Food, Drinks, Bodies and Clothing

[Aumakua]

On behalf of Skotos, CE humbly apologizes to our community for not keeping everyone frequently updated on changes being put into place as of late.

Quite some time ago, we made some statements about things that were going to be happening in the castle. Now these things are happening.

Drinks (Implemented) - Yes, those magicals little vessels that dissappear after the liquid is gone are no longer being served. Type 'Help Food' for more information on the new drinks.

Foods (Implemented) - The agless problems of rotten foods has now found its way into Castle Marrach. And again, more information is available at 'Help Food' in the game.
As a side note, we apologize for not giving fore warning that all existing food was going to rot away into nothingness. That was a miscommunication on our part and we'll try to advise you all in the future before making changes of this nature. The foods that were being horded in mass quantities was causing some issues in the game.

Bodies (Implemented) - Ever want to change your hair style? or get a tattoo? Now you can with our new improved body system. More on these skills will be coming out later. There are other side effects to this new system, such as death, wounding, and more death.
Side note to this, there were some bugs in this implementation, so if you happen to be a lovely sera with a newly grown trim goatee, or scraggly bread, please file an assist and we'll give you a nice clean shave at Ye Olde StoryHost Barber Shop.

Clothing (Implemented) - Yes, the wonderful alteration system, where choosing a color for your new bodice, girdle, shirt or pants is the longest part of the process. See your local teacher of dying and tailoring to learn more.
As a side note here, to clean up the system as well as to prevent confusion between alterable and non-alterable items, the old clothes will slowly be removed from the game. Special items, IE ones you didnt get from the tailor or seasmtress, will not be removed accept on a case by case basis.

We're sorry for the inconveniences, but we hope that the candy and extra drinks makes up at least a little for it. ;)

[Umichan]

ACK!!! That means I'll lose ALL my brocade gowns, my favourite wool gown, my white cloak I love so much and that nice formal gown I received as a gift...

You guys are VERY cruel, you know that???

And I bet we couldn't even at least keep a few pieces of clothings that haver a particular meaning for our characters??? :(

Pissed off and depressed now,
Gaby :(

[John]

Originally posted by Aumakua
Clothing (Implemented) - Yes, the wonderful alteration system, where choosing a color for your new bodice, girdle, shirt or pants is the longest part of the process. See your local teacher of dying and tailoring to learn more.
As a side note here, to clean up the system as well as to prevent confusion between alterable and non-alterable items, the old clothes will slowly be removed from the game. Special items, IE ones you didnt get from the tailor or seasmtress, will not be removed accept on a case by case basis.


this will only fly if..we are told before it happens so we can get new clothing on and if what exctly is seen as clothing is defined..i can wear jewlry/armbands/clasps/keys on chains/pouchs/clothing
what of that list counts as clothing..(sorry still pissed..IC i have avoided most of the tailoring dying people for a reason, but now out of the blue i will have to come up with a reason to get things changed..or more likly i will just wear plain clothing and actin insane..(aka keep claming it looks the same as it always did..)( mabey i cam put my linens back on:)..)

[Blade]

Actually, I am relieved.

My pants and shirt will vanish but I will live. My cape, doublet, gloves, hose, and trunkhose were not from a tailor so they should stay.

A question... Do the Winter Ball things count as "special items"? That is where my valuable clothes are from.

I have a new shirt that was an IC gift (though it's red), and it is from the tailors, so it looks like it will be able to stay. I can get a new white gauze shirt, and new pants. Since I don't know when my pants will vanish I need to find a new pair ASAP. I suggest that others do the same.;)

As for bodies... Well, you didn't DELETE our bodies (thank God) and you actually fixed a couple of us so you're not going to hear any complaints there.

[Blade]

Oh, Umi, not ALL of your clothes will be gone. You mentioned a formal gown... That'll stay. I'm not 100% sure that white cloaks came from the tailor since they are so rare, so that might stay as well.

Assuming the Winter Ball stuff are special items, of course.

[Seidl]

From what was said above, I believe anything that did not start out plain clothingwise will disappear eventually. no clue on the time table though.

-=- Matt

[Blade]

Um... That runs contrary to this statement:

Special items, IE ones you didnt get from the tailor or seasmtress, will not be removed accept on a case by case basis.

So, what is the REAL answer?

[Kvalhion]

Slowly phasing old old clothes is better than having a blinding flash of light where afterwards everyone is naked (although that would be pretty funny).

Still, I do not see why certain items of clothes cannot hang around as antique clothing, or be allowed to be kept for special IC reasons. It is not as if we are going to pretend such items of clothing never existed, I assume IC it will be more like a fashion overhaul.

Rather than assuming everything is going to go poof and get very angry and upset, try pleading your case to the powers that be and see if that makes a difference. If not, then be upset. :) From a player/IC standpoint, there really isn't a reason why items that are not special couldn't exist. It would be necessary however to limit the amount of these clothes that are spared - ie, you must have a good reason for wanting to keep them, and actually speak up about it rather than assuming it will not go away.

I like the changes, and I am all for new features. Just please give us as much warning as possible. =)

Kv

[Seidl]

As a side note here, to clean up the system as well as to prevent confusion between alterable and non-alterable items, the old clothes will slowly be removed from the game.


And ... I got my ball clothes from a tailor, just a special tailor locked in his won room. By special, I think we're talking unique items. The Shadowcloak, I have a unique handkerchief somewhere, things like that.

-=- Matt

[Atama]

Hmm... If that's the case this is complete crap. I expect CE to let Ermengarde trade old clothes for new versions. That would be fair.

If not... CE is really really pushing it here.

Thank GOD there are other Skotos games. :)

[John]

I think they are also using it to put everyine on the same footing...but...not a good thing in general..
and...we still dont have a clear answer on what will be and not be effected..if its all the dyeable things we are so scrwed..

[Dariel]

Good point, Atama. Why can't you do with the clothes what Blancheflour has -as far as I could see- been doing with books? Removing the old ones and getting the people new ones with the appropriate code behind them.

If CE called for it, I guess everyone would suddenly find an open seam in their brocade gown, bring it to the tailor to have it fixed and use that as an excuse to get another such item, but of the new variant...

Can't be all that hard to find an IC explanation - come on, people.

-Uli-


There's no money
There's no possessions
Only oppression...

[Umichan]

Originally posted by Atama
Thank GOD there are other Skotos games. :)

Yes but TOO BAD I don't LIKE the others Skotos games... :(
I'm really disappointed here. And I know I'm not the only one.

[Kaine]

Originally posted by Aumakua
Special items, IE ones you didnt get from the tailor or seasmtress, will not be removed accept on a case by case basis.


Just how are we to know where some of our clothes came from? if you got it as you were given it or traded for it how are you to know if you need to find a replacement for it?

[Kyle]

This is all rather dishartening... but ill get over it...
My main concern is this:
I fear my pants will disapear off my legs, so I go buy new ones... while the wipe is going, my new pants get deleted and im left without pants... I clutch my cloak closely, blushing furiously at the now nakid women laughing at me, before I reilize my favorit cloak is gone. Maybe this will happen while im wearing my robe, in witch case it will feel like all my other clothes will just have turned to dust and fall off me in a cloud. Hey, what about my nice boots and belt... I love those.
I dont think anything is gona make this better, just give us the shot so we can start whineing and recovering sooner.

[Umichan]

Kyle, the OLD clothes will be deleted, which means the ones that you got BEFORE the seamstress and tailor started distributing plain clothing.

[Mintle]

Here's how I understand it, talking to a SH:

If you got it from a seamstress or tailor before they started putting out plain clothes, it's going to be erased.

If you got it in trade before there were plain clothes, it's going to be erased.

If you got in trade after the plain clothes came out, but it is still something like: a [color] [item] or a [color] brocade [item], it's most likely from the pre-plain-clothes era, and it's going to be erased.

Winter Ball clothes came from the special tailors and seamstresses, right? That means they are going to be erased too.

As Matt said, if a player tailor or a VP/SH/SG/SP didn't make it, kiss it goodbye.

---

As for putting us all on the same footing: yeah, that's why I've been here for 6 and a half months, to be on the same footing with someone who started yesterday. I knew advancement was supposed to take a long time, but that's insane.

[Catharsis]

Before some of you get too upset, wait and see what those such as Mistress Ermengarde are going to do about this.

Will a replacement program be in effect? Well, I'd like to hope something might be, but I cannot see Ermengarde trading a newbie her scarlet brocade gown for a new brocade dress of scarlet.

