We want feedback!

[Dusty]

Alright, let's have it. Feedback people we want feedback. What are ya likin? What's frustrating? What's confusing? What do you have questions about? What's broken?

The more feedback we get the better cuz then we can refine things and make everything not only go smoothly, but down right spiffily. :)

Of course spiffily is a word, silly,
Dusty :D

[Asmod]

Well, there's the whole ... not bieng able to login thing. It seems to happen whenever I'm at work. I always get a "Lazy slacker get back to work" error. I don't seem to have that problem at home, however... so i'm going to go back there at 6 PST and try logging in to check it out from there.

I'll give you more feedback then :P

[KathyN]

So far, when I have logged in under IE, fi I try to move the window to a corner of my screen, it totally crashes every window I have open.
In Netscape it appears nothing is working.

:(

KathyN

[Asmod]

Ok, i was able to log in for a bit here at work anyways. I'm not totally sure if i missed something, but i couldn't even seem to get a character created.

I started on the high plateau before some long haired beast and a portal. The beast said it wished to speak with me, then promptly shut up. The only reaction I could invoke from him was a "hello".

examining the area, beast, and portal led to no clues. I could not leave in any cardinal direction as it said they weren't available exits, so I tried entering the portal. "Go portal" made me walk to it, and "Enter portal" gave a single blank line with no other response. Anything else i tried with the portal informed me that it did not know my syntax/what i was trying to do. I got no further than that. What did i miss? I know i'm obviously overlooking something here. No character made yet.

Also, i noticed in the drop down lists... i beleive it was the "examine" drop down list.. only listed two items, "The room" (which worked fine) and "the spirit", to which if i tried that option it told me there was no such thing in the area.

[Asmod]

If i click on the map in the lower right corner, a tiny window (about 1x1 inches big) pops up with a black background and a broken display picture (Big red X).

[Kevin]

In the chargen, there is a command to get hints on what to do. Not everything is clear there at the moment, I fear, but it might help:

@hint

Cheers!

Kevin

[Jase]

Two words: Towering spire.

I already filed a bug related to a prox issue not allowing me to exit through either exits that I came in from. I ran out of options in the area I was stuck in and curiously decided to approach the darn thing, only to found myself in a loop. I'm proxed at the spire, type leave to get back to the trail, try to exit, and amazingly find myself proxed at the spire again. Hey, if this is in game, I'm amazed ;) Maybe it's some weird puzzle. But maybe it's a bug :P

Anyway, since it's late at night and everyone's sleepyby now, I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see how it goes.

AWESOME game so far. I actually expected MORE bugs in an alpha.

edit: Logged out and back in to see if it reset my prox. It did, but when I tried to exit the room, back to the spire I went. :( Ah well :)

[Naia]

Overall been having a blast, but sometimes finding the right syntax is a real drag.

It can be a real pain trying to figure out when to use harvest / pick / gather. Be nice if in examining the plants, for example, it said "You can pick berries from this bush" or "You can harvest bamboo from this patch". If you don't want to put it in the examine, put it in the @hint!

It also took a looong time figuring out how to cook. I'm sure you guys know this already, but I think it's important that by the time the game goes live, @hint and @help are considerably updated ;).

In all honesty, that's the only "issue" I've had with the game so far, and the Hosts have been fantastic in helping out. I agree with Jase -- for the first day of an alpha run, everything was pretty fantastic!

[Kalle]

Jase, I believe I found the issue. If you're still unable to move, file an assist to have you "released".

-Kalle.

[Caleese]

Whoa, I'm impressed!

I love the char generator! I left through the portal too early though, and couldn't go back to finish my char. I didn't miss much, but maybe some kind of warning before you enter?

Everything is awesome so far. I feel like I'm in a huge puzzle and there's so much to do and figure out. Good job!

[StaciD]

I had a blast yesterday nosing around and trying to figure things out. There were bugs, to be sure -- I got stuck in the prox of the spire too, and then there are several issues with combat like not being able to leave a fight with an animal, and long-tailed birds who won't attack you until they stop flying, which can take a loooonog time and yet you can't leave the fight -- but that's what alpha's about, figuring out where those problems are so you can smooth them out.

Chargen was charming, though I agree that the @hint command needs to be more prominant. I had to bug someone over IM to figure out what the heck I was doing at first.

