On the Subject of Villians

[Faer]

ok... I have heard alot of stuff OOC concerning some players who play villians in the game.

My hats off to them for trying to pull it off. I wish them the best of luck and hope that others will remember that in any good story, you have to have villians. And they come in all different sizes and shapes and colors too.

Just to name a few:

Victor
Retribution
Morte
Aquila
Kemuel

Now.. the sad thing I have heard is that some players have gotten some flaming emails from other players, some of which have been anonymous. I would kindly ask that if you have thought about flaming someone for playing a villain, to stop a moment and think. Playing a villian is actually quite hard to do.

My hats off to these players who have taken the time to create their devious characters. I do think that when I come back, I just might have to create an alt and try my hand at being a bad little character.

Just a kind reminder folks... this is a game, and in every book I have read, there is always a villian of some sort, be it human created, human based or imaginiative. Please .... lets cut out the OOC flames and emails, and give these players a nice round of applause for playing on CHARACTER FEARS.

*loud and resounding applause from this computer terminal located on the east coast of USA.*

Until the next time I can RP with each of you... good luck to your dark ways, and let the intrigues fly!!!

Lady Silverwolf

[Sin]

Aww...

I guess Sinistrelle doesn't get on enough to count anymore.

Oh well. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Kiera]

A resounding 'I could not agree more!' from here!!

It is the villians who give a hint of the darker side in all of us and make this place more interesting.

Patrice

[Faer]

I am sorry... I did only mention a few here... and I can not believe I would forget Sinistrelle so quickly...

*sheepish smile*...

I humbly ask your forgiveness... http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Druzilla]

I couldn't agree more. Without villains, there's no fun.

big round of applause to all you 'baddies' out there http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

[skitten]

There are a lot of good bad guys in the game and I, for one, would hate to see them go. However, I know that some people become emotionally invested in working against the BadGuy(tm)... until they begin to blur the OOC/IC and begin to believe that the Player is a bad guy, too.

This is not true. I know several of the players behind the bad guys. Actually, in a GM sense, I often brainstorm with them, thinking on how else to make life as interesting as possible for as many players as possible. To tell you the truth, we are out to mess with everyone. Not just one or two players.

And you guys don't think I'm an evil person, do you? Hmmm? [Hrm. Don't answer that.]

So, a polite request here... if you find yourself becoming overly upset about a badguy character, take a few steps back as a player and regain your perspective. This is a game. Those players who are being the EvilNastyBadGuysThatWeLoveToHate(tm) characters often are having a very, very hard time maintaining their role in the face of the harsh onslaught. Being evil IC is hard work, folks. Remember that.

Also, a word of caution. As soon as you take your IC ire into OOC, and OOCly begin to harass the bad guy's player... it becomes a TOS violation. That means CE has to get involved and deal with the offender in a real world manner. So, not only is OOCly flaming a bad guy's player rude, inconsiderate and just plain wrong; it is also strickly against the rules.

Play nice guys. We are all here to have a good time and help make Marrach a success.

Thanks,
Jennifer

[Faruq]

Aquila's a villain? I'm in serious trouble.... http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Kyle]

And there are all sorts of people in between too! I use the D&D alignment scale
your respect for law: chaotic, nutral, lawful
for your fellow man: good, nutral, evil
I decicided on chaotic good. that way I can be a healer of the kindest intent twards people but still harbor destructive intents. and the statement I made last night:
'the watch causes more problems than is prevents' is a perfectly legidimant point of veiw. a lawful evil might never cross the watch but as chaotic I say 'right is right, I dont care what the watch says'
so dont think that the list stops at the gray area.
(teasigly) what were you thinking forgeting sinistrele? he should be the menace of the castle.

[Morte]

Thank you Faer, Skitten, for your kind words.

Yes, we few, we diaboliocal few villains who work so hard to add spice, and subterfuge to this game are rarely recognized for what we bring.


We bring tension, and pressure.. we bring a source of plot that is not, for the most part, dependant upon the CE or SH. Just to state this : I have not received ANY help from the CE/SH. Everything Morte and his band have done, has been purely player driven.

I have received flack for my role. I have been told some pretty awful things. However, I have good friends who support me in my role, and help me to see than those things come from one or two isolated sources, and that what We, as Villians, bring to the game, is needed.

Well, enough rambling, I have minions to go beat.

Morte.
"Hey! Twulf? Wheres the dancing girls I ordered?"