I'd like to think that someone (like Mintle) who has been around for this long might be able to get a few nicer items from Ermenagrde or her apprentices. Although this IS getting into the entire 'rank' versus 'age' argument. (But Mintle is a dancing instructor ... an OB rank, but that's up to Ermengarde to respect or dismiss.)

Honestly, this will replace the uneven parts of the game that so many have been complaining about - the inconsistences. This way, everyone will (ideally) have the level of clothing that they are supposed to have. Illegal items aside, this is the BEST way to enforce the dressing guidelines from the IB.

Leah

[Boilermg]

I have to agree with Leah too and might I add:

What is the reason you play? To wear nice clothes? To eat marzipan?

I am here because I love to RP. This is just another opportunity to do that. People will get my respect because they earned it RPing IC, not because they wear nice clothes or nibble on a pear!

I understand that there are items that have a sentimental value, if they disappear, it is a RP opportunity for you! When my food disappeared, Marg screamed robbery and started threatening the fat male servant near her room! While he was unfazed, I still had fun!

I hope this doesn't keep you all from enjoying yourself!
Change can be fun!

Meg (Margaret)

[Dariel]

Okay, so let me get this straight... we're talking about something like a rule here, right? Common sense dictates the following behaviour towards rules:

1) If you do not like the rules, change them.

and barring that

2) If you cannot change the rules, ignore them.

I admit that brocade gowns might be a bit hard to explain. But then there is the aforementioned Winter Ball clothing, there are (probably) capes and gloves for example which simply aren't available in the OB (but I for one have never gotten into any trouble with Mistress E for wearing my gloves which were a gift), also black, blue and green garments which are not in themselves all that special but it's simply hard to find someone to dye in those colours.

If Skotos deems it fit to take those things away (sure, they might replace them - but the initial post only said they'd be gone), I'd propose to find a sympathetic player of an HG and ask them to get replacements for the missing old clothes from the IB if doable.

I know this is not very nice to propose, and certainly not fair, but you best fight fire with fire, right?


-Uli-

[Seidl]

Um, we've already had one HG removed for giving out inappropriate clothing IC, you want to make it more?

Actions have repurcussions IC. If you just give people things OOC, it just weakens the whole system and smacks of using OOC for IC.

-=- Matt

[Aumakua]

Wow, that's a lot of responses really quick.

I know a lot of you are going to be pissed about this, all I can do is apologize, but if I keep doing that, it'll lose its meaning after a while. There are reasons these changes are happening, and so they are going to happen. Either with or without fore warning, no-ones going to be happy when things are taken away, at least they are fairly replaceable, and there is an IC reason behind it.

To answer some questions;
All basic old clothing is going to be included in this wipe. Anything unalterable. This includes the special clothes made available for the Winter Ball.

While this is OOC information, you may want to use it as inspiration to clean out your wardrobes and swipe clothing with generic clothing. There is no reason you still cannot do this.

Plain clothing aren't going anywhere! So if you get yourself a new outfit from the Seamstress and Tailor, it will stay with you.

There is going to be an IC reason for this clothing disappearance. It is going to be a while before it is completed (1-3 weeks I believe). So you are going to have time to get new clothes.

I know this change is going to appear to put you all on the same footing. But remember, this isn't a game where your material wealth is what you are judged on. Nor is it a place to horde things for no other purpose then to claim you have them. I know that is the nature of these type of games, but those issues are nothing more then perks and role play tools here. This game is to advance the story of your character. When your story ends, no-one is going to care how many cobalt brocade gowns you had, but rather how well you played your character.

Sorry for the confusion in the first post. If there's any more, please post in here and we'll reply asap.

[John]

Originally posted by Boilermg
I have to agree with Leah too and might I add:

What is the reason you play? To wear nice clothes? To eat marzipan?

I am here because I love to RP. This is just another opportunity to do that. People will get my respect because they earned it RPing IC, not because they wear nice clothes or nibble on a pear!

I understand that there are items that have a sentimental value, if they disappear, it is a RP opportunity for you! When my food disappeared, Marg screamed robbery and started threatening the fat male servant near her room! While he was unfazed, I still had fun!

I hope this doesn't keep you all from enjoying yourself!
Change can be fun!

Meg (Margaret)




you know...i have hear this before but let me make this statment,.,. yes i play john to role play...and for me role play enjoyment does include things..i like things..i colect certion things..also again going throught the effert of getting clothing that i think doesnt make me look like a clown is not what i RP for...and i dont RP for haveing to do a lot of extra work (IC or OOC ) to replce things that dont go away for ANY IC reasons...
if someone with a plot stole something..NP...if a plot that involved a curse did something..(like everyone clothing was rotting off) yet again NP...the rush for New stuff would be an event...
many people have diffent views of role play...my view is diffrent than yours and yes..it does requier that "take backs" or the such happen for IC reasons...and since this is effecting everyone then it should be a CE reasons...not a half douzen player plots..
in addition...this little event is only hitting the people with older stuff..so the older players..and people who have done a favor for the older players...so much of the attempts of charicters to work with favor matters..getting people inolved and doing plots that involve the illegal trade of goods have all gone to pot...
and example...lets say lord x has people working for them..and becouse lord x isnt ce he uses something odd so that all the people working for him can be identified...they must all have a half eaton almond that they can show...(not saying this happened..just an example) and now..who is who..i dont know..do you????) another example (this didnt happen) Ser johnathan rewards new people who answer his scroll with a scarf (some nice color or what..)...if they saves that for any reason IC now they are all gone..as would mine be..no warning..nothing...

it is easy enuf to role play past it...or even without the things....but we had them..and were using them..for our role play enjoyment...with them being ripped from us our enjoyment is lessened a lot...
does that help people see the problem?

[John]

Originally posted by Aumakua

Sorry for the confusion in the first post. If there's any more, please post in here and we'll reply asap.

ok..pouches and books....
both can be dyed now..what will happen to the old ones?..and what is in them(with the pouches)
(yes..this is my big worry...all the others things are not leaving problems..but if the things and writings in the pouches are gone..then thats more of a set back then i feel like re-doing.)

[Ravelyn]

I know it's just material...
But I for one would like to keep Ravelyn's cobalt brocade gown at least. And her purple and black clothes. Not to mention an absolutely lovely grey gown with a daring neckline:o

VENTING: Ignore me if you're going to fade her clothes away anyway

Ravelyn's rainbow of slippers, her myriad of bodices and dresses, her black cloak, her jewel-like display of chemises, the black tunics and shiny black boots . . . these will ALL disappear?

Aye me, Oh well. But can she get her books back though? She's wallowing without them.

Sounding more disappointed than she actually is, but still wistful about the loss of variety,

Carmen

[Mintle]

maybe I'm being inflammatory here, but here's a little advice: go read your books while logging. It's what I did. At least that way, if they poof, you'll have the content saved SOMEWHERE.

If people want to know how, send me a PM at Mintle.

I guess I better go empty my pouches out, just in case.

[Aumakua]

There is one reason always present in CM, and it is always relevant.

For that matter, the person responsible has offered to put thier neck on the chopping block for the disappearance of foods.

The reason is mystery. Just because something disappears doesn't mean you have to make up your own reasons or plots to explain what happened, it could be there is a plot behind it.

If all of a sudden the cats began speaking Teanga, would you all assume that CE is making changes again without telling you? Or that there is something amiss in the castle?

In this case, time for a plot wasn't given, and the changes happened suddenly. A plot has been put into place now to back it, now go find it!

Remember, this is a game about mystery and intrigue, so go have fun. :)

[Aumakua]

I did forget to mention those. I am fairly certain they are not going anywhere, but will check to make sure and respond as soon as I know.

[John]

Originally posted by Aumakua
I did forget to mention those. I am fairly certain they are not going anywhere, but will check to make sure and respond as soon as I know.

ok cool thanks..if they are not changing..i will live...(i will look stupid for a while but hey..)thanks for the info..and sorry but as i said..vastly pissed about tackbacks..
doing better now...

[Atama]

Face it guys, we're screwed.

I'm going to watch how this is handled. But I will admit that I am pissed and offended by this. If it wasn't dropped on us like a bombshell, I'd be ok. And if it was done during beta, it would be ok. But now? Out of nowhere? It's, well, screwed up.

Anyways... Man I love TEC. Marrach is really starting to SUCK.

Sorry to say it, but CE has been fumbling the ball alot lately, and I'm starting to get tired of it.

And I know from reading these forums that I echo the sentiments of probably most of the castle.

