A halt to hostilities. [Archive]

Malice

09-17-2002, 09:30 PM

In light of recent events and with the aid of a small ooc chat with a good man, I am calling for an immediate, if only temporary halt to the hostilites between the clan of Fallen, and the alliance against them. There are several reasons we have come to this conclusion.
1) The mixture of IC and OOC in the rules set forth by the three clan leaders at the begining of the war made for a difficult understanding as to whether they were IC or OOC.
2) The now apparent shortcoming of these rules.
3) The taxing of patience, and fun the war was having for almost all involved, and even those not involved.

I have notified and will continue to notify all members of the clan of Grendels Chosen, about this new truce. I ask that not only the Fallen, but all those active in the war please consider this alternative. The truce is temporary and it will be worked.
In the future when new rules of ettiquete are drawn up, I would like to see a few changes.
1) Including a much larger number of monsters than just three clan leaders. Including part of the hierarchy of each clan, and wandering monsters as well.
2) Clear statment whether they are OOC rules of ettiquete, or IC rules.
3) Much more feasable and thought out rules, and definition of terms. [For example, the member of fallen I was talking to said that some of their members idle for long periods, and I know that this is the case in our clan as well.]

Finally, this is in no way a surrender, or end to the war for anyone. It is a truce, but one that should be honored until a better system can be put into place. As such, I think it would be a fairly nice gesture from all sides not to be rubbing things in peoples faces, or run around shouting that one clan or another has lost the war. Also I think a stop to large scale IC and OOC flaming would provide a nice little break.

Ciciro

CornFed

09-17-2002, 09:42 PM

I couldn't be happier to see the ball rolling...

I too have posted to the Fallen... and will pass the word...

Now would be a good time to get the WM's invovled...

Also, I’d like to apologize to Ciciro/Malice… It seems I was mistaken about your personal character… and for that I’m sorry…

Bones

09-18-2002, 05:11 AM

I have a few rules for the war, if anyone's interested...

Merlynson

09-18-2002, 07:48 AM

Cicero, you know my character has a high respect for Malice. But I'm not sure how I cannot speak for Pishaw as a character here. What I'm trying to say is that the OOC/IC mix for making rules is difficult. As this is OOC my comments will try to stay OOC.

My main point is that I think you will have to be very careful including WMs in this agreement. Personally (or am I being Pishaw again?) I don't like SMs making rules for WMs. I don't even think I'd agree with a WM making rules for me either; that would mean I was in the WM Clan. WMs are different from SMs.

I also feel that this truce has come about because of Antigone's ingenuity. Could it be that the Chosen and other SM lairs fear a WM/SM builder attack? Remember this is OOC, I'm asking a question, not raising a challenge. But if it is, then be clear about it, although it could cause a new, divisif relationship between SMs and WMs.

As it happens, the Chosen have generally created good bonds with WMs. They have shown unusual understanding of the benefits of WMs - trade, etc. But I warn against writing down rules that will be at best unenforseable.

Merlynson

CornFed

09-18-2002, 08:00 AM

I can appreciate Antigone’s ingenuity, however, this has very little to do with the WM raids… As described above… there are issues with the SM war rules… which need resolved… If everyone is not having fun with this SM war, then there is a problem… the rules are a place to start… ;)

By stating that, now would be a good time for WM to get involved, I was opening a door for those who were upset that they weren’t involved… and no… the SM’s wont make rules for the WM’s to follow…

Also we need OOC community policies… one of which to deal with raiding when no one is awake… (this goes both ways…)

Hope that clears up some of this.

Merlynson

09-18-2002, 10:19 AM

One thought about clan members not being awake - You have to adderess time differences. This is not a US world completely. It is unfair to penalise the rest of the world from attacking when they are awake.

Please don't miss my point that one WM or all WMs but one can make rules for WM.

Players choose to be WMs for good reasons... sometimes.