More information needs to be available about what to do with resources and crafting. I know part of the challenge is figuring it out yourself, but it's frustrating playing "guess the verb" when you're not sure if the hemp you're trying to turn into rope or fabric or whatever will actually do that yet, no matter what verb you use. Is my chunk of salt of any value? I can't grind it, or use it to salt my meat, but the well of souls doesn't recognize it as a resource either. So I'm stuck lugging this thing around knowing it's got to have some value, but clueless about how to use it. Why can I gut a deer and a lizard, but not a bird or a fox? It'd be nice to have some clue when I try and fail whether it be "you're not skilled enough" or "you don't have the right tool" or "it's been dead to long."

All around, the biggest problem I saw was with the help files. I know you've said they're incomplete, but even what is there is often vague and unhelpful, particularly in the faction and combat sections. Talking about "roof factions" doesn't help much when you don't define the term, or what its basic function is. And combat is really confusing at first and could use a step-by-step breakdown of the process, along with a full summary of the commands you can use for armed and unarmed combat. (By the way, I think the option of using "act" in a fight is a great inclusion and should make combat more dramatic.) Maybe you should have someone who's not been breathing these concepts for months and months do the write up? It helps to have a little distance when you're writing help docs.

I think that's it for now. Great job, all of you!

[KathyN]

Had fun once I got my pc to stop blowing away the window.
Agree with what Staci said about animals/corpses.
Think that figuring out how to do things is part of the fun, although it can get frustrating.
I get the idea that banding together in factions leads to greater progress which is fantastic!

Good game!

KathyN

[Kalle]

First of all, thanks everyone for the awesome feedback! It's very, very helpful to hear your thoughts and we hope you will continue giving it throughout these seventeen days of alphaness.

Secondly, yes, documentation is sadly lacking. Pitifully lacking in fact. It is a very high priority thing that unfortunately has been nigh on impossible to tackle prior to this point, for various reasons. Your assists, ideas, bugs, and feedback is a tremendous help in allowing us to place our focus on what is important to the players rather than what we think is "eh, cool."

Thirdly, the top priorities right now is making the existing things "easier to understand," be that by simply adding a "type 'pick hemp plant' to gather some hemp!" note to the exam of an object, or by attacking code to include lists of "you can and can't"'s.

Regardless, we have definitely noted that the biggest problem with the game right now is lack of documentation for functionality and we will address this as hastily as our poor brains can manage.

Thanks, yet again. You're all awesome.

-Kalle.

[Jase]

I love this damn game. If you get me stuck on Skotos again I'm going to... to... Play it I guess..

Yay to MV :D

[Ra'Dorcha]

Hunt the verb is definitly something that can be frustrating. I mean, here I've got all this hemp and I can't figure out how to change the clay into a bowl or roll the leaves ...

One thing that I'd personally like to see is not too much documentation. I think anyone would agree that you don't want to spend a majority of your time hunting for what the command is. But speaking as an 'achiever' part of the fun of raising skills is that discovery. Suddenly after skinning deer for so many times, it occurs to you that perhaps you know enough to now turn that pelt into a fashionable toga.

I definitly liked the Character Generation once I got past that beast. It certainly gave me ideas ... the character generator, not the beast.

What would I like to see? Clothing, more basic things to turn resources into. Definitly want to see what other projects can be started. I'm sure you've already got plans for all that so I'll leave you with, "Good job".

[Jase]

Is there a way to set our home (where we wake up) inside the tents/huts we have built? :) I mean, can it be done or implimented in future updates?

[Ra'Dorcha]

Perhaps a small bonus to healing while asleep inside a tent of your tribe. Higher bonus for sleeping inside a clay hut. And better for sleeping in whatever type of house would be next. You get the idea.

[Kalle]

Originally posted by Jase
Is there a way to set our home (where we wake up) inside the tents/huts we have built? :) I mean, can it be done or implimented in future updates?

If you type "faction stats", you will see a list of advancements at the bottom -- presuming your faction is beyond temporary, that is.

The advancements contain, among other things, guilds and homes.

Home ideologies require that you have one structure/building claimed. When someone joins a home ideology (joins the household, so to say), their log-in-place is set to inside of that structure.

-Kalle.

[Jase]

Thanks! :D

[Jase]

The Sharp Rock is an invaluable tool, we all know this.