Will I stay? I'm not sure. I'll stay with Skotos, yes, but I'm not sure about the Castle. Because frankly this game is being mismanaged.

[Hannah]

Okay, here goes my rant. I have to agree with Atama on this...if all this happened in beta it owuld have been alright..but what about things now that they can't be replaced..I have a few things that my character hold very dear simply because they were gifts from her oath brother and her brother whom are both dead. How to explain why she no longer has them without making it look like she no longer cares....This isn't right...too many things are changing now that you are asking for money....you let all the VP's get comfy and now your going to pull the rug out from under us...well you may be pulling out dollars right out of your pockt as well...You should be more mindful of what your doing. You may have mentioned changes, but you never said everything was going to go away. I understand things must change...but just ripping things away is not the way to do it.

One very unhappy skotos customer......

[Gareth]

Frankly, I have no idea which of my clothes are "poofable" at this point.

I would like to request some "Seamstress/Tailor" hours to get an inspection and check-up.

I don't want to go around nude.

I also have Winter Ball clothes from Ali, etc.

It rather rots to lose the food to, well, rotting.

But I think we'll have to see Great White Moths of Unusual Size to explain the disappearance of the clothing. ;)

-Peter.

[Ra'Dorcha]

I post this as a call to all denizens. Put on your old clothes. Make them come and take them from our cold dead bodies.

Do not let them take our brocade without a fight.

Posted rebiliously by Cotsgo'spo.

(I hope I'm on-line when the clothes go poof. There are some seras who ... *blush*)

[Ravelyn]

I am officially joining your crusade, Ra'd! Onward!
Only half in jest,
Carmen

[yoko]

Rad - as one of the seras who *blush* (perhaps a little too much), I sincerely hope that both you and are online at the time the clothes vanish! Preferably somewhere like the sunset room with a couple of Newly Awakened around:eek:
Yoko

[Umichan]

Whaaaaaaaaaaa!!! Atama-sama!!!! You can't leave me!!!!!!!

Who is going to pester me every time I pester them! Not fair! ;_;

[Seidl]

Look, do I think the disappearence of all the food was a good thing, No. But is it earth shattering? Not really. I've lost my winder ball cake (I assume) and one or two other things, but the items were stuck back in baskets and never really looked at as it was. WIll the going away of clothing be a bad thing? Not in my opinion. Its a lot easier than trying to enforce sumptuary laws piece-male. Now we know what hte laws are, and if we break them what the penlties are.

Where I think there was a failing was in communication, but that's been apologized for. I just hope that it improves.

And to answer Aumakua - If things change suddenly with no explenation. In general my first response IS that someone is changing something, not that its a plot. I know my dueling abilities tend to wax and wane with the moon it seems (Hmmm .... interesting plot idea there). And the dueling system HAS changed enough that I'm still getting used to it. Was that a plot? Nope. A change. Maybe that will change eventually, but for now its generally more appropriate to believe radical shifts in laws and system to be OOC things till they're confirmed, then deal with them IC. And not to look for IC explenations first. Especially as the last couple of times I've tried that I've been yelled at IC and not treated well OOC.

So, DO I think all this is great? Nope. But I also can understand wanting a final solution to the problems, and no one will ever be happy with things being taken away from them unless they understand why. What I would have liked was better communication, thats what I think the main problem is. Trusting players to react appropriately to things like this. Maybe we need to meet CE half way on this, prove we CAN act decently. But both sides need to work together for the player base to have fun and grow.

-=- Matt

[KathyN]

Remember an article a while back on the different types of gamers? I recall that one kind was the type that liked to acquire things. While it isn't the point of Marrach, it is a type of gaming style.
Also it seems rather cruel to take away things that were given as gifts or keepsakes.
What about the dark pouches? Are they going too?
No one distributes pouchs anymore that I know of except Mistress Ermengarde and she's out for awhile.
Why can't the crafters return.. Ferguson and the crafters could make pouchs again?
I think stuff should be replaced if the player can justify it.. like they swapped jewelry or worked x hours or did something RP'ly to get it.
Kathy N

[alysa]

Originally posted by Catharsis
Will a replacement program be in effect? Well, I'd like to hope something might be, but I cannot see Ermengarde trading a newbie her scarlet brocade gown for a new brocade dress of scarlet.


How did that hypothetical newly get that hypothetical gown? She probably did not find it on the floor. It probably was given to her by an older player, and she probably worked hard (or RP'd well) to get it. Clothes certainly should be replaced on a 1:1 basis. No tiresome status issues or fashion politcs, just a straightforward exchange.

I will also mention that the vanishing clothes will not affect me one whit. I am pissed off all the same, because this says to me (in big bright letters) that the CE doesn't really care about the paying customer's experiences and feelings. Serious lack of consideration here, guys. I won't even go into how inconsiderate CE was to Kiera's player. That is another level of rudeness.

I was rather happy with Marrach before this. Now I am not so sure.

[Darren Brimhall]

Great, there goes all my dark stuff I liked tto wear.
But if you walk off with a certain sera's music box and flowers, there will be hell to pay.

Darren brimhall

[bumblebee]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Not my brocade! You're wrong, whoever said this: this is NOT the ideal way to even us out! What the hell is wrong with you people!? All my characters will be naked! :eek:

This isn't right! What the hell ever happened to not mixing OOC and IC?! Isn't this Skotos using an OOC tool to even us all out? And what about illegal garments and foods! Believe it or not, there ARE a few people who do illegal things in game! What about my villain? Is that char to lose all the things I've collected (stolen) too? :mad:

Alright, I have more to say, but I'm not thinking straight. I'm losing four months of work in real time because someone decided that all my belongings are going to vanish, and I don't want to hear about giant moths that ate all my gowns or giant rats that ate my chocolate and drank my wine. See the thing is, if all the cats started speaking teanga, that would be funny. I'd get dove on and try to understand what a cat would *say* in teanga given this prime opportunity, we'd all talk about sorcery. But you're taking away tokens of favor, love, and keepsakes that we've spent a *long* time getting, many of them irreplacable. :( And you're taking them away without warning or reason. And give me a break, this is not an IC plot. The IC plot isn't even ready in time for the disappearance, it's just going to show up in a few weeks so we can all get the "by the way, everything you own is gone due to a freak pestelance of Giant Moths" talk. One night I held these things in my virual hands, the next there was nothing. That wasn't rotting away, they weren't stale or moldy. They just vanished from my pouch.

And the books, I have two golden books! Are those going to be replaced? I would think it would be only fair to replace the things that are being taken!

Sure, these are only roleplaying tools. But I get into playing this, I am at least a little attached to my characters, and I hate to see months of real life time and effort ground into the dust overnight due to a *omitted* pack of *omitted* "giant moths"!

CE, this is bullshit.

If I disappear for a week or two, I'm taking time to back off and cool down. If I disappear and never come back, you know why.

By the way, the silver circlet Guido the courier gave dove for telling a story: will she lose that too? She just lost the rose he gave her, and that's just one of many keepsakes. And the flowers, do you plan on taking the yellow tulip from the ser Dove no longer sees? It's all she has left of him. There's no reason for flowers to disappear, by the way. Flowers dry quite nicely. Maybe they could become dried flowers, from fresh flowers. But this is a load of BS.

Ack, I'm taking a break from this. No game is worth getting angry over. Especially one I'm paying for. :mad:

-Probably Leaving. :(

(To all my friends and to all those people who are really just aquaintences that I'm involved in plots with: if I leave, I'll give a good IC reason, say goodbye, and tie up loose ends first. Promise.)

[Umichan]

You know, I'm really at two fingers to throw ALL my characters into the furnace, make my account getting deleted, and leave. I'm getting royally pissed off at the situation. Months of roleplaying efforts are getting destroyed, lots of good roleplayers are leaving or planning to leave, and CE doesn't seem to care about what we, the paying customers, are thinking or feeling. Now I'm starting to regret paying for this.

Don't be surprised if one night I log off for never being seen again. I'm really tired about all of this.

[Faruq]

Originally posted by KathyN
No one distributes pouchs anymore that I know of except Mistress Ermengarde and she's out for awhile.

What about boots? I have a pair of black, low, leather boots. They will disappear. With Ermengarde gone for a month or so, I won't be able to replace them -- even with all the favour in the castle behind me.

[Ravelyn]

I say make the best of it. Ravelyn is currently draped in all her lovely brocade and silky stuffs. Flaunt it while you got it and let's not mourn too much! Remember... everyone will be losing a lot of their stuff.