Malice

09-18-2002, 01:51 PM

You are free to express your IC thoughts about the topic here as this is closely tied IC and OOC. The reason I posted in the OOC forums is because this is not a strictly IC truce, there are problems with the arrangement of rules, and fair play that need to be worked out OOC. Some people can't play much during the day. Some people live in other time zones. Everything needs to be taken into account that wasn't taken the first time around, and it needs to be discussed on a much larger scale than the first terms were done on. It is likely that in the near future we will have an ooc meeting for everyone interested to participate in, and try to lay out some guidelines, for the community as a whole.

Barbarosa

09-18-2002, 03:26 PM

Come on, this is a game. There is no reason for Player v Player bull. We are having a war and personally I have better things to do. Get over it an move along on the game.

Hopefully we have all learned something from the war and can move to better game play. Find a solution and end this war if only to start another one that is better defined. This is a war game so there will be wars, BUT KEEEP THEM char v char and clan v clan.

I took part in both of the dismantlings of Fallen. The first one with my warlord Malice and the second at the invitation of Antigone. I was the only chosen there at the second dismantling and considering that Fallen had revenged itself against me while I was asleep and destroyed some of Chosen I did not feel out of line. Still don't. Perhaps Fallen will not be so quick to desparage the premier builder in all Uthgol.:D

The thing I believe we should all remember here is simple. This is a game played in our computer world where we need to have a lot of fun. Things said IC'ly should be taken with a grain of salt and play should always be enhanced by IC actions. When it stops being fun it's time to move along and do something else.

Let's get it together and start over. Unlike RL you can always wipe the board clean and make our world whatever we want it to be. My vote, make it fun.

Lurker

09-18-2002, 03:33 PM

actually, I find this war going as i more or less expected. It's not a precisely RP enforced environment, so there is a lot ooc/ic/mixed mudslinging, I would say not bad for a first war in Gold GR.

Barbarosa

09-19-2002, 07:28 AM

Well the board is clean and Fallen was in our lair this morning to mark it. Only problem is they forgot to tell everyone else the truce was over. Forget what I said above. Until Fallen is wiped from the game Uthgol will just have to live with war. That appears to be the way Fallen wants it so they may have it. The only reason they wanted a truce was to repair their lair and mark ours. These people scream about any infraction of others merely to gain advantage. I will no longer listen to their propaganda nor will I grant them quarter.

Barbarosa
Head Buildter of Chosen
Chosen Buildter Guildt Master

Merlynson

09-20-2002, 03:20 PM

Apparently this has been blamed on one individual, bloodstorm, which shows the how OOC and IC get confused. I welcome rules on IC and OOC discrimination,

But in playing OOC how easy is that? Say a WM is treated unfairly by a SM, how likely is it that a clan will support the WM? In my experience, there has at least been lip service. But does a WM support a clan? - maybe. Individual WMs make their own choice based on how clans have treated them - or for more bizarre reasons. So how can you regulate?

Most WMs don't care about truce. Their reason for attacking Failen is because of the Failen's attitude, or for destroying their dens. Sedicious has declared war against humanoids, not just a clan. Anyone listening in the Shrine knows of Failen's secret war against humanoids.

As a WM I say that I can wander wherever I like. If a clan stops me, I will gather support where I can.

Good luck with your meeting. I will contribute. But there is no representitive for WMs.

Malice

09-20-2002, 03:51 PM

You make a good point Merlynson. Wandering monster obviously don't abide by rules of conflict and such. They can partake in rules of ettiquite, like not attacking a player while he/she is being attacked by uglies and such, but obviously WM's or anyone else for that matter do not have to abide by that unspoken law.

The GM's and other Admin that designed the game took into account many possibilities. That is the reason why WM's are not given the choice to building as a skill. Because a wanderer with building would be a *huge* threat to everyone.

The game balances out in a lot of issues if it is RP enforced. For example:

WM attacks a clan. He kills everyone memeber of the clan on sight. Might raid the lair a little bit if he is strong enough. That is the limit to his power.

The SM's in the clan retaliate by raiding, and/or destroying his den, and teaming up to kill him, or bringing grunts to help.

The problem comes along when freelance or temporary SM's are made to aid WM's. In which case you get situations like this:

WM and buddy SM builder go and raid a lair. After carrying away all the resources, the SM builder destroys the lair.

