#18: Steal this Article!

[skitten]

What happened to page two of this thread? My really long post from last night is missing.

Thanks,
Jennifer

[jwalton]

Low-key villiany and knowing how and when to start conflict is something that is hard to do right. If you are too mild in your opposition to "The Man" or whoever, you're just seen as annoying and immature. However, if you are too direct and disruptive, the other players will dislike you for messing up the game and acting "OOC" (because real people, of course, aren't bastards).

Getting a kind of balanced "villainy" is something that I've be slowly working on lately with Yuen and the Forgetters. They might not seem, on the surface, to be villians, but they are truely what you might call an opposition group. Though they have yet to take any action or actively promote their beliefs (and I don't know when or _if_ they ever will), they are the first group in Castle Marrach that has formed in direct opposition to another one (in this case, The Rememberers). Of course, if the Forgetters came out and actively tried to disrupt the work of an established Guild, most inhabitants of the Castle would soon recognise them as "villians" and shy away.

Instead, the Forgetters, for now, are really, really low-key villians, protected by the right to freely express themselves and limited to a kind of philisophical "Cold War" of sorts against those who oppose them. Of course, the Forgetters, just like any other group, don't consider themselves to be "evil" or even out for their own good. They are only working towards what they see as the needs of the Castle. They just don't believe in all this Remembering stuff.

Where that takes them, of course, is wide open.

Later.
Jonathan (Yuen)

[ShannonA]

A few replies to the newest TT&T got squished because of some continuing (and very annoying) disk problems. We're working on them. In any case, here's what folks said before, from a pseudo backup. (And feel free to repost them under your own name. I can edit them out of this posting later ...)

Oh, be sure to read KathyN's commentary on page one of this thread too.

Thus Spake Retribution:

Well, as the villian mentioned in the article (Thanks, I'm honored... I was hoping I would be mentioned in time ) I suppose I should comment. The question asked at the end of the article was 'Am I too nice?' In many ways, I do believe Retribution is too nice at times. Mainly do to the fact that he is so outnumbered during conflicts, and has no way to back up what he says. In time this might change, but in the meantime, he has to lay off, and not be AS mean, as he could be.

Another good point I believe in this article is the lack of rewards/objectives for villians. Quite simply, Retribution has very little chance of getting into the Inner Baily, expectually after insulting the Queen, and acting the way he does. In many ways, this makes things boring for me the player. He isn't involved in much because he sees it as 'silly' and pointless.

Although when there is conflict in the story, it does get extreamly interesting. This also makes it more interesting and an enjoyable experiance for others, and that makes the game fun and succsessful(sp?) for all. A story without a villian is boring indeed and resembles Telitubies, although even that show has some conflict.

Well, I think I've ranted enough on this subject, time for be to go back sitting in the dungeon.

Retribution - Menace of the castle

Thus Spake JeffCrook:

Excellent article this week, Shannon.

Am I too nice in the Castle. As I haven't played in forever, I can't say, but when I was there, I wasn't a nice boy. I was rather obnoxious. I made fun of duelists. It was a hoot.

In Qigung, I have built this into the game, along with the rewards and everything. Darkness rules the land. Who will rule the darkness? There are advantages to either path.

And there are more minor sources of natural conflict. Favor is one of them. The other I won't announce here, as it is a plot of later stages.

But most importantly, each faction has justification for their actions. The Xao, the Fong, and the Chan all ruled the empire at one time or another. In Chan-la, you (the player) can't point a finger at a Xao sorcerer and say he is evil because he is working to place a Xao on the throne. You (the character) can
point that finger, and boy howdy can you mean it when you call him evil. And boy howdy can the Xao sorcerer think you are evil for thwarting his attempts to place what he considers the best qualified leader on the throne. Everyone can point a finger at the Zhi cultist, but the Zhi cultist can claim that he
is simply living in the real world, while everyone else is lost in dreams of a world that can never return. He is bowing to the reality of the situation, which is a fundamental philosophy appreciated even by
those who oppose him.

Oh, it's yummy.

Thus Spake Skitten:

I loved this article. I really did. I play Elea, the Sorceress' first apprentice. I am not nice. I'm not evil, but I'm not nice.

Well, Ok. I'm nice to my friends. However, those friends are few and far inbetween. Though, I will treat people with respect until they prove to me that they do not deserve respect. (And believe me, a lot of
them, in Elea's eyes, don't deserve respect.)

But... I want to point out something here.

Glancing 'disinterestedly' at someone is NOT evil or mean!