Refusing IC to conform to clothing restrictions because she wants to skirt about in the luscious fabrics until they disappear,
Carmen:cool:

[Anita]

Some of Vivanna's clothes were made by Mistress Ermengarde and those are her favorite items...will she lose those? I certainly hope not her ecru blouse and sable skirt are her uniform that and her green wool gown. *Sigh* Oh well.



Sadly, Anita :(

[Umichan]

Anita,
If your green woll gown is one from before they started distributing plain clothing, you will lose it. If the clothes Ermengarde made for you were made from plain clothing, you'll still have them.

And Carmen, I guess I'll join you in your brocade wearing thingy while I can still wear my gown. Huzzah! I guess I'll even wear that indigo velveteen gown with daring neckline Jasmine offered me before leaving, so I could say I had at least wore it ONCE! :D Should wear it at one of the BG practice too and curtsy revealingly to the sers (I can already see Gareth blushing and acting paternally with Umi... rofl)... LOL Bad Elder Teacher! Baaaaaaaaaaaaaad!!! ;)

Still pissed off, still depressed, still upset, but somehow roguish,:cool:
Gaby :p

[ChristopherA]

Originally posted by bumblebee
This isn't right! What the hell ever happened to not mixing OOC and IC?! Isn't this Skotos using an OOC tool to even us all out?

I want to be clear that the primary reason for all of these changes has nothing to with IC or in-game reasons such as "even us all out". They were made to resolve technical problems of different types.

For instance, some of the lag in the game was caused by people entering and leaving their rooms with hundreds of the old clothes and even more of the old food items. Old clothing in the game can cause problems with the new clothing.

In some cases, we can patch things so that old items can just become new items, but this has to be done using a very laborious method on a per-item-type level, and is very costly in time. Thus we have to weigh having 5 people working for a week to clean up and patch all the old food and clothes, vs. working on new features. We chose new features.

BTW, note that one of the significant new features in all of these new items include an ability for these items to be much more easily patchable, so that we can avoid these type of problems in the future.

None of this is intended as an excuse for not giving sufficient notice -- we should have given more warning on the food changes, and for the lack of that you have our sincerest apologies. We have learned a lesson that even what we think are minor changes we need to better inform our users.

-- Christopher Allen

[Umichan]

Still, couldn't we have the possibility to, say, chose 3 pieces of clothings we could keep, for example? :(

Gaby

[Dariel]

Heh, this is the comment I have been waiting for.

The magic word is -as almost always- consensus.

Everything that has been pointed out is from a purely technical point of view fully understandable. Not only that, even more so, it's great to get a bit of control over lag etc.

But you also have to see the downside. People have connected certain possessions with certain events that shaped their characters, others use what they have as status symbols (ask me about my black gloves.).

Now, you have given yourself away by hinting at the possibility of recoding existing items. I admit, nobody wants to see 200 star-shaped marzipans and 500 items of clothing recoded, but possibly, you could have people choose a few items (base it on months payed or played, make it either per account or per character) they want their characters to keep. Okay, so it's too late for those wedding cakes and almonds, but we can save a few of those gowns etc.

This is IMO the best you could do. Make up a system to determine a number of items everyone can keep (as I implied, based on how long they have played) that you will recode to fit the new standars. A few things might even be easier to replace with a major fashion assault from Mistress Ermengarde ("oh my, that brocade gown is lovely, but the fit is awful... do you want me to change it for you my dear? I should have it done by Moonday").

Or, if not too many old books and pieces of clothing will survive, simply keep them around...


Does that sound feasible?


-Uli-

[Umichan]

Oh yes, another question... What about pouches? Will some disappear too? And my burgundy book? And my wicker basket? And the music box the cat gave me? And my potted white flower? Alright, that was not one question, but six... *sigh* :(

That would be noce though if we could keep a few of those things, like Dariel said. Some things like my dark pouch, my basket and my flower, I could probably replace them. The book... Never really used it, but I can't say I wouldn't be upset if it disappeared. I really and totally adore my white cloak, my blue wool gown, and my velveteen formal gown though. And the music box, I could always whine at Aumakua to receive a new one since he offered it to me.

Oh well... I don't care about my brocade gowns that much... I guess I'll just start to morn over the incoming loss of some of my character's favourite objects and get depressed when more of my CM buddies decide to leave because of that... I guess my only comfort is the fact we might get rid of this awful lag... *sigh*

Sorry for sounding selfish... Sucks being an hopeless addict...
Gaby :(

[Jillian]

I have to say, I am really pissed. Are the clothes just going to *poof* be gone, and there I'll be, naked and cold in the middle of the courtyard, people staring and blushing at me?
And Jill has some certain clothes that she quite frankly, doesn't want to disapear!
Kyle, remember that marzipan you gave to Jill? Well, she saved it, and now *poof* it's gone! I don't want that to happen to my clothes in the middle of a duel!
It's almost as if CE is trying to get rid of players. We're paying customers and I don't think that CM can just tell us out of the blue that they're going to take a bunch of items from us, some items that, for Jillian, are important. Jillian is my good friend, been my char for a long time, and she is very hurt that her things will just disintegrate!

[alysa]

Since Ermengarde is taking a vacation (did she see this coming?), how about you take the Royal Tailor (or equivalent) out of mothballs to make 1:1 exchanges?

Park him in Ermengarde's workroom for a week. Or in the tailors. Heck, even the courtyard would work. Come up with some spurious reason for his presence, and we the players come up with spurious reasons for needing exchanges. We meet halfway; the buggy clothes go, and Skotos doesn't outrage it's customers.

Since this is a sore subject for just about every person in the castle, making a plot out of it is a rather bad idea. Best to get it out of the way as quickly as possible, and we can all never speak of it again.

[Lucas]

Originally posted by ChristopherA


I want to be clear that the primary reason for all of these changes has nothing to with IC or in-game reasons such as "even us all out". They were made to resolve technical problems of different types.
Okay, granted. And on my part, not really a big deal since most of my clothes are replaceable. Obviously it is a big deal to a lot of people though, and thinking that there are those who may be quitting over this is really starting to annoy me. And at this point, I think spin control should be a major issue at CE.

There should be someone, regardless of cost, willing to man a character in the tailor/seamstress room and give out replacements for clothing on a 1:1 basis. And, since it's an OOC change, the swap should be OOC as well - no repercussions IC for owning the wrong clothing. Don't ask, don't tell. If it takes five hours or more for people to get their mementos replaced, frankly to keep people happy I'd think it a small price to pay.

I appreciate the warning on the clothes issue, and as I said it really doesn't bother me personally that much, but four pages worth of angry replies in less than a day should probably be a clue that something needs to be worked out.

Shawn / Lucas

[alysa]

Lucas has it right: the matter shouldn't even be IC. Just have someone available to switch clothes.

All the threatened defections are causing other people to consider leaving; you will have a very ugly snowball on your hands if you do not take action.

[Druzilla]

I completely agree. If our clothes are going to vanish, then at least replace them with something else. I've been playing since Desember, and have been putting a lot of effort into the game, being able to gather up a few fancy clothes. I'm not going to just be left standing on the bear ground, wearing nothing more than what the newlie standing next to me does, because CE decided that the clothes had to go, and -poof!- Yes, I collected some fancy clothes, and yes, I'd like to keep them. I've been around for some time, and I feel that I should at least have something to show for it.

If I don't get my clothes replaced, I'm going to be left seriously pissed( :mad: ), and I might not bother to come back either. CE should think of all the players that they're gonna lose if they don't do something. Working on some new features for a week VS. making the players happy(and keeping them as well)? If I were CE, I'd go with the latter.

I beg CE to think of all the great RPG'ers they are going to lose unless they do something different then what they have planned. Seriously.

My two cents,
~Unhappy costomer~

[Ra'Dorcha]

To CE type people,
I don't think this will help the lag. It might for awhile, but it looks like there are players who have gotten used to collecting stuff. They will (I'm assuming they won't leave over this) just go back to rebuilding their collection. So in a few months you have the same lag issue.

Some characters do not have a choice about how much stuff they carry. You really can't tell Angron he can't carry 360 (last I knew) scrolls. They are all for Sir Lanufal (I assume). He's helping you guys out IC with that, and as a player only has so much time to deal with them. plus try and get his character somewhere in character development.

The item collecting goes back to the concept of be careful what (and how) you reward your players. Players are used to thinking having a large collection of stuff to barter with gets them the reward of nicer and more rare items. Ra' is much more a trader of info, but he has so little that he can trade it makes it difficult.