That means that a tier three WM and a newbie builder make a very menacing team together. If a WM is acting with a clan that has guidelines to follow, the situation is much different then.

My suggestion is that when this meeting is held it be held with two standards.
1) Set rules of ettiquette. Just a few things that are curtious to people in the game, that don't have to be followed, but make the game more fun. Breaking these would either need a very good IC reason, or would bring a lot of IC disdain to the offending character.

and 2) Somewhat more elaborate, rules for clan vrs clan conflict. So that a clan that is attacking with the aid of a WM on a specific raid would either make the WM follow the rules for the duration of that raid, or pull back support from the WM when the rules are about to be compromised.
There is much more that can be said about each of those standards, I think it should all be covered in the meeting however.

Ciciro

CornFed

09-20-2002, 05:48 PM

Any idea when the meeting might be… I’m available in the evenings after 8:00 EST

Malice

09-20-2002, 06:07 PM

I can be around 8 PM EST as well...I'm not really sure when it will be however... Maybe some else could step up to help organize it as I have a fairly full schedual.

Lurker

09-20-2002, 10:09 PM

came to my attention that Legion does not see itself as being part of this if temporary Truce. Can someone clear this up?

masterz

09-20-2002, 10:36 PM

For one, the truce was thought up without the Legion. (or at least any of my input) Two, I stopped reading the forums all together about a week ago because of all the OOC babbling, bitching, moaning and groaning that was making me sick. To try and keep our end of the war as IC as possible I tried to ignore the forum rambling therefore knew nothing of this truce until today. So, some of my clan knew about this truce and some, like me did not because I havent even logged onto the forums for a week.
Lurker, I agree totally, not shabby for a first step in GR gold in the war department.
And while it wasnt communticated very well, now that I know of it I will support it. Perhaps some of the bickering will die down in the meantime and better guidelines can be set. So basically thumbs up for the truce on my part.

~MasterZ~
~Chasm the Phoenix~
~now ending this post, hoping to not have to read anymore flaming~

Redric

09-20-2002, 11:43 PM

*laughs* I dont care about anything anymore, I dont care if they call me a coward anymore, they think they are good, which they are, but if they dont care about honor neither will I. I dont care if they say they didn't or they do, because I could careless now. I will do anything in my power to kill them, lie cheat and steal. They have to resort to cheap tricks to win, or even stay alive, so I will use tricks. I dont care what they say, or if anyone from Fallen scows at me or whatever, thats all you do to anyone who says anything bad about you, you are always perfect, you always do everything right, well bloodstorm was a part of your clan when actions happened, simple, I dont care for reasons, Fallen wants to make themselfs look good, it could have been a plot for I care, except I dont. You think your safe, but I will play dirty then.

Merlynson

09-21-2002, 03:30 AM

Re: Meeting

8pm EST is, I think, 1 am BST. I would like to be included in meeting but would need a couple of days warning. Meeting at Abode, I suppose.

Malice

09-21-2002, 04:20 AM

I play at odd times for the time zone I am in (EST). When the meeting is held, I will be more than happy to hold a duplicate meeting at a time more appropriate for those of you playing in other areas of the world. Also I will take notes of all of the most important points from each of the two or three meetings and post them here.

CornFed

09-21-2002, 06:30 AM

Sorry about that Masterz, It was my understand that Galenth was spoken to by Gruloch… I didn’t feel in Bains place to go to Legion and explain what Malice and Bain had talked about. Malice can speak for Chosen… Bain probably shouldn’t speak for the Fallen. Hindsight, I probably could have at least let you know Gruloch would be by to talk about it… Again I’m sorry… Another thing, which needs to be addressed, formal parley…

And I’m not apposed to having the meeting at a different time… however my playing time is governed by my son… his bed time is 8:00 PM EST… so really anytime after that until 8:00 AM EST is fine with me…

Merlynson

09-21-2002, 04:01 PM

The importance of this meeting is that everyone speaks for themselves. It is primarily IC as I understand. As Ciciro suggests, it needs to include views of all levels of each clan. It is about improving play of the game.