But what of the deer's horn? Can we get some good uses from it? Attach it to a javelin for a sharper cleaner point? Can we use it in combination with paste to do primitive tattoos like the tribes of today do with their inks and jagged instruments of torture? ;)

Just some suggestions/questions/comments/annoying bits of ramble :)

Always having fun in the MV sun,

[Kalle]

You wouldn't believe the amount of ideas we've received for the various available items. Horns will be craftable into a number of things, and to help you all out with not having to guess-the-combo about things we haven't set up, we're going to say things like "new thing craftable with horns" in the Updates thread.

So stay tuned.

[Asmod]

Well i know you personally wanted some feedback from me Kalle, so here's a little bit from what i've experienced.

First off, I've GREATLY ENJOYED the crafting system. It can be a little frustrating sometimes, but i'm sure any minor quirks will be smoothed out. All in all, its a blast. I DEFINATELY look forward to a lot more expansion on this, it's so far the most enjoyable aspect i've seen.

What i've DISLIKED the most is the combat system. It's very clunky and clumsy. It works well enough when the battle is very clear cut. But when you have multiple NPC animals in the same area, it quickly dissolves into a nightmare. I've had this problem a few times, but not as bad as has happened just a few moments ago.

A pack of four hunters decided to hunt deer. We came to an area with i think three deer.. it was decided on for whatever reason to attack the second deer. Two of us engaged the second deer. But as we were doing this, deer came and left. Our second deer suddenly became a different one in the qeue and one of our members ended up fighting a completely different fight. He killed one deer, then tried to join in our fight, and ended up engaging ANOTHER deer that had just wandered in.

I myself had to guess at which deer i was attacking as they entered and left. I would try to attack the first, second, third, ect., until it looked like i actually was attacking. Sometimes the emotes throw it off too. I might think i've stabbed my opponent, but i ended up just emoting that i stabbed a different deer. It was utterly frustrating.

A supposed four-on-one match ended in one dead deer, one unconcous clannie, and two injured and retreating others.

Another thing that has annoyed me that i think could use improvement is the consent system. So far i've failed to be able to consent to a single thing during combat, it keeps telling me that whoever i'm allowing or denying isn't doing anything. Every time someone offers me something it takes me at least five tries to get it. I don't think i've ever gotten "@accept from <name>" to work like it says. I'll always have to resort to "@accept cord" or some such. I beleive the consent system should be clear, quick, and simple.

Minor thing, but i'd probably enjoy a better parsing system, so instead of having to type out "Nod at Anodyne" i could type out "Nod at ano". It would find the first matching name that started with "ano" and target that. Granted you'd have to be specific enough to not get confused with other targets, but i've noticed Grendels Revenge works on this parsing system and it works quite well in my opinion. I sometimes find it a hassle to type out long or strange names when interacting with them (or objects).

I might be missing an existing command, but i've yet to find a way to easily check my own hunger, wearyness, health status, ect. I think it is needed. I'd hate to starve to death and not realize it.

Lastly, one thing i'm craving is an ability to match items... IE, "Match rocks" and it display all of the items matching "Rock" in the area, in order. It can *really* help when trying to determin which of multiple objects you need/want to interact with.

I hope this constructive criticism can help improve and build upon the game! I've really greatly enjoyed what little i've seen and experienced so far. I'll be sure to keep sending in any and all feedback as i come across it! :)

[KathyN]

Did you make the lizards suddenly much tougher and do more damage? I killed one easily a few nights ago and tonight it savaged me to unconsciousness. I also lost my turn but I don't think a full minute had passed before I lost it.

KathyN

[Sahra]

I would just like to throw all the kudos available to man at staff for making the game parser use, AND free emoting! It's like a dream come true! Greatest bloody thing I tell you!!

*showers staff with more kudos, hugs, smooches and all that neat stuff*

[March]

1) The staff has been awesome in responding to the most quirky requests, bug fixes, and adding small, incremental little gems each day. People go "Oooh! Five new things with animal skins... I wonder what they can be..!" Results in hours of hunting and experimenting with "turn my pelt into (foo)"

2) The faction system has allowed the players to set the tone and flavor of the game. Each faction is constantly changing, evolving, morphing, as new characters are created, leaders rise and fall, and factions and subfactions emerge, merge or purge.

3) Rather than 'where can I get a sword' (CM's battle cry of the newcomers), people are asking 'where can I find a sharp stone?' Answer: Ask Barduc!