To Ximena, thanks for doing the trade of info. It's nice to know how old the older guilds are.

To denizens, join the revolution. Wear your old clothes till they take them from our dead bodies.

idly mussed by Ra' .oO (Now if only I knew when the wipe was going to happen so I could be in a room full of seras)

[Catharsis]

Originally posted by Umichan
Oh yes, another question... What about pouches? Will some disappear too? And my burgundy book? And my wicker basket? And the music box the cat gave me? And my potted white flower? Alright, that was not one question, but six... *sigh* :(

Read the damned posts before you all start whining. From the better written posts you might have learned:

1. CE will be giving us warning in the future. This was a one time mistake by one person - wasn't supposed to happen, won't happen again.

2. Pouches will not be poofing, according to CE. I take this to mean that baskets, long cases, etc will not. Flowers will not, for now. Music boxes won't - that's a speciality item, which if you read Aumakua's first posts, will NOT go poof.

I'm disgusted with the game - because I'm disgusted with all of you whiners who go "I can't stand this! I want my clothes/foods! I can't play the game! They said this was a finished game! This is pay-for-play, this shouldn't be happening! I hate this, I can't be here, TEC is better, whine whine whine bitch bitch bitch"

So this is letting you guys know - If you're driving ME away, I don't even want to think about what impression the newbies are getting. "What a whiny batch of misfits... I don't want to try out THAT game, because I sure don't want to RP with people like that".

Gee thanks for creating such a disgusting OOC atmosphere on these boards - yeah, I know I'm adding to it by this point, but most of you are completely insane and out of control. A few rational posts aside, about 90% of this should be shifted into a "Rant and Bitch" forum which the rest of us can ignore as being written by the OOC-insane players.

You want to leave? then do and stop whining. Anyone in the game is replaceable. Go.

You want to stay? Then post something USEFUL. Yes, useful posts. There are a few of them in these threads, but they are difficult to see when surrounded by such ... slop.

Leah/Catharsis

[Catharsis]

Originally posted by Ra'Dorcha
To CE type people,
I don't think this will help the lag. It might for awhile, but it looks like there are players who have gotten used to collecting stuff. They will (I'm assuming they won't leave over this) just go back to rebuilding their collection. So in a few months you have the same lag issue.

I'm pretty darn sure CE isn't this stupid, Ra'Dorcha.
The lag didn't have as much to do with the number of itema as it had to do with the number of OLD style items. The old items cause more lag than the new ones. And the old items were not patch-able. The new ones are, so if there is any problem, they can patch them next time, not desting them and starting anew.

I might be wrong, but this is what I got from ChristopherA's post.

Leah

[Seidl]

Look, I don't think clothes will just magicly go *POOF*. Think of all the CE characters (SGs/SHs/And just little seen characters like the Queen) that might find themselves suddenly naked.

I can see it now, SG's summoning the tailor apprentices so they can have clothes again. :)

I would guess a much more gradual wearing out of the old clothes. Maybe even instituting lifetimes for clothes period. Like food they would slowly get worn and faded and then just go poof. Harder to justify (I have never worn this, why does it look worn), but a possibility.

And look. You have fancy clothes you will never get to IC wear, so ... why keep them. If you want to role play that you've got a massive wardrobe hidden in your room, go for it. But do you really need the items?

I would think that OB guests should be able to get from Ermie or the apprentices one outfit suitable for IB wear though, since people DO get sent there on occasion. But thats about all the characters need. It would be nice if special items would not go poof but ... will it effect your day to day playing?

-=- Matt

[Catharsis]

But but but... Seidl... !!

without the clothes/food/whatever my life in the game will end!

*cries uncontrollably*

signed,
Overly Materialistic player


(this is sarcasam, btw)

[Seidl]

LOL Leah.

I know people get attached to things. I'm attached to some of Martel's things (presents from Punzel. His Sword. etc). But really, these things are just props. They let me act out better scenes because I have them (its easier to RP being drunk if I have drinks to drink. not necessary, but helpfull).

Now, is this a big shake up? Yes. Would it be nice to have some momento's stay? Yes. Will it destroy the world? No, not in my opinion. If you stripped Martel naked right now, destroyed everything in his room. He'd go on. First to the tailor to get clothes, then to the IB to get better clothes. A scroll to quilp to get a new sword, etc. Do I need to be friends with teh tailors/quilp/etc to get things? No. It helps, but I have only very rarely seen these characters withold basics for IC annoyance. They might give me less than perfect things, but then I work on getting better. Just like I mightgive less than perfect dueling lectures to them.

Now, I'll miss my clothing stash (which was once listed as one of the largest in the game), but its not like I've been using it after the clothing rules came out. How often were you all wearing all the finary that will no go? If you could get one outfit suitable for an IB visit would that make you feel better? Especially as the new clothes are just niftyer than the old ones.

-=- Matt

[alysa]

Originally posted by Catharsis
So this is letting you guys know - If you're driving ME away, I don't even want to think about what impression the newbies are getting. "What a whiny batch of misfits... I don't want to try out THAT game, because I sure don't want to RP with people like that".


We are fortunate that newlys don't read the forums. But that is besides the point.


You want to stay? Then post something USEFUL. Yes, useful posts. There are a few of them in these threads, but they are difficult to see when surrounded by such ... slop.


I agree in doing more than just complaining. But...belittling something that so many people feel strongly is bad taste, IMO. The whole idea is to stop the emotional outbursts and resolve the problem, not throw another log onto the fire.

[Kvalhion]

I think everyone should drop all their items and join the Forgetters. ;) One of the reasons I liked CM from the beginning was because it wasn't item-dependant. I didn't have to have food to survive (or work to get it), I didn't have to have water, or clothes, or money, or basically anything that I would have to dedicate time for the sole purpose of attaining. Obviously I know some people enjoy dedicating time to get items, but I have to agree that accumulating items isn't really the main focus or goal of the game.

I've played plenty of games where I have seen heartache and anger over items and possessions. Of course, this usually isn't because the items are being instantaneously deleted, but the point is the same. Whether you were killed by another player and all items were looted, or your character died in a place where you couldn't reach your body to retrieve the items, it was always a pain to get those items back.

Basically, I think possessions in games trap you to an extent. This was one of the reasons why I quit EverQuest cold-turkey. Basically the entire game focused on what items people had, how much money they had, etc. And when I thought about dedicating hundreds of hours to get items that didn't even exist in real life, I made the choice to stop playing and dedicate hundreds of hours in RL to get real items. =) It worked, by the way.

This is the first game I played after quitting EQ and not playing any games for over a year. Since I've started, I've basically worn the exact same outfit (which IC is kind of gross I admit) and haven't sought after collecting rare items (although Crystal has been generous enough to give me a few). I like this game because it gives me the freedom to roleplay without requiring I spent countless hours "getting things." This is also why I enjoy playing the role of a Forgetter, who does not seek fine clothes, nice items, or favor and stature. I actually enjoy the game much, much more without them. :)

That said, I have also seen some pretty bad customer service in various games, and I think this is not being handled well at all. Some people DO play games for items, and when roleplaying, some items really become special and priceless. To disregard them so completely is an injustice to those who have collected such things as foods, clothings, jewelry, whatever. Real consideration for the paying customers should have been considered, and while wiping everything from existance may have been the best (if not easiest) solution, some sort of compensation should have been thought up. That is basic common courtesy for those who have sacrificed things in real life they could be doing to play YOUR game. If you think about it that way, this game has an opportunity cost MUCH higher than $10 a month.

I hope, as it is not too late, that CE will do something for those people with special items of clothing. There have already been several good suggestions. If they do not, I would not underestimate the threats that people will find another game to play. I've seen it happen, and I've seen games crash and burn because of it.

Hoping this will all work out somehow,
Ron (Kv)

[Twulf]

*walks into the room with a flame retardant suit on and is carrying a fire extinguisher and starts hosing the place down*.

Ahem, now that has been dealt with...

Sure, people are going to be pissed off and such about all of the momentos that they have, and I'm in that same boat with them, I'll probably lose what I had too, but I would have to agree with the thoughts that the clothing should be replaced with something comperable and that some of the items (ie. from the Winter Ball for example) should remain in place. And there should have definately been more notice as to what was going to happen.
BAD CE! No Scooby snack for you.

Life goes on and the game will continue to evolve, so in a nutshell, game on.

Twulf's player

[alysa]

without the clothes/food/whatever my life in the game will end!