I have reservations. Again, representations of WMs. But also freedom of low level SMs and newbies to speak. Also - most importantly - my own belief that Uthgol primarily Chaotic and that the implementation of rules is Ugly trait (sorry, slipping into OOC again).

I would suggest advertising meeting when dates agreed well in advance, also a clear message about what it's about. Give consideration to how message reaches WMs and time-isolated SMs.

tjnet

09-23-2002, 01:54 PM

ok i am legion but just to tell you i am not speaking for my clan i'm speaking for me, lurky (to my knoledge) has been going around legion lair abought 3 times on 1 day i do now know abought any others, we come to beleave that he might have been in are lair for are traps have been disarmed are traps and the only one around are lair has been lurky i am not saying to end the truce BUT lurky has been around are lair and there is a good chance lurky disarmed are traps so he can attack us i am wanting to know what lurky is doing around are lair and what he is doing disarmaing are traps lurky may be trying to disarm other traps on other lairs and is trying to get the up and up on us with a nice little suprise. once again i am not speaking for my clan i am speaking for myself

Merlynson

09-23-2002, 03:06 PM

I got IC and OOC mixed... I think
:)

Dermot

09-23-2002, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by tjnet
ok i am legion but just to tell you i am not speaking for my clan i'm speaking for me, lurky (to my knoledge) has been going around legion lair abought 3 times on 1 day i do now know abought any others, we come to beleave that he might have been in are lair for are traps have been disarmed are traps and the only one around are lair has been lurky i am not saying to end the truce BUT lurky has been around are lair and there is a good chance lurky disarmed are traps so he can attack us i am wanting to know what lurky is doing around are lair and what he is doing disarmaing are traps lurky may be trying to disarm other traps on other lairs and is trying to get the up and up on us with a nice little suprise. once again i am not speaking for my clan i am speaking for myself

This post hurt my head. *cry*

kaoslace

09-23-2002, 04:27 PM

Sweet Grendel! My brain is fried.... can somebody translate that for me?

dunstvangeet

09-23-2002, 04:37 PM

Tranlation:

Ok, I am the Legion. However, I am not speaking for the Legion, I'm speaking for Me.

Lurky (to my knoledge) has been going around legion lair abought 3 times on 1 day. Though, I do now know about any others, we have come to beleive that he might have been in are lair because our traps have been disarmed are traps and the only one around are lair has been Lurky. I am not saying to end the truce BUT Lurky has been around are lair and there is a good chance Lurky disarmed are traps so he can attack us. I am wanting to know what Lurky is doing around our lair and what he is doing disarmaing our traps. Lurky may be trying to disarm other traps on other lairs and is trying to get the upper hand on us with a nice little suprise. Once again, I am not speaking for my clan; I am speaking for myself.

Forsooth

09-23-2002, 05:08 PM

From another Legion member but non-spokesman:

Alternatively, Lurkeus could be hanging around the lair to discuss the future of the war. How else could he contact us?

And it's not like the Fallen lack teleporter links with our lair anyway. :)

[Fellow clan members, I sympathize with your edginess. But this OOC thread is dealing with the OOC truce. I suggest that posting questionable allegations here isn't particularly helpful.]

tjnet

09-23-2002, 05:09 PM

sorry i was typing that fast i was outside on the game while i was typing this several monsters atked me(as what is happining now cya)

Barbarosa

09-23-2002, 08:11 PM

Just an Aside everyone, not all of our players use English as a first language. I doubt many of us write in second or third languages well and maybe we should all think about that before criticizing another persons communication skills. If you can make it out, work with it.

Pender

09-23-2002, 08:33 PM

Well said, Barbarosa. Has this meeting taken place yet? If not, when will it occur? I would think a large amount of us would like to see an end to this.

Pender

09-23-2002, 08:34 PM

On another note, if another war is to break out, could someone post the rules? A few of us were lost on that last one...

CornFed

09-24-2002, 08:59 AM

Okay here is a Scheduled time and date for the meeting, and a very preliminary set of rules and policies, which can be hatched out in this thread to hopefully shorten the length of the meeting.

