think

[illabrat]

Okay. Since I've been challenged, going to step up. Is think a venue for roleplaying? If it is or isn't, should it be?

My view is that it's primarily to meet people, as well bring attention to happenings. Any drawn out proceedings should be done in person.

[Celtor]

Way I see it, Think is rather too complex to pidgeon-hole as any one specific thing. It is multi-functional: it serves as a Midlight equivalent to 911, as a way to meet and greet people, as a channel for bartering and trade, as a vehicle for some instances of extended role-play, and as one of the more unifying aspects of the game.

The question should be: What should Think be? Should it continue to be all of the above? Or should it's function be tailored more towards one or the other?

I have my opinions, but I want to reserve them until there has been further discussion :cool:

Celtor, the "lets discuss this rationally folks" tec addict

[Brassy]

Think is not a barterservice

Although it used that way. It was stated long ago in another forum far away that the sale of items over think is frowned on.

Think is currently the lazy mans tool. *notes that she is guilty of this* I was wandering around the Castle out of curiousity and they have these couriers on every corner. You ask for a scroll and make a message and ask to have it delivered to someone..and they get it. I really like that. Perhaps a service could be purchased that is similar to this that will help us eliminate the abuse of think.

Just my thoughts :)

[Metharus]

Yes, I too have spent time in the castle and am really fond of the 'scroll service'... I kina like getting mail :D

As for the Think. I think that people should be able to pick who they hear in their heads. Like an Ignore command in a chat room. You could ignore the idiots who scream and yell and nag, and if you dont want to hear any of the bidding going on, just ignore it. That is just my 2 sens.

[illabrat]

Well, I'd like if think was mainly used for contacting people. I have problems when I see people roleplaying over it for two reasons.

The first is that in any roleplaying situation unless someone is giving thier consent you shouldn't involve them in what's happening. Not everyone is interested in what I'm interested in doing, they've got thier own stories and such they are playing through. In person they can walk away or ignore me. It's very difficult to ignore think. It's frustrating when your gameworld is being controlled by someone you can't get away from because you're looking for someone or waiting for something to happen. No matter how close to your character you're behaving, think is a tool to add to the enjoyment of the game. When you're compromising the enjoyment of others, you need to stop.

Secondly, a lot of roleplaying involves conflict. Many of the commands in TEC are geared toward causing and resolving conflict, from the social commands to the combat system. If you're roleplaying a conflict in think you remove all these and limit the options of those involved to a few possibilities. This is especially annoying when people use think to overcome social standing, physical characteristics and the alliances of the characters involved.

We stay in character over think to maintain the tone of the gameworld. Doesn't mean think's a playground. Am I being unreasonable, irrational or unrealistic? What does everyone else think?

[Jolee]

Okay, most everyone knows I've always been a proponent of think. I've rationized how being telepathic can be IC.

Does that mean I've never found it annoying? No, I think we have all been tired of it. When I've had enough or want to slow down the scroll, I toggle-think and rest my mind. But, for the most part, it keeps me company. My main character often hunts alone if her husband isn't awake or she isn't on some mission. My woody is a hermit for the most part, and my whip'er doesn't have any friends. So a lot of the time, even if I'm not actively thinking, it does keep me company and keeps me from feeling like I'm all alone in the world -- a rather spooky feeling.

I'm not sure what you're getting at on the conflict part of it, but if you've ever listened to Skye and Amorine, Anya and ..everyone else, Kadagan and Hortance, or Shalini and Scaranthian, then you've heard plenty of conflict. *snicker* Frankly, I think its a good thing that these folks didn't meet in person. Most times it isn't wise, let alone practical. Then you've got your conversations between the constables and thieves. All quite entertaining..at least to me. :p

Truthfully, I don't think it is that big of a deal anymore. With annoyance characters hopefully becoming a thing of the past coupled with the fatique drain for thinking, the number of thoughts aloud have dropped.

I agree, though, tis no place for bartering/auctioning, and if it is practical to save your conversation for meeting in person, then we should try to do so.

[Metharus]

Metharus is usually always thinking, just incase something happens. He likes to know what is going on in the city, or other places. The only time he stops listening is when it gets too outta hand, or he is doing something where he doesn't need the distraction.