4) Resource contention is working as you would expect, with tribes sharing or trading or hoarding and wasting to rot. However, in comparison to clay, bamboo and hemp, reeds are 'nice' but not necessary, and salt and milkweed are totally feeble (do you really need a white pot?). If these other resources have as-yet-undiscovered purpose(s) to make them more utilitarian, that would be good. Otherwise, they make a tribe centered around them the 'loser' in this early phase of the game. If that was what you were banking on stockpiling, trading or actually using, your faction's sort of out of it. Bamboo -and- hemp belonging to (or at least, being claimed by) one faction definitely adds conflict to the game but skews the production system greatly. It's not out of hand yet, but depending on how things go, I can see one faction possibly building rocket ships by the time another faction might have, say, a granary.

5) Mass combat with animals can be fixed (somewhat) if the animals were given a few randomly-generated adjectives: a scrawny rabid fox, a sleek wily fox; a tall noble deer, a short fleet deer; etc. Otherwise, as stated before, you cannot tell which deer is which, especially when new ones are wandering in all the time.

6) The gods rock. The prayer system rocks. The god-ball rocks. More to come, I'm certain.

7) Newcomers to the game have THINGS TO DO IMMEDIATELY! Self-paced activities. Skills they can develop without seeking 'permission' from anyone. It's a feeling of freedom to explore.

8) The game is highly addictive in the hunter/gatherer mode. If all you want to do is search for branches and sharp rocks, it's like the chicken pecking the buzzer to get the pellet. They'll keep doing it all day. Logfiles tend to be a zillion times longer than, say, CM, because of the amount of background searching people do (albeit CM's dueling system is spammy as heck too). But it often makes discussions in common rooms broken up and distracted. Like in CM, you want to segregate the spammy mechanistic stuff away from the roleplaying conversational stuff. I suggest making a common area or two that have no sand/ground/rocks to search through -- semi-spam-free zones. The Oasis might be one of them.

9) This game, during Alpha feels like it is a production game already. It rocks, it rules, it rolls! Woot!

10) People keep on saying it's a shame that the story will get wiped when the game goes live. In a way, I agree. It will be difficult for some of us to 'pretend' like we don't know how to make pots. Part of the competition of this early phase of the game has come from tribes and individuals one-upping each other in seeking new breakthroughs. Feigning that in a future play-through will be difficult to maintain. ("Oh, that's what a banana is good for? I never knew!") Bah! People also love the characters, personalities, events and stories we already came up with. What would a future game be without mighty Red or crafty Weed?

[Dusty]

Wow... extensive feedback there, March. I'll see if I can answer at least one quandary

Regarding Resources:

Yep, some resources are better than others, and will always be so. However, you can't do everything with hemp, or with bamboo, or with reeds, or wood, or iron, etc. Thus you have trade. And I think trade does a wonderful job in facilitating RP in our little canyon. Don't you. ;)

Also, some of the current resources have upcoming updates that'll make them as useful as they should be. So no, milkweed won't be a whole lot more useful. Sorry, there's only so much a humble milkweed plant can do. However... other things will very likely prove more valuable.

Keep the ideas and feedback coming folks. We're doing our best to make this *your* game. We just make things in the background. ;)

Bringing ideas to life,
Dusty. ;)

[Kalle]

First off, wow! Read through all the new comments and, yeah. Wow!

Regarding the swiping of the alpha world:

The current game is "free", in that it allows you to do everything with everything.

In the real game, a lot of the things that you can do simply by "figuring out the right object name", will be things that you need to learn through various ways:
1- inventing it; using a skill will involve a small chance of inventing a new item that is related to a) the item you are making, and b) the skill you are using to make it.

Example of this is in the game already -- mixing colors has a slight chance of you inventing a new color. This is the direction in which the game will progress, as things look right now.

Though that said, maybe inventing through figuring out the object name -is- a neat idea. Though it'd give the current alpha players a grave advantage over future players.

-Kalle.

[Ra'Dorcha]

Originally posted by Kalle
Example of this is in the game already -- mixing colors has a slight chance of you inventing a new color. This is the direction in which the game will progress, as things look right now.
I think you just raised the value of milkweed as people start mixing purely to try to discover new colors.

It will definitly be interesting to see how inventions work out. I think factions were people are more independant might actually suffer. If in your tribe each person wants to hunt, skin, and craft their own fur then your tribe will develop slower than the tribe where you have one or two less hunters but they bring all their kills back to camp where one person focuses on skinning the dead and one person focuses on crafting. It also sort of negates my earlier comment about how if you tell people they can make 5 new clothing items they will figure them all out but say they can make a few more and they will try a few options and might have that surprise when they see someone else in something they didn't think of.