Friday Sept. 27 @ 9:00 pm EST (Game Time)

Items to discuss:

Total Game Policies:

Lair/Den raiding
Newbie Status
Alliances

Standard Rules of War

IC and OOC definitions
Raid definition
Duration restrictions
Size restrictions
Frequency restrictions

If you have any suggestions for any of these items or wish to have additional items added please do so here…

CornFed

09-24-2002, 12:11 PM

*BLUSH*

Oops, maybe we shouldn't compete with the GM's on that day...

Pender

09-24-2002, 08:10 PM

As far as raids go, I have an idea.

In addition to whatever we decide for size, and duration, could we make a rule that during a predetermined time (let's say 6:00pm to 9:00pm EST on Saturday for example), any size and any duration are permissable? We could even break it down to say the first half Fallen is on offense, Chosen/Legion are on defense, second half reversed. Those who aren't in a time zone that allows them to log between those times would still be able to raid with other rules we set. I realize this would be kind of wierd as a in game concept...

Also, could we possiably schedule a battle (outside of the lairs), like our own event (GMs not involved, of course)? I think that might be kind of cool.

And finally, :) I think we should make a rule against destroying rooms inside a lair that you can put favors in to (such as arenas, magic fountains, etc.). This would really piss off a lot a people OOC and IC.

Redric

09-24-2002, 09:37 PM

Really, would you like me to put on a dress and dance on a table? It is a war, which tends to mean...no rules. Thats a war, hostiles, those tend to have "rules" if you call them that. If people didn't destroy parts of the lair, that hold favors, then the building would continue to grow, and a raid would mean nothing. They are just minior skirmishes.

Pender

09-24-2002, 10:10 PM

Your right. Wars don't have rules. It's a match of wills. If your stronger, you win. If your opponent is asleep, you win.

Leads to really crappy gaming though, doesn't it?

A game is meant to be fun. If you start at ground zero everytime you log, do you enjoy rebuilding everything you worked so hard to make?

Lets say you were playing a game on another platform, say like Syphon Filter. If the enemy was allowed to kill you and take all your weapons while you weren't playing, would that be fun?

Just a thought ;)

Forsooth

09-24-2002, 10:27 PM

Some clans want rules so that wars will be more fun. If that doesn't appeal to you, you don't have to join those clans. (For this reason though, I suggest limiting the discussion to inter-clan war. What right have we to make decisions on anything else?)

For inter-clan warfare, I'm for constant low-level hostilties. If we're going to have a major battle, I like Pender's idea: It should be scheduled, with its own set of rules.

Let me toss an idea out for low-level hostilities:

Above-ground assault: Up to 4 monsters working together to attack near a clan's lair. They must leave the area after the group makes 4 monster kills and is no longer in combat. Monsters that die may not return unless they can resurrect - and then only once. Once the assault ends, the clan leading the assault must wait a half-hour before participating in another assault or raid.

Lair raid: Up to 2 monsters and their grunts working together to invade a lair. Only SMs may attack together, and the enemy side must have a major leader awake. Attackers are free to gather resources, but may only destroy one non-vital room. (A room is vital if it's absence could trap a monster, or it has at least 25 favors invested.) Monsters that die may not return unless they can resurrect - and then only once. Once the raid ends, the clan leading the raid must wait a half-hour before participating in another assault or raid. The raiders themselves must wait 12 hours before joining another raid.

Pender

09-24-2002, 10:40 PM

I think that sounds alright, except for the part about vital rooms with 25 favors spent. How would you know? Why don't we leave those rooms alone altogether?

Malice

09-25-2002, 04:19 AM

I think any and every war that is fought in game should consist of some understandings between the players of both clans. OOC understandings. I also don't pretend to think that one set of rules can be used fo *every* war or situation and that rules should be flexible but still lay out very clearly what is and is not acceptable.

Here is a hypothetical situation. Malice has a pure humanoid clan, Gruloch has of course a pure undead clan. I want to have a constant state of hostility towards the Fallen with my clan. So that I don't step on anyones toes, and I don't drag the Fallen into a war they don't agree with and have no chance to turn down or alter or what not I talk to Gruloch OOCly. We come up with these rules:

1) No lair destruction whatsoever. This is not something that I think would fit into every war in GR, but I plan our war to go on maybe forever. So would it be fun for anyone if every day we both woke up to broken and segemented lairs? I don't think so.