[Tayron]

Pretty much the same here.... My main characters relatively anti-social (though will ramble his head off given the chance) so is alone more often then not. Unless I really need the quiet, I keep it open, listen to whats going on, and even occasionally actually saying something...

[illabrat]

When conflict takes place in think you only have three ways to deal with it: trying to ignore it, responding or turning off think. The physical and social aspects of the game are ignored, and it usually degenerates into name calling and insults. Yeah, I know I'm awful for insulting people in think myself but I'm trying to get better.

In person, conflict leaves you with a hell of a lot more options. It goes from conversation, to action. Plus you're not forcing anyone else to share it.

It's cool if you enjoy listening to it, but not everyone does and it's as much their channel as anyone elses.

[Jolee]

Illabrat, you say the physical and social aspects of the game are ignored? You mean by listening to it in our thoughts as opposed to being forced to stop what we are doing to go find these people who are not likely to fight if they were face to face (because duels are illegal and deadly) anyway is detracting from those aspects? Not likely, if we enjoy being alone in the first place, we probably will stay that way. I find I'm perfectly content MOST of the time with the socializing in my head. Parties, musters, and auctions, and some events being the exceptions.

[illabrat]

'Action' doesn't mean fighting. There's a lot of physical intimidation that goes on even in friendly encounters in the game. But in think this is all ignored.

And I'm not saying you should drop everything and go looking for someone who's harassing you in think. They shouldn't even be doing it in the first place. If they want to interact with you, they ask where you are and find you. I am so sick of listening to people talk about how such and such is dead and it's such a pity, or girl-a and boy-b kissing or fighting, or someone accusing someone else of being a thief. These things should be done in person. If you can't do it in person, because you're afraid of them and thier friends you either shut up about it or find people to support you.

It comes down to this: when you do something in think you're forcing everyone in the city to participate. No one should do that.

[Leminarflow]

Yep, illabrat's right, and i'll go even further.. ELIMINATE think..its the best option:)
i know the chatters will be sad, but if you want to chat, meet in person or go to a chat room

Leminarflow

[Shade]

When there were far fewer of us... like 10... (yeah yeah I know I'm dating myself:) think was a great way to handle light coversation and simply not be alone.

I find I don't mind people saying hello or goodbye. I do mind people whining when no one greets them.. but then I mind people whining for ANY reason.

I detest auctions and bartering, and as Brassy points out, it isn't supposed to happen in think.

I also dislike the excessive emoting in think. If you have horseplay with people.. do it in person.

As a tool to arrange meetings, its unparalelled.

As a medium to have lover's quarrels, and other conflict...I don't mind the opening salvos.. but I don't want to watch the entire war.

Some people can have conversations in think that are a delight to eavesdrop on... Andrew and his pink stola or Andrew on the evils of bunnies usually leaves me laughing too hard to see bandits approach.

Naming thieves in think... see whining.

I'd hate to see think killed entirely, since the good is very good. But I am the first to agree the bad is appalling.

I guess... I'd like to hope that people could be even more scrupulous in their RP when using think then they are in person. I know for a fact that I judge whether or not I want to know someone based on how they conduct themselves in such a public setting.

[Jakester2000]

I tend to agree with illabrat,Shade, and Leminarflow for the most part. I would have full support for a courier system like Castle Marrach has. That seems like it gives more rp options than Think ever has. I always had a hard time trying to rp think. As it is 90% of the time I keep it off anyhow. I don't really see why it couldn't be taken out all together. People who want to auction items, post it in an inn.
Maybe only the Aux could have think. And newcommers for only one month or something. Let me just end in saying, courier servants, courier servants, courier servants. :)


"Nod, nod. Wink, wink. Say no more"

[Vladmir]

I myself like Shade's 'be more scrupulous in the use of think' idea, rather than getting rid of it.

I keep think off most of the time too, but I like that it's there, and I think it should stay.

[Annatar]

We already have a very carry like system in the game, the cadae. My personal opinion is that while a messengar system in game allowing you to contact anyone IG would be cool, it would also be a tad bit unrealistic for TEC. TEC takes place inside a large city, plus the surronding area, not a castle, neither are our characters, generally, people of privilage who could afford to hire someone to do something of this nature. Also a messanger isn't going to go hand someone a message in the middle of the battlefields or anywhere else remotly dangerous. *imagine himself fighting brutes. Messanger walks in, 'A message for you sir.'* In the end, I just don't see a messanger system with the same coverage, working within TEC.