You are completely ignoring the indirect problem -- what these few possessions mean in a game where advancement is all but invisible. This is probably not an issue for an IB regular. Or the head of the Duelists. You are coming across as sounding rather elitist, even if that is not what you intended.

[skitten]

I would like to delve into a little behind why CE is changing things and taking old items out of circulation.

Just like Castle Marrach's community is ever changing, so is the environment. Things are getting cleaned up, fixed and improved. Now, we can taste our food/drink, we can modify our appearance, our clothing is better described, we have a wounding/healing system and various skills are coming into being.

As I said before, having things suddenly disappear was not a happy thing, but as CE has stated, warnings will be given in the future. We all live and learn.

I am sorry that this has caused people heartache and I believe that if you have a very specific reason for owning various items (such as Mintle's wedding outfit to remind her of what she is striving for) and you approach CE calmly, and not like a pack of rabid wolves, CE will see what they can do for you. I really do not believe that CE sat in their offices, chortling evilly, asking themselves "How can we torture and torment our players today?"

So, please. Take a step back then several deep breathes and remember that there are real people behind the SH names. I don't think they like to be ranted at anymore than you do. Make suggestions on how to fix this, not demands and ultimatiums.

Change is never easy. So, let's work together to make it as painless as possible.

Thanks,
Jenn

[Hannah]

Originally posted by Twulf
*walks into the room with a flame retardant suit on and is carrying a fire extinguisher and starts hosing the place down*.

Ahem, now that has been dealt with...

............but I would have to agree with the thoughts that the clothing should be replaced with something comperable and that some of the items (ie. from the Winter Ball for example) should remain in place. And there should have definately been more notice as to what was going to happen.
BAD CE! No Scooby snack for you.

Life goes on and the game will continue to evolve, so in a nutshell, game on.

Twulf's player

Okay Twulf's player..why couldn't you have gotten out the suit and stuff ......... before..when you NEEDED it *Grin*

I must agree there should have been better notice. I also agree very strongly that we should be able to have some things replaced...Imagone if someone wen tin toyr room and snatched all your photo ambums and keepsakes....how happy would you be...wouldn't you do everything in your power to try and get them back and replace what you could?
I understand this is turning in to a large rant, but these forums were provided so we could communticate with skotos, and I believe they have a possibility to say a lot about the company by listening to what we have to say. How they deal with CE problems says a lot to many people....it's a word of mouth kinda thing...If a comany isn't fealing well with ti's customers..why bother joining? are you going to pay them for giving you bad service.
In no way an I say ing I'm going to quit, so don't get me wrong. I just think other things could be done rather than simply ripping the rung from under us.

[Twulf]

As quoted from Hannah--

"Okay Twulf's player..why couldn't you have gotten out the suit and stuff ......... before..when you NEEDED it *Grin*"

Look, had I known that I was going to NEED such an item, don't you think I would have been a bit more prepared for such an occassion?? Although, now that I think about it, I'll probably go get one...LOL!! ;)

Twulf's player

[Dariel]

I have to second Alysa on that.

While I personally do not stand to lose a lot in any way, I do understand that people become attached to a few special things. I'm not talking about huge stashes here, but the aforementioned mementos. Sure, Siobhan'd sketches or the yo-yos and music boxes will stay, but others have gone or will be going the way of all things mortal. That is a fact.

It is also a fact that some people have spent a considerable amount of game time on gathering these things. They have a history of blood, sweat and tears attached to them and taking them away is simply saying 'all your efforts were in vain'. From where I see it, they have a right to be pissed. Sure, a few of the posts go too far, but well, that's emotional people for you. Would you rather play with beings of passion or cold computers?

Now, Catharsis, what you wrote is about on the same level as those posts you have been attacking. You're getting upset, emotional, irrational and downright vicious. Again, I personally just nod to that and think you have a right to your point of view -- however, so has everyone else.

The main problem with that post however, is the unspeakable arrogance you display. Basically, you waltz in and tell people you're better than them, then proceed to commit to the same crime you just accused the others of.

That's not cool, period.

Without wanting to sound too patronizing I'd like you to go back and read your posts again. Do you have a point? Yes. Did you ruin it by getting all bitchy over it? Yes. I'm the last person to endorse political correctness, but as you already noted, your post is not helping the problem. And if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.

By now, I'm sure CE is seeing the response (again: Nice timing, Christopher -- that post was strategically well-timed) and thinking about it. Aggravating the situation will only lead to personal bad blood which some people probably can't keep ooc.

And that is the last thing we want.


Do me the favour and give it a thought, kay?


-Uli-

[Seidl]

Originally posted by alysa

You are completely ignoring the indirect problem -- what these few possessions mean in a game where advancement is all but invisible. This is probably not an issue for an IB regular. Or the head of the Duelists. You are coming across as sounding rather elitist, even if that is not what you intended.
[/B]

I'm sorry if I sounded elitist, that was not my intention. And I will acknowledge that Martel can replace what he's lost but ... so can everyone at some point. If you lose your black cloak, go get a plain cloak and go on the hunt for someone who can die it black.

As for advancement. You should also think of your friends and the stories you've told as advancement. Will Deirdre be less able to call on Martel for aid now? nope. Will Martel hate Morte and less? Nope. :) Part of the game thats hard to think about is the fact that there is no absolute advancement. You may reach the IB, but that just opens up the pool of people who want to pull you down. Heck, I think of enemies as advancemnt too. If they hate you enough to want to hurt you, you've done something interesting to them. And that leads to better stories.

One thing that I think would help the game (and help people make this kind of transition) is a more concreat favor/influence system. but its really hard to code. What if instead of saying 'I have this red brocade gown that FooFoo gave me', you could say 'I did a favor for FooFoo and now have some low level of favor with her'. Would that help if there was a solid number there? just trying to think of ideas to move people away from a 'pile of loot' to a 'pile of friends' way of thinking.

-=- Matt

[Jillian]

Okay, my rage has cooled down from when I first read these posts, and I can see things clearly now. I agree that the game will go on without all the food/clothes/etc. etc. But for regulars at the IB it's a lot easier to attain these things. Good clothes, and rare items are hard to find for most that have never been to the IB or don't go there often at all. So if these items aren't going to be replaced, than I will be quite mad but it is certainly nothing to leave the game over.

[KathyN]

Seems like we ought to be able to compromise here.
It's the old style clothes that cause problems and
if you've tried to put a piece of clothing from the 'olden' days into a wardrobe or pouch and seen the 'object is too heavy to put' error message you've seen exactly why these things must go. Players who have access to plenty of fancy clothes
but complain about other peoples complaints that they are losing the few 'nice' things that they managed to get are being very insensitive about the issue. Now should every item be replaced without question? I don't think the everyday guest needs more than one of each item of specialty clothes if they had them... if you have a massive collection of brocade gowns don't ask for them all to be replaced. Some of the things were obtained through roleplaying which is what this game is trying to reward right? It would seem reasonable to replace those items with close substitutes.
Now many of you 'youngsters' never heard or met Master Ali Jahib (think that was his name) the travelling trader that showed up prior to the Winter Ball with lots of goodies. We were told at the time he made periodic visits. It's high time he or someone similar showed up! Players who never had the chance to trade with him can have the opportunity and those who are losing something can get a new item. That makes sense I hope?
Can we try to make this into a 'win win' thing not act like it's a punishment or totally ignore the Roleplaying and meaning behind the items that people are afraid of losing? :)
Thanks,
Kathy N
(big hug to Twulf's player who has first hand Real Life experience of loss)

[Twulf]

Posted by skitten:
"I really do not believe that CE sat in their offices, chortling evilly, asking themselves "How can we torture and torment our players today?" "

Ok, really, have you seen the shark that Aumakua has?? If that isn't intimidation, I'm not sure what is. LOL! J/K!! Of course they wouldn't sit around and try to make player's lives hell, they wouldn't have paying customers then. And definately, bring back the trader. He was pretty cool. There's always that saying that you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs. It just depends on how many eggs CE wants to break I suppose for the size of the omlette they want to make. Now, just think, if instead of losing clothing, people got the wrong clothing...well, I will just leave that to your own imagination.

Twulf's player

[Monkey]

Originally posted by alysa
Since Ermengarde is taking a vacation (did she see this coming?), how about you take the Royal Tailor (or equivalent) out of mothballs to make 1:1 exchanges?

I think she took a vacation because she was the direct target of player hatred. Though now that Skotos has become that target. . . .