2) No spamming the forums. This war is intended to be a long lasting rivalry. If every day we log in there is another forum about how one side cheated, or slandering characters, its going to loose its appeal very soon, along with pissing off people who have nothing to do with the war.

3) If a raid comes to a standstill with no progress, or if one clan is just standing at the lair entrance unable to enter because of traps, for more than 45 minutes, the clan has to retire from that raid. I think it's pretty obvious that if nothing happens after 45 minutes nothing is going to happen except annoying people.

4) Each lair will have a storage room on one of the first two floors that will be full with the opposing sides caste resource. Carrying away the loot signifies a successful raid. Since we aren't destroying lairs we need something to show progress and have a goal set.

5) You may kill an enemy 3 times unprovoked every hour, and then you may not kill him unless he attacks you first, or there is a raid from either side, for another hour. And this may only be done four times a day. This means any member from the clan will not die more than 12 times a day if he/she chooses not to take an extremely active stance in the war.

Now those may seem like limiting rules, or they may not. Regardless everyone in the Fallen would have to agree to them for them to be passed, and everyone in my clan would have to as well. If anyone has something to add or alter it should be taken into consideration. This war is hypothectially one that has no end to it, there are no winners or losers of the war so we want to make sure that everyone gets the most fun out of it for the very long life planned for it.

However say I was going to wage war on Grendels Chosen. If I want to actually have an end to this war, I would not agree to no destroying of the lair. Destroying a lair is the most effective way, besides harrassing characters and a clan into submission, to make a clan surrender, call for peace, or win a war. If Chosen has a training room with 1000 favors invest into it, and I know that destroying it will give me a significant advantage by make their single role warriors less effective, I'm sure as hell going to make that a primary target and I would expect the same thing from any clan I was at war with. Just because you are imbuing a structure doesnt mean it should not be attacked. If anything that gives more of a reason to attack it. You want to show the other clan they have nothing to gain and everything to lose from the war you are fighting and destroying a structure that is heavily imbued is one hell of a way to get the point across real quick.

kaoslace

09-25-2002, 08:30 AM

you have your own clan now Malice?

Malice

09-25-2002, 01:54 PM

That was just an example.

Forsooth

09-25-2002, 03:18 PM

Rather than try to generate rules for all occasions, let's just work on the Chosen/Fallen/Legion conflict. If people like what they see, I'm sure the rules will be adapted to other situations.

As for Malice's particular ideas:

I'm not crazy about having no lair destruction. While I'm not a builder, I suspect that they're looking for things to do. As long as they only destroy some outlying rooms without favors invested, what real harm does it do?

If there are no forum messages, how will we deal with accidental or intentional violaters? Let me suggest a less extreme solution: Keep IC insults out of the OOC complaints. I don't think there's anything wrong with an OOC message: "R the Chimera (intentionally vague) kept coming back. Does he know about the rules?" Certainly the Legion benefited from a few gentle hints.

While I can live with time limits on above-ground assaults, I don't want that to be the only real limit. We get into boring situations: Clan A comes in with overwhelming force; Clan B sits in its entrance. Yawn. If there's a strict limit on kills, clan B can chase Clan A away with a few assaults - and everyone has more fun.

Having lairs built to facilitate raids is a bit too OOC for me. Also, resources won't work as a scoring system. Between uglies and building expenses, loot just doesn't stay put. If there's going to be scoring, I suggest limiting it to scheduled battles.

As for an endpoint, I'd suggest linking it to how many scheduled battles are won. But don't underestimate the power of multiple raids. Under the previous rules, the Legion might well have surrendered in a few more weeks - without any lair destruction.

Well, I think I've given enough space to my views. ;) Any more contributors?

Lurker

09-25-2002, 04:11 PM

took me 2 hours to rebuild what was destroyed in the last couple raids. And out of those 2 hours, most of it was waiting for right members to wake up and fighting off others who tried to stop the reconstruction.