[Jakester2000]

That could be worked around though Annatar. A courier could be waiting outside the battlefields, or in septima's. Coded so they don't enter hunting area's. Now speaking on the wealth side of it, were you at the last auction? If a persone can buy a quiver for 7 talents, a hat for 4 talents, or a bed for around 30 talents, I think many would be able to afford the minor cost of sending a message to someone. It should be at least considered. I would use it whether think stayed or went.

[Jolee]

Yeah..I can just see a GM sending out 200 couriers for an event. As I said, if ya don't like think, then leave it off. Like you said, you do 90% of the time anyway, so stop trying to get it jerked for those of us who don't abuse it and want it to stay. I agree with Vladmir.

And I'm sick of justifying spending money at an auction. I chose to spend it at an auction, not sending messages. I'm really rethinking sending a whole year's worth of money to stay with Skotos. If think is eliminated, I'm not sure I want to stay. And the continual ooc bitching over this auction is petty and frankly I'm getting tired of it.

And cadaes? Most of you wiill rue the day you got them.

[Tayron]

I also have to agree... Its not like think is hard to turn off if you're getting sick of it, or never liked to begin with. If ye don't like it, just turn it off, forget it ever existed to begin with, and let those that don't mind it have it.

[Jakester2000]

Oh, get off your high horse Jolee. I'm not trying to jerk anything. If my comment on the wealth of players is ooc, so be it. Easy as pie, nuff said.

Hehe, and Cassies rocker would be a "low horse":D

[Leminarflow]

Newp, think should be eliminated period:) Forget fancy arguments, i'm just going straight to what should be, cause i'm all knowing. *nods to himself*

Leminarflow

[Jolee]

Jakester, thhhbbbbbbbbt!

I'll borrow Cassie's rocking horse ;)

[amberlyn]

Letter carriers is a good idea and all.. and it works in Castle Marrach.. but Castle Marrach is a MUCH smaller game. Good luck finding someone to get a message to if they are in the vale or the sands.. its a long walk and you cant be sure the person is out there if you cant think to ask where they are.Theres alot of people who dont spend all their time sitting around the city. I agree with Shalini.. i like think.. when it gets annoying for ya turn it off.

[illabrat]

Nope, ain't gunna happen. If the reason think exists is to contact other players, then telling someone to stop listening to think is equivilant of telling them they aren't welcome in the game. It's a tool to improve everyone's experiance. No one has the right to deprive anyone else of its service.

Just be more careful with it. Everyone's listening to you.

-Everyone- includes every worker, prostitute and patrician in the city. Would you stand in front of a crowd and break up with your girlfriend over a PA? It's the same thing.

And if you want to socialise, get some friends together and go to a bar. It's not like there's a lack of them. And it'd be cool if people actually started frequenting them. One of the things I found a let down was that no matter how long I sat in the supposedly busy common room of the Wayfarer there as no one there to interact with. The game would only benefit from this.

If you wanna socialise and train, take someone with you. If you wanna train alone, don't punish the whole city for your choices.

[Jolee]

But you're saying you don't want to be contacted, Illabrat. That's why we suggested toggling it off. Not to exclude you. And when I train alone, I'm not thinking aloud, but listening to think. That is what I (and others) don't want to be depriived of. It keeps us company.

Can't train in bars, either. Brawling skills have long been disabled. :o) And anyways, Rachina, my favorite bartender, frowns on it. :(

[drackill]

What would be good is if the staff implement a sorta posting system. Perhaps you could look in the crowd for a messanger or just some poor person. You could then hand them a parchment and the cost depends on the NPC or just have a set amount. Then a few minutes later this messanger could apear to the other person and hand them the message (depending on where they are or if they are awake) This would make it more realistic I guess.

Thieves would have an easier job 2 :) To do any proper stealing and have more of a chance of not getting your Identidy found out you need a hood. Sure you may be a good thief and stuff but while your stealing from a Worker or what ever, all it takes is some PC to walk around the cornor and in a second hes thinking "WHOEVER IS A THIEF! ARGHH" :) More realistic if they could pull out a connie to catch them or go report him to a PC connie.