[Ra'Dorcha]

Originally posted by KathyN
Now many of you 'youngsters' never heard or met Master Ali Jahib (think that was his name) the travelling trader that showed up prior to the Winter Ball with lots of goodies. We were told at the time he made periodic visits. It's high time he or someone similar showed up!

This is a wonderful suggestion. And your idea is perfect. Make this into a 'win-win' situation. I am not sure what type of plot is planned for the next 3 weeks regarding our clothes missing, and frankly I don't see an easy way to come up with a way for someone to sneak into our rooms and strip us while we sleep. But all this will pass.

Remember, Favor is not something that can be held. If someone gave you a nice item in exchance for something do did, that is not the same as having favor with someone. I would like to think there are at least 5 characters who have access to the IB with whom Ra' has favor. Have they given him any material possessions? Nope. Have the taught him skills and given him information? Yes. Have they made me a better RPer and given me great memories of events, you bet.

I do not write this is belittle people who collect items. We each have our own goals for our characters. Some want to be in the IB, some want to get married, some want to get a furry cod piece, whilst others of us don't care about those things and just want knowledge. Both sides of this agrument need to remember we each are different and have different things we like about this game.

Okay, I'm starting to get long winded, so I'm ending this.
But remember, as players lets always try for the 'win-win' solution.

Idly mused by Ra'

[Catharsis]

Originally posted by alysa

You are completely ignoring the indirect problem -- what these few possessions mean in a game where advancement is all but invisible. This is probably not an issue for an IB regular. Or the head of the Duelists. You are coming across as sounding rather elitist, even if that is not what you intended.
[/B]

Hardly.

I think it was Kvalhion's post who actually hit the point on the head. ITEMS are NOT important to Marrach. This isn't Everquest.

I play Catharsis as well as other characters. Until she was knighted, Catharsis had TWO sets of clothes: everyday swordwork wear and a formal dress. She didn't have a single other thing beyond her sword and Battleguild items. Did she get gifts? yes - she either ate them or passed them along as gifts to others.

Basically, I'm trying to point out that you can get around just FINE in this game without items. Matt said that quite well ... if Martel wakes up one day without a single item, oh well - he knows how to work to get more. Martel has the influence and rank in the castle, an no item or items will change that.

I have seen newly awakened with stashes of clothing, furniture, foods, etcetera. Does this make them special? Hardly. If anything, this LOWERS their favor in the castle in the eyes of those above them.

So perhaps advancement is invisible. It is supposed to be. I might be an apprentice to Mistress Zia, but aside from my jewelry kit, that's it (hypothetical!). I don't even think the seamstress apprentices HAVE anything to show for their 'rank' in the outerbailey other than their skill.

What really matters in the game this is entire concept of 'favor'. Is there a honored guest who's a good friend of yours? Perhaps you are Mistress Ermengarde's favorite apprentice? Does Elea pull you aside for Eme lessons even when she doesn't have the time? Or in my case, does Dame Catharsis take you aside to speak to you or ask you to run errands, or does she treat you like everyone else? THESE are the things you should be seeking in the game. That's what Marrach is about.

So no, I'm not being elistist. I'm trying to make a point that these really little minor tiny things that people are ranting, crying and pulling their hair out over (OOC - I haven't been IC for several days to know what's going on there) are just that. Minor. There's a whole game that depends on so much MORE than mere items.

And as a side note, yes I play Dame Catharsis. I also play a few alts, either low or middle in the outer bailey - so I'm not speaking from on high, I'm speaking as a player who has to go recloth half her characters.

Leah

(and yes, I believe that those key items - props, if you will - that help you define your character, should be replaced. My very first post on this topic hoped for that.)

[Faruq]

Originally posted by Kvalhion
That said, I have also seen some pretty bad customer service in various games, and I think this is not being handled well at all. Some people DO play games for items, and when roleplaying, some items really become special and priceless.

To put it blunty, I have no sympathy at all for the people who are complaining about having lost their stash of 300 foods and are facing the loss of their 500 brocaded gowns.

I do, however, feel for the people who have special items given to them on special occasions or from special people. Why? These sorts of items become touchstones of fun RP from the past -- reminders of gorgeous scenes, good friends, awe-inducing special events and the like.

My character has two old-style clothing items and had one old-style food item of importance. Of the clothing items losing the black boots is an annoyance only -- they were there to complete an ensemble (although having Ermengarde go missing for a month just as he's facing losing the boots is OOCly annoying -- she being the only one who could replace them with anything even remotely similar).

Losing the black wool cloak, however, is more than an annoyance. That black wool cloak is symbolic of his former love -- a woman that he was, in-game, going to marry, but who is now gone forever. It is a touchstone that has centered the character through a couple of recent crises. Similarly, a piece of marzipan that he lost was a sweet reminder of somebody else -- a gift from the heart that touched his heart.

In both the last cases, the items are triggers for RPing. They give a sense of continuity to the character by providing reminders of his past. He has frequently offered the black cloak, for example, to under-dressed newly-Awakened women entering the courtyard -- something to keep them warm until they can get their own. He is then very careful to ask for the cloak's return. He then very carefully folds the cloak before putting it away again. It's that little ritual which has formed around the cloak which helps me define his character and helps me keep his past in mind. When that cloak vanishes in a puff of logic, so too does that touchstone to the past.

Other people had items of food from a wedding of two beloved characters. These are now gone, and so is their function to help remind us of fun RPed events in the past. Some have clothing from major castle events like the Winter Ball. There are a few people who apparently don't need these touchstones to make or maintain character. Others do. This should be taken into account when the next such move is planned.

Personally, I can live without the boots. It's a bit annoying to lose them, but hey, if they're causing system problems I don't mind getting rid of them and looking for replacements ICly. They aren't a major defining portion of my character, after all (and, indeed, are barely a minor defining portion).

I really do miss my piece of marzipan, however. I would like for it to be replaced. And, when the time comes for old clothes to go poof, I would like the black cloak replaced OOCly with a new-style black wool cloak simply because it is such a defining portion of my character's past (and therefore personality).

[Catharsis]

Originally posted by Dariel
Now, Catharsis, what you wrote is about on the same level as those posts you have been attacking. You're getting upset, emotional, irrational and downright vicious. Again, I personally just nod to that and think you have a right to your point of view -- however, so has everyone else.

Yes, you see that would be why I said IN that post that I knew I wasn't doing much good by posting. The actually goal was to let people know that they might be pissed, but they're also pissing a large of other players who until I posted were staying either polite or silent. I made a point, I don't regret it at all. You'll note that every post since then has been completely calm and rational and working to help people understand the importance aspects of the castle - or at least what I was told was important when I started this game.

So I expressed my view. I never said no one else could - I merely expressed my view that hearing them express their view in the manner in which they were doing it was ticking me off. Their point was made. My point was made. Both views said.


The main problem with that post however, is the unspeakable arrogance you display. Basically, you waltz in and tell people you're better than them, then proceed to commit to the same crime you just accused the others of.

Whoa.

Yes, as I already said just a few lines up (take two), I committed the same crime. I acknowledged that in my post that I was doing that. Do you think I wasn't aware of that? Sheesh.

But HOW am I displaying unspeakable arrogance? Are you confusing me with my main character Catharsis? I could have posted that as Anonymous or some made up name ... would you have reacted the same? I hope so, since this is OOC here.

Basically, I just don't see how me expressing my opinion is unspeakable arrogance. Am I not allowed to rant either? (fall back into previous point made twice now on how I know I was ranting and knew it was causing more flames, yadda yadda yadda, my point was still made, badly or not, take three)


That's not cool, period.

Oooo - nice to know I'm not the only judgemental one here =) before you go around accusing me of stuff (which I did, yes I admit this, take four) watch your own words, please.


Without wanting to sound too patronizing I'd like you to go back and read your posts again. Do you have a point? Yes. Did you ruin it by getting all bitchy over it? Yes. I'm the last person to endorse political correctness, but as you already noted, your post is not helping the problem. And if you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem.


I don't need to reread it. I know exactly what I wrote and edited it plenty before posting it. Yes my words were harsh, but that doesn't mean I have no idea what I said or the degree of effectiveness/ineffectiveness in the style of my writing (take five).

Yes I had a point. Yes I ran it over. Yes I know I ran it over. and yes AS I ALREADY NOTED MY POST DID NOT HELP THE PROBLEM.

Um wait. So you DID see that I acknowledged that and yet you feel like making this point five times over to me again? Huh?