Have you considered how you will introduce more privative items? Consider if you have people who would normally have learned how to make that kilt you just added because it's much easier to make than much they already can make. Must they learn it or are they given the knowledge as something they should have learned already?

[Dusty]

Belated response to March's point (10) regarding the wiping of the Alpha and Beta games.

Yes, we will wipe both Alpha and Beta at the end of each. This something we have discussed quite a bit over the past few months and we decided it was best so that when the game is in official launch stage everyone starts on as equal of a playing field as we can make it.

March brings up some good points though. Very true, it'll be hard for alpha and, eventually beta, folk to make their characters act like they know nothing of the game. So the solution is that we make the beta and final launches different enough so that a great deal of things are either new or changed so that you *won't* already know how to do everything, or know where everything is. One potential solution is to make Beta and Launch start in entirely different areas. ;)

Any suggestions you folk might have for accomplishing this would be most welcome, as always, but we are firming up some good ideas on this predicament.

That's Mr. Dusty to you!
Dusty. :D

[March]

My suggestion is to have a "remaking" of the world as a god-level plot, where the souls, and their memories, are taken off the world, when the gods decide the world needs improving.

Somewhat like taking an unfired clay pot, smashing it, and then putting it back in water. A new shape can emerge.

We might even have a planned apocalypse. Log in for doomsday! -- How will you live your final hours of the age?

When people come back, they might come back with the same character names and looks, and even have memories of the prior ages, but all are fresh-from-the-well.

Some characters might have marks from their accomplishments in earlier ages, having been earned during the mythic beginning of the world (i.e., a tip-of-the-hat and thanks to Alpha/Beta folks by allowing them some flair/color). These marks might be applied to their original character, or to a new character of their choice. Nothing hugely huge, but something to make them stand out and give them a bit of regard.

Perhaps there might be certain characters whose names, and memories, can be retired by the agreement of the player and the gods, like a baseball player's numbers, into some hall-of-fame pantheon of heros, heroines, or even not-so-noble-but-unforgettable-names. Infamous opponents and noble warriors might always be remembered with a scornful scowl or reverent salute. But they will never be seen again -- without it being the will of the gods.

I think the most important thing is that the roleplaying which is going on now might somehow be remembered in community spirit -- what did each of us contribute during this day and age to shape the ages to come? Will we be remembered or forgotten?

Would the naked dance of pig-nose Nitia be a tradition passed to new generations? Would Esa, the self-declared greatest hunter in the lands, be always spoken of for the twirl and hurl of her javelin? Would we always recall Korey's scampering, or Barduc-of-the-many-Rocks? Would the name of Dagrien-the-Maker be regarded with a repectful "Ho!" ... The list goes on.

The stories that have been told so far are truly cool and fantastic. I think that's the most important thing. We can always rebuild skills and huts and factions. But hopefully some of the traditions and tales will carry on.

Ho! The gods are mighty!

[Sahra]

Not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but am curious on what's going on with the tiny door. It's not available yet? Or is there some sly trick?

And have noticed a few people with skin tone and sharp teeth (i think) yet during chargen, you can't get them? Is the chargen still being played around with? Or does it vary?


:)

[March]

The skin tone and teeth are in-game rewards some characters are earning. How and why is something you might ask the characters or even gods themselves.

[Ra'Dorcha]

Is it based on some in-game stats? I definitly like that. Though it might be nice at Char Gen to pick if you are pale or dark skinned. Then if pale, after you have hunted a certain amount of time (i.e. hunting skills improve) the pale skinned might find tanned skin unlocking.

I do like unlocking such things as our characters go along. An interesting feature.

[KathyN]

Some mud-soaked body parts might be a little gross

You roll your mud-soaked green eyes.

KathyN ;)

[KathyN]

Is bark used for anything currently?
Could we have the numbers of possible weapons, clothes and other items (not the names of the things I mean like 6 weapons, etc.) that we might make?

Thanks for adding so much so soon!

KathyN

[Ra'Dorcha]

Definitly thanks for adding so much so quickly. Keep up that level or near to it and I'd bet you will have a fairly loyal player-base. One of the more frequent complaints you might read are the player base feeling the staff ignores then because they aren't constantly adding visible changes to the game.

[Jase]

Aria the large bird spreads its wings and takes off into the air.
> pet aria
You cannot get near to the air.

Heh. Downsides to having a flying pet. But I absolutely LOVE this taming system you guys put in. Brilliant.

