Philosphical Argument for the week: Volume 1

[Whindanser]

Note: This is no intended to sway, insult, or slander anyones religious beliefs.

If there is a supreme being in the universe that is all powerful and capable of anything, can the supreme being create a rock that he can't lift?

*cackles and waits for people's brains to explode*

[Gauril]

Absolutely..n...well if...ye...n...ye...*pop*<-the sound of a head exploding

[Falconking]

I was about to post that under mindless thoughts:p


My theory on it though is that there is no ALL powerful since power must stop somewhere.

[Whindanser]

What about the Law of Conservation of Energy....No energy can be gained or destroyed (something like that). Therefore it can't have an end.

Can that law be applied to Power?

*watches as more heads explode*

Muahahaha

[Blackhand]

Yes, but then he could change it so that he could lift it just as easily. In other words, only by placing a limitation on himself.

[cuauhtemoc]

The God i believe would pose this question in return or something like it...

"Why the hell would even wanna try? Do you seriously think i have something to proove to the likes of you?"

Okay maybe if i was God, thats what id say. and if you tried to argue with me, id snap and turn you into grass in my pasture of sheep to eat.

[Redric]

This wasn't really anything hard to ponder about. This supreme being of the universe does have one thing it could not do, and thats anything. If he didn't want to lift something, then he wouldn't/couldn't, because it has deemed it so.

[dunstvangeet]

First of all, those an unstoppable force and an immovable object cannot exist in the same universe. When the two come in contact, either one will be stopped, or one will be moved.

[Blackhand]

Originally posted by dunstvangeet
First of all, those an unstoppable force and an immovable object cannot exist in the same universe. When the two come in contact, either one will be stopped, or one will be moved.

Or, when they meet, they unstoppable one will just brush by the immoveable one. :p

[Nanakii]

Keep in mind that any creation theory in a theological context is relatively incompatible with the law of conversation of energy. In theory, God doesn't have to obey the laws of physics because he is supernatural.. he is beyond nature and its self-perpetuating rules. The problem is that there is a contradiction in the question so there will have to be a contradiction in the answer. Assuming that there is a God that is capable of anything, he can create a rock that he can and cannot lift (at the same time). Also, depending on the nature of the will of God, it could be that God can choose whether or not the rock is able to be lifted, and toggle its 'liftability' to his whims.

[NewPatriot]

you people have way too much free time.

[Arcano]

ok, i will try to explain (in english will probably be more difficulf for me) the correct Theologic answer for this question, for it does exit.

God dont leaves in the same time we do. He live in Kairós, its like, hmm a time without time were everything does exit at same time (that is how he knows everythin that was, are and will be without predestination) at Kairós that is the time of creation He can create a boulder that He cant lift and this will not limit Him but this boulder will only exist during the creation, but since Kairos is a time without time that in truth has all the time at same time its an unmoveable boulder, and at same time sine God is all powerfull and at normal time he would move this boulder when He wants this moment He want to move the boulder does exist at Kairós at same time the moment the boulder cant be lifted, so He can create a boulder that cant be lifted but this dont limint him because at same time it cant be lifted it can be lifted..... oh well, its a bit complicated and you will need some degrees on philosofy and theology to understand it better (and me too)

[Falconius]

The problem with the question is with the question itself. The ansewer is, no, he cannot creata boulder he cannot lift. This how ever does not contradict the idea that he is all powerful and time less being. If he could creat a rock to heavy to lift that would imply a limitation, but being able to do something would imply no limitation. The issue comes down to language, supposedly his inability to creat something, this is false. Indeed even veiwing him in phisical terms is erronous, he created the laws that govern everthing but is not subject to them. You cant really define God on our terms or esspecaily not with the limitation of languages we use to help us to describe the world WE live in. ... Blah my brain functions not I forgot where I was going with this, but its food for thought nonetheless.

ANy ways good hunting.

[cuauhtemoc]

Now if God threw this boulder at you, would your armor save you or could you dodge it?

hmm.. maybe wrath is god.

[loveneko]

If he could create a rock he could not lift that would indicate limitation?

Isn't not being able to create a the rock he can't lift a limitation as well? :P

Use common sense, or I'll use the common sense stick. :rolleyes:

[Tormemnor]

As some have stated: time has no meaning. I would like to say: if time does not exist, nothing does, as our idea of time relates to our creation, existence and destruction and our perception of the "outer world" that passes before our eyes.

So, implied on the question:

If there is a supreme being that does not exist in a universe that does not exist that is all powerfull of nothing and capable of anything that isn't real, can the supreme being that does not exist create a rock that does not exist that he can't lift?

Then the answer would be : yes.

But than again, yes doesn't exist either...

[Whindanser]

This is called the Paradox of Omnipotence.

If God can do anything possible and has infinite power:

Then there is no rock that exists in reality that he can't lift. Thus, God does not have the limitations, the rock does. It is not possible for a rock to have such a mass that God can not lift it.

Possible is the big word.

[ForumNinja]

*rolls eyes*...

Who says that God's muscles should be stronger than God's ability to create?

If god can't create such a boulder, doesn't that mean he is no longer omnipotent?

Humbug. *babbles*

It's God's power vs God's power.

Which wins? :o

[Blackhand]

Another way of putting it:

If God is omnipotent, one of the things he could do is cause himself to cease to be omnipotent. And in such a way he no longer has the power to lift this rock he just created.

[Nakimono]

I don't believe in invisible men, let alone those that create galaxies, but according to the wording of your original question, the answer is "no." You said "If there is a supreme being...that is..capable of anything, can the supreme being create a rock that he can't lift?" If he is capable of anything, then...well, he's capable of anything.;)

[Whindanser]

What if he was impotent? *eyeshift*

[Blackhand]

I thought this comic (http://www.ucomics.com/kudzu/2003/03/17/) was relevant. It was printed two days ago, on Monday.

Now I wonder, what is the orignal source of this question? And did Whindanser and the writer of this comic hear it from the same source (like someone asking it on a popular TV show recently).