So other than saying I'm uncool and irrational ... what did you really want to post in reponse to my post that I didn't already say? I'm really curious here, since all I see is a post slamming me and telling me something I already said I knew.

That it didn't help anything? read on:

Personally, I'm pleased to see that the irrational insane posts (yes judgemental and proud of it) that I was complain about have essentially ceased since I posted. Some dumb luck, perhaps some coinciedence, maybe just because those people haven't gotten home from work to flame me back :D
So maybe it wasn't me, but at least we seem to be getting on to another track here and away from the general yelling and calling CE bad names. That's really all I wanted. I hope it stays that way.

I'm 99% certain I've made my point in here enough times.

Leah

[Dariel]

Leah...

Okay. Maybe it did get lost somewhere in my ranting about you posting your own rant against better knowledge.

I can understand provoking to get a certain response, but the provocation is moot when you admit to doing something you yourself perceive as wrong. So basically, the reason why I had to make this point is because I do not see the sense in doing what you have done (and I won't discuss it at length if it helped - it might, it might not, as you said yourself).

Now, on to the unspeakable arrogance. In the post we are discussing as well as in the post at the top of page six, you basically say that you are playing this game 'right' and the others who care about their stashes of clothing one way or the other are playing it 'wrong'.

You say you only want to point out that material things don't have to be the axis this game revolves around -which is certainliy true- but then you tell people this game was not supposed to work that way.

So no, I'm not being elistist. I'm trying to make a point that these really little minor tiny things that people are ranting, crying and pulling their hair out over (OOC - I haven't been IC for several days to know what's going on there) are just that. Minor. There's a whole game that depends on so much MORE than mere items.

That, I must tell you, is your point of view, and I actually share it and (of course) consider it valid. But I am sorry to inform you that this opinion is not the only valid opinion. The game might not be supposed to work that way, but if the engine allows for playing a bartering merchant, and people take up that 'profession', maybe make it even a core concept of their character, then they are not at fault for doing something the game allowed them to do.

There is no one to blame, Leah, neither them nor us nor CE.


Oh, and I am not being judgemental, I am only repeating the sentiment you yourself stated for the sixth time. Your post was far from cool, and neither was the sarcastic one that followed it. But yeah, I know, it's neither cool to bash CE for it, but if it really bugs you that much, if you really despise the whiners so greatly, then I am willing to share a rule I live by with you...

Kill it or ignore it - everything else only serves to increase its worth

There is enough bad blood and hysteria as is. As I stated before, there was neither sense nor merit to that post and all in all, I probably just hoped for a bit more substance and less steam.

Getting a point across is seldomly a problem (except for me), but doing in a way to make the opposition understand is.


-Uli-

[Malik]

Before this degenerates any further, I have some things to say.

First off, this is a pretty nasty thread considering that Aumakua started it with an apology. We understand that some of you are upset but that point has already been made abundantly clear and, as others have already suggested, complaining really isn't productive past a certain point.

That said, let's address some of the issues presented here:

Clothing: As Aumakua has already pointed out the phasing out of clothing will NOT be abrupt as the food. There is a storyline in place and the process will not be an immediate one. You should all become familiar with it as it reveals itself.

Motivation: There seems to be some sentiment that these changes are in some way related to what went on with Ermengarde and that couldn't be further from the truth. This is not a reaction but merely a coincidence. We in no way intended this to be a sanction or an "evening out" tool; it was done for the overall betterment of the game. Again, we apologize for the lack of communication and promise to try and do better in the future.

Pay-For-Play: It has been suggested that this sort of purge should have taken place before Castle Marrach went pay-for-play and that may be. However, that we did it after the point of pay-for-play was a deliberate decision. You see, we wanted to wait until after the player purge of those who did not join us for pay-for-play because there would be fewer player and therefore fewer items.

A final thought: Although some of you have indeed lost some "special" items what has been left in their stead are vastly improved systems for almost all functionality. Despite what may have been clumsy, and incentive even, implementation this was ultimately done to make this game better for you, the players. Please try to enjoy the fruits of our talented engineers and game developers rather than dwelling on the (already acknowledged) negatives of their implementation.

Malik

PS: The forums are not a meant to be a place for people to flame each other and the game but rather a tool for effective communication about the good and bad goings on in our game and community. That doesn't mean you can't criticize but if we continue to see the sort of nasty baiting and divisive posting that has been prevalant the last few weeks we will take action. Remember, you attarct more flies with honey than vinegar. :)

[Umichan]

Alright. I had a good sleep and cooled off... :(

Yes, I am a whiner, I am too emotional, and my brain does not seem to catch things clearly at 3 am (which was approx. the time I made that last post in that thread and yes I seemed to have missed the detail about the pouch), and you would ask anybody who spoke to me yesterday and they'd all tell you I was hysterical. And I admit I am too attached to the game and that I should have tried finding solutions instead of posting useless whining and I know I angered some people.

And I apologize.

However Leah, I have to admit that your post was a bit too harsh. I am conscious that you (and other players) are getting pissed off at all the whining on the subject. I would have appreciated that you emailed me or sent me a PM instead of publicly attacking me on the board (ok, maybe I am taking things a bit too personal again... I am not the only one you were speaking about in the post). By the way this is directed to all; you have a problem with me, tell me! Send me an email, seek me on ICQ, anything! Just tell me. I am no mind reader, and neither am I perfect. If people don't tell me what they don't like in my attitude, how can you expect me to change those things? And this does not apply to me only; everybody have problems with other people, and it's not the first time I see this type of post (or ooc discussion).

Again, I am not perfect. I'm only human, and like every human beings, I make mistakes. So again, let me apologize to those I have offended.

I'll stop the personal ranting about myself now before I start writing my autobiography. :D

Gaby :p

[Atama]

I'm not apologizing at all. I made my feelings perfectly clear, and did not attack anyone. I believe my prior sentiments reflected the feelings of most people in the castle. I will agree that removing the old clothing should be done, if it is indeed causing this ridiculous lag that is ruining everything, but I also stand by my belief that it was handled incorrectly. Hey, I think everyone's learning though, player and CE alike.

[Umichan]

Hey, didn't say I was apologizing for telling the way I felt, but for my overeacting and the pointless whining I made. I'm still very disappointed at the situation and stuff. Anywaaaay...

[Aleena]

Hi all! I will make this short and sweet. I love this game. I love my character and her friends. I don't love that my one and only green gown will go poof soon, but Aleena will go on and hopefully the people she (and I) care about will stay. To me the people make the game, not the objects.Now admittedly I can see where loosing sentimental objects would be very upsetting. I have no answer for this..only that I put my faith in CE to make it right. Now everyone take a deep breath...exhale slowly and let's play!


*Big hugs*Heather

[Kyle]

Its not insane... we have favor that can replace the clothes... If ALL items went away, it still wouldnt change how others feel about us... well uh... the wandering around naked for a while probobly wount help...

[Mintle]

I'm very sorry if I've upset people, regarding all this. I honestly don't know if I said something nasty, whining, or flaming.

Right or wrong, I'm still deeply upset about this issue. Maybe it's too soon for me, maybe I'm just too attached to my character's material goods. I don't know.

For those that care, please bear with me. I am trying to come back, trying to still enjoy Marrach. Just because I'm absent doesn't mean I've left. If I decide it just isn't happening, I will post a message saying so.

Wounded,
Laurel

[Kiyoshi]

I've been thinking about this whole losing items a lot. Now, is it just me or wasn't collecting cool items fun for you? This game was getting king of old for another character of mine, because she had done just about everthing she could in the game. Now that these items she worked so hard to get are going to disapear but I am so totally okay with that! She gets the fun of getting those items again! And then there is the added bonus of all these new skills! ^.^ Even though I don't have any! And CE! Think about my idea of the calligraphy skill!
So, I disagree with all of you! ^.^ I wouldn't care either way. Sure, I do love my items, but I am perfectly okay with them going away if they have the wrong codes, and if that evil lag will go away!

[Kyle]

Gee mintle... I havent actualy read anything between the very first page and this last page yet... Im sorry if what I said was taken as a response to anything else you said that I didnt read (yet). I do understand how you feel, I was atatched to 5 particular food items that went away. I dont feel it as strongly as you maybe... but as people seem to be, we are different people playing for different reasons... Helping people is what brings me joy. Ever wonder why kyle is ultra busy? Maybe you can find me and ask me for favors ic. That would make me happy, and if it makes you richer... well, we both win.

as for kiyoshi, I totaly agree...

P.S. bring back the old smilies.