It means... I look over at someone who does not interest me. Don't break character to tell me "Ow, Elea. That really hurt. Way to scare the newbie." If you don't like it, react in character.

What that person did not know/realize is that I -did- notice that they entered and were newly awakened... and none of the other four characters in the room reacted at all. So, I reacted in a way to let the person know that I had seen them and to let the others, who might have been AFK know she was there.

I have been accused of being cold, aloof, bitchy, mean, etc... Just because I'm not playing a namby-pamby nice guy. Well, you know what? I'm human. I, as a person, am not nice all the time.

Thus, neither is Elea.

I did not like Zero for IC reasons. I did not cry when he died. In fact, when confronted by Charmiam who accused me of being glad that he was dead, my response was something like "Yes. I'm glad. A fitting end for an oath breaker. A coward's death." Needless to say, that did not go over well with her.

However, I have no problem with Zero's player. He's a neat guy. All my ire/dislike/aloofness came from IC reasons.

When I first introduced the concept of someone paying Elea for her time/work... I was greeted with much astonishment and reproachment and basically told, "You should be helping me out of the goodness of your heart." Well... no. It doesn't work that way. I want to be paid and recognized. This is a game about favor...

So, I guess, this is my long-winded way of saying "Just because you aren't nice, doesn't immediately mean that you are evil." It means you have a different personality and you stand out.

The two best Roleplaying compliments I ever got were these:

Myrth: OOC - Well, some of us get scared when you walk into a room. You make us nervous.

Morte: OOC - God, Elea. You are so aloof, it hurts!

YES! My job here is....

... just beginning. *evil grin*

Thanks,
Jennifer
(aka Elea)

[KathyN]

Today's question "Is my charactor too nice?" re. the way game playing has developed in Marrach has certainly made me consider both my chars. and their individual personalities. I am trying for two different sorts of women with Cassandra and Judith; one is very concerned with being well-mannered and civil to everyone while the other doesn't much care about anyone's opinion except for those who matter i.e. her fellow watchmen/women and her friends. One is rather timid the other bold, one prudish, the other lusty. One will avoid conflict, the other doesn't mind wading into it. That is as long as I am tuned into who I am role-playing and what the situation calls for. I wonder if sometimes we come to the game not quite ready to deal with the stress of conflict and if that affects things? Or other days all you want to do is find something/someone to hit!
What is going on IRL can certainly affect game play!
The way I think about it is we must give ourselves and our fellow players permission to be a real 'bastard' if you want to be or to be a 'wimp' (not that you'd think of your charactor in those terms!) http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif
I remember being at a Q&A session many years ago with an actor who played a villian on a popular TV series. Someone asked him how he felt playing the 'bad guy'. The actor responded that his charactor did not feel he was a 'bad guy' and that in the charactors philosophy he was actually a 'good guy' so he didn't have any qualms portraying him!
We are a growing community; perhaps as we get to know each other better it will be easier to handle conflict and be willing to enter into it without worrying about whether you have hurt someones feelings IRL.
Thanks for the article,
Kathy

[Dittersdorf]

Regarding the Evil is Good article:
I think the major problem is there aren't enough *resources* to be a villian.

For example, say I did your hypothetical situation and made a character that wanted to kill the Queen. What could I do about it? Not even Honoured Guests can enter the Inner Bailey at present, the only weapon I know of that you can kill someone with without declaring a duel is locked away for only 'honorable' people, and if you decided to walk in and just talk about killing the Queen you'd have the Watch grab you by the scruff of your neck (with more or less no possibility of evading them).

[There's of course the fun anonymous heretical note, but we have those already. Kudos to whoever wrote that Dollhouse one.]

Very rarely does someone who theatens the life of another have the resources to back that threat up.

Now, I'm not saying every person should be handed a bottle of poison upon exiting their rooms -- the Angry Types still need to be kept from running amuck -- but at least give some more options for players who want to be Evil. I think this partially connects to just giving more options to everybody; in such a restricted environment (doubly so because it's in beta and so many skills and locations are closed off) it's natural for people to be reticent about trying something off-the-wall.

This situation isn't exactly encouraging to budding villians. Some have made do by making things up or just being surly to authority, but there's only so far you can get with mere words.

- Jason, who may create an evil alt someday if the profession ever gets interesting

[Sin]

Being evil is fun. I'm evil just by creeping people out and making them paranoid. And noone ever knows WHAT plot I'm in. Plus, even evil characters can get ahead if they are nice to the right people...

MWAHAHAHAHAHA... http://www.skotos.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Morte]

I am not EVIL... I am... Focused. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif


May The Shadows Keep You All.