My point is, if there is no favor infused structure destruction involved, then it will be truly endless and to be honest...quiet useless. Now I understand that if a clan exists only to fight other clans and actually means...to fight forever, it might be fun. But you should remember that in every competition there is a reward of victory. And what kind of victory can there be if it goes forever...

Malice

09-25-2002, 04:12 PM

Just to clear things up. I talked to Grulochs player about that fictional situation OOC.

The war we were talking about was, as I described it, a war of rivalry, not of broken agreements or even actually declared war. The war was supposed to mimic the kind of war we would have had before the uglies came. We wanted to fabricate a situation where you actually see, IC humanoids pitted against undead. So as such a rivalry we don't want an end to the war, but also we don't want to war to have no advantages to it.

The way we plan on dealing with breach of rules is set completely OOC, through forum messages or messanger services.

About making the lairs facilitate the raids, all that it requires is one storage room on the first or second floor....every clan that I know of has at least one storage room on one of those floors.

The idea is not to take away the fun from either side, and to be able to keep the war going for as long as we want it to go. As I said if we intended to have an end to the war, I would not applied half the rules. A war that I mean to win is pretty much no rules.

Merlynson

09-25-2002, 04:48 PM

I haven't seen anything in the rules so far that apply to WMs. That's good.

May I suggest a trophy. Some Grendel thing that is kept by the victorious clan - or stolen by a WM - instead of just resources.

Malice

09-25-2002, 04:55 PM

There was one rule myself and Gruloch agreed upon regarding wanderers. They would have no place in the war as aiding as allies.

Dermot

09-25-2002, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Merlynson
May I suggest a trophy. Some Grendel thing that is kept by the victorious clan - or stolen by a WM - instead of just resources.

This would be something good for the GMs to implement. An item that gives a bonus to a clan. It should be easily lootable from any corpse and shouldn't be allowed to be carried lower than a certain level. The better the item the closer to ground level it must be.

Pender

09-25-2002, 08:38 PM

[reads Malice's rules post]

Okay. And on your way out you can take a few items from the lair entrance. Help us clean the crap out of there :)

Malice

09-25-2002, 08:49 PM

Sure thing...leave a few teleportation potions and some good quality armor. ;)

Arcano

09-25-2002, 09:06 PM

When some one found a clan they should receive a banner of his clan.

the banner could give a bonus to the clan members and should be put at the throne room or at a trophy room.
others clans could steal the banner and put into their throhe/throphy rooms and receive a bonus (lower than the own banner gives) for it.

if a clan lose his banner he could fight back to get it or buy at a high price with ressources.

is this what you was thinkning about?

Dermot

09-25-2002, 09:42 PM

Perhaps.

Perhaps there could be an item which is given to every clan leader upon creation of that clan, as you said. And would have to be restricted to a depth of one level to prevent certain abuses. It could give mild bonuses to every facet of clan life, but can be taken, as you said, and would give lesser bonuses to other clans. The banner may grant well-sized bonuses to the bearer.

It is dropped when the carrier dies or logs off. If it's dropped in the water, it will be returned to the lair's entrance. (If there is no entrance than it will be returned to the leader the next time s/he logs on. A clan is nothing without a lair anyway.) If it is dropped on the ground, it will be returned after a certain period of time. The leader would then be able to determine the holder of this banner or the clan whose lair contains it. If none does then it will be said that it is in the field. If a clan is annihilated, all the players have given up and left it, then the banner dissappears. This system would allow for minor skirmishes which show quick results.

To prevent a further abuse... (A clan may still exist if there is only one member in it) it will be neccessary for the banner to be returned after a certain amount of time. This time could increase as the strength of the clan from whence it came increases. Makes it a little easier on the smaller clans.

Nothing less than a permanent game of CTF I see here. :}

Every clan should be warring with every other in some form or another anyway. (The reason we Guardians aren't at war is because nobody has yet stepped up. Some clans will inevitably be more aggresive than others. I'm sure it will happen sometime...soon...maybe...*sigh* We Chimera are patient monsters.)

What I had envisioned originally are event-derived 'artifacts'. The Fallen have quite the collection if I understand correctly. Objects such as tomes, thrones, or whatever could be fought for between clans.