(sorry for all my spelling mistakes if there are any :) )

[illabrat]

I don't mind being contacted. I listen to think for that purpose. I object to people thinking aloud pointless, thoughtless nonsense, attention seeking or things that would be better off said in person. Roleplay in person. Give us the choice to participate or not. Think would be great if we actually had some respect for the people listening.

Haven't I been clear?

[Genes]

I think that jolee had some serios childhood problems. She is always negative about everything. Jolee have leminarflow give you a head check ok and be more happy jeez. but anyway i think think is a good thing to have ...yes there are the occasional idiots like those everthinker people the other day *giggle
but all-in-all it's a good thing

[illabrat]

Don't do that, Genes. Pay attention. One of the main topics of this thread is respect. Show some.

[Brassy]

I dare say that this discussion could go on forever. It's clear that everyone's opinion on what is appropriate in think is as numerous as there are people. Finding a happy medium (read compromise) is our best hope. It's extreme to expect some social interchange to disappear entirely from think and treat it as a 911 number (for those not residents of the US and may not know, that is a "universal" number for your local police/fire/paramedics)

On the other hand it's extreme to propose marriage, Get married and then move on to the honeymoon over think. Somewhere between those two extremes there has to be an "acceptable" solution.

Socially speaking, I can understand sending a think warm fuzzy the equivalent of a *hug* to someone, or to put *pounce* to give that sense of "Aha you're finally here and I caught it!" to your greeting. I agree with Shade that If you fire an opening round in think to an argument, that's fine. But work out a place to get to the "bone of contention" and then save it for a face to face.

Same thing goes for courtship. If you like the "feel" of a persons thoughts, agree to meet someplace and take it to the next level. Some flirting here and there to feel them out is acceptable but if you made up your mind, go meet. Or agree that you should meet the next time you are awake.
Don't wail about how lonely you are in think. Pego is more than willing to listen to you pour your heart out over a lonely ale. So Is Rachina and any other bartender in Iridine.

And please stop referring to any GM as a "god or gods" in think or anywhere for that matter. They may represent Ereal at an event from time to time but even they have said not to do that, it's OOC. And if you are in mourning, don't emote every single teardrop in our heads. Ridiculous and extreme!

To my mind, Not bartering in think is acceptable for the simple reason that it was mentioned by staff an age ago that it's frowned on. In fact I think a character had his think removed for a long time for that very infraction. To mention that you will have items up for auction and give a GENERAL listing eg. "I have greysands weaponry/clothing. Meet me at the auction house/bank in ten minutes." seems reasonable to me. More than twice in the span of a minute would annoy me no end though. Which brings me to the next item.

Repetition. How many times do you need to get no response whatsoever to realize no-one HAS tobacco?! Consider how you are asking the question and the response you are wanting. A suggested form would be, "If anyone has any tobacco, or knows of any tobacco that I could acquire, please let me know. " This sends the clear understanding you are only looking for a "yes" type of answer to the generalized "Does anyone have tobacco?" It free's the listeners from the annoying decision of weighing whether or not to spend that precious energy sending an inconvenient "No" back to you. Then wait. If there is no response, rephrase the question. "If anyone has any or knows anyone who has any tobacco, I'd be obliged to hear"

If you still get no response, wait AT LEAST AN HOUR to try again. every five minutes or fifteen minutes is just tiring for the listener and (no pun intended) to you.

My personal petpeeve. The ALLCAPS IDIOT. Usually we can tell if it's an accident and ya hit the allcaps key, but to YELL in think is rude. Save it for if you are DYING at the hands of a cineran who is raiding Vet road. But if you are looking for someone, don't yell their name. I don't know about anyone else but I tend to think of both the person yelling, and the person who's name is yelled as brainlessif I don't already think it to begin with. And for pity's sake, check to see if they are thinking. Type Who. It wouldn't be colorized green (for think on) and black (think off) if it weren't meant to be used that way. It's never acceptable to yell in eveyones head for any reason except an emergency with life or death consequences, or even the initial (first time you become aware of )discovery of the death of a loved one. That is in character.

This post is already quite long but I think you get my ideas. Let me stress this is just MY idea of compromise in using think.

It's here. It's in character. We use it. We just need to agree on what is acceptable in general. If you read to the end, thanks. I appreciate it.