[Asmod]

Some quick wants/observants on pets so far...

1) I think it's WAY too easy to tame pets right now. I'd like to see it adjusted up so you'd really have to work at it to get a pet. Even after you get one, i think it should take a lot of work to get it to listen to your commands as well, and even though your skill in taming new pets may get better and easier, getting NEW newly tamed pets to listen to commands should again begin with some difficulty (they're just broken) and then gradually phaze in. A master tamer would tame easily, but would still have to work with his pets to break them in, and not have a perfectly obedient pet in five minutes.

2) When a pet is tamed, it should stay in the area for a while at least. It's hard chasing down a newly tamed pet so you can command it to stay or follow sometimes >.<

3) I'd like to see a toggleable option for each pet... to either have it stay in the game world when you log out, continuing its last commanded action, (Guard here, stay, or just wandering, ect.) OR to have the animal log out with you when you log out. It would then reawaken with you when you log back in.

Can't wait to see more options on the pets coming up too! :) Great work, love 'em!

[Jase]

Agreed - logging out when you do, and coming back is cool, or guarding offline.. either way is awesome

As for taming, yeah it may be a bit easy, but this is alpha.. the full will undoubtedly be much harder.

[March]

It's easier to tame a deer and ride it than make a flute. :)

If you want to try to keep taming a critter, type: follow <critter>, that way if it goes somewhere, you can be dragged behind it.

Future feature for tamed animals: yell/call "<petname>", and if it is within hearing distance (adjacent location), it will come running to you. :)

[Jase]

Please please please let me mount my bird. And please please please don't take that the wrong way :P

[Asmod]

Originally posted by Jase
Please please please let me mount my bird. And please please please don't take that the wrong way :P You mount a bird with a long-feathered tail.
You decide to hang it above the firepit on the cave wall.
It looks cozier in here already.

:)

[Kalle]

In general, we've been generous with how things are in the alpha game.

The more I think about it, I believe the beta game will be a to-be-swiped public game where the various values are adjusted to sane levels. (Don't take that as an official statement though. The MV team is going to discuss where we go from here.)

The taming skill, as it increases, will allow you to command your little pet into attacking another character/animal or guarding a tent, etc Deliberately, the pets are very flighty with their loyalties right now. When you command a pet to "follow" or "stay", it will do so for an hour, after which it'll think "There, did my part of the bargain. Ciao!" This'll of course be more stable the more skilled you are.

But yes, even still, it's a tad too easy.

-Kalle.

[KathyN]

According to some easy research I did on the web, sinews were used to make primitive javelins. They are the same thing as cord really. So why can't we use them to make javelins? Many many uses for sinews!
On the picky side, sinews come from the tendon of the leg muscles, not the intestines.

:p
KathyN

[Sol]

The reason why some things were left out of character gen was to promote the idea of 'evolution' as time progresses and various activities are met and or successfully achieved.

Mind you I am not the 'coder' behind it, but we also want to try to keep Chargen as simple (or basic, depending on how you look at it) as possible. If we make it to complex at the begining, we fear some players may become frustrated with the game before even playing it.

And as you alpha testers already know, our Chargen was littered with all sorts of tiny bugs. :)

Hopefully Beta will go a whole lot smoother.

[Ra'Dorcha]

I'd bet Beta character generation should go better as we worked through those initial mistakes (like some of us who had no idea how to get past the beast). That evolving as we go along is a very neat feature. At the moment everyone seems very clustered together though. So most all of us seem to reach that evolutionary point about the same time. Though perhaps not, might just be how I interpret things.

[Kalle]

Originally posted by KathyN
According to some easy research I did on the web, sinews were used to make primitive javelins. They are the same thing as cord really. So why can't we use them to make javelins?

Because we haven't had time to fix that yet.

Many many uses for sinews!
On the picky side, sinews come from the tendon of the leg muscles, not the intestines.

Perhaps we should rename 'intestines' to 'waste' or something else. It's more or less symbolizing anything that is not meat, not bone, not fur, not scales, not skin, not horn, etc. ;)

-Kalle.

[KathyN]

Hmm waste seems inappropriate. Rename intestines or add tendons? I hope we can use the intestines for sausages or gut strings of a musical intrument! :cool:

Kathy N

[March]

I had suggested it be called gut cord, and a gut strand could be the basic item.

Gut cord, like catgut, is made from intestines of various animals (not just cats).