[Sin]

Hehe, the only CE support I have ever received is the fact that they have left me alone to my own devices without telling me I can't do things... http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif

[Kyle]

No, im not ic destructive, im ooc manical!
I am buisy writeing the story 'how to destroy the universe in 5 steps or less' for the school anime club. so with chaos I can be ic as manical as I want.
*kyle grins evilly*
I dont want to hurt anyone after all. as far as my char goes, he just thinks that morality comes before law, and with some of the things happening lately I have some good examples to use.
And Morte! *big hug* I knew you werent an ooc evil (even if you may have a danceing girl streak)
so thats enough out of me...
some other people post what there alignments are ok?
*Kyle says 'DEATH TO THE INFADEL!' frowns 'oh, wait. that would be me.' and flees the the room*

[Retribution]

Well umm, What can I say... I feel special http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

Playing a villian in a game can be disconcerning. For instance, have you ever tried to play a villian in Balder's Gate.... it doesn't work to well, or in AC, EQ or UO, again, you will get yourself killed all to quickly. Being a Villian, is difficult. I am sure many of us have seen the attempt at it, but after lots of shouting, cursing, and throwing wild punches (while not responding to getting hit themselves), it tends to get annoying.

Sure Villians can be fun, but let us not take the fun away from the normal people. We have several villians aready in this castle, and well, we need more nice people to support us villians http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

I think I'm going on a tanget at this point, so I best stop. Thanks again http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

Retribution

[Gryffin]

As a big fan fan of the ever popular 'me too' post, I'd like to say I love what you villians do for the game. Heck you give people like Rand a good name http://www.skotos.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif Keep up the good work and don't let ooc flack get you down

Rand

[Kristine]

Oooh. Villains are that make the game interesting. Keep it up you guys! http://www.skotos.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

*shudders in fear* "No--Twulf...go away...I don't want to be a dancing girl!"

~Kristine

[Santlar D]

Kemuel is a villain? Have I been gone THAT long? I thought he was the resident religious fanatic. I guess he has been turned to the dark side.

[Twulf]

Dancing Girls Ser Morte?...We do not need girls...we need saucy, sensual, seductive, women!! (ducking and runing for cover OOC'ly)
I'll have them rounded up immediately!! I'm sure I can find a few vict...umm...I mean, volunteers who would love to become part of Morte's Mansion. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif

Smirking all the way,
Twulf

[Kristine]

Kyle:How to destroy the universe in 5 steps or less? Ooh. TELL ME! http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif
It would be a delightful project for me to work on.

~Kristine

[Kyle]

Actualy, the story isnt about destroying the universe. I chose that tile because (and the title isnt firm yet, I could change my mind) its a romance comody about a dead man and how his whole universe is changed by being dead. There is a love triangle, a promise, and lots of torment on poor Bernards part. It is inspired mostly by the manga
Urusi Yatsura (hope I spelled that right) and Beetlejuice (yuck). From My own twisted imagination I present: How to destroy the universe in 5 steps or less! The 3 involved in the love triangle are Bernard, a slightly geeky young man (dead now), his girl freind Katie, the partialy normal one, and Elea (named after the first initiat because I couldnt think of a spookier name, thats all right with you, yes?) the necromancer/necrophiliac who falls in love with Bernard just cause he's dead.
Grin, Its gona be published though I cant imagine that it would be a very wide publishing. So if anyone wants to put a copy of it on a fan page, well I dont know how much the book will cost. my anime club at school is puting it out, oh and lobo... ever read steam detectives? Its cool... or hot, actualy I dont know... but its good! (and its not porno! I was a little leary of it too at first)

oh and my char is now officialy insane, probobly not permenent. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/biggrin.gif depends on how things go, if anyone wants me dead please dont wait till after the game goes paynplay

[skitten]

How to destroy the universe in 5 steps or less! The 3 involved in the love triangle are Bernard, a slightly geeky young man (dead now), his girl freind Katie, the partialy normal one, and Elea (named after the first initiat because I couldnt think of a spookier name, thats all right with you, yes?) the necromancer/necrophiliac who falls in love with Bernard just cause he's dead.


OK, now I'm seriously creeped out. I appreciate your... admiration(?)... of my character but, a necrophiliac necromancer? Like *ew*. You can use the name as you wish but if you are attempting to base this character on the character of the First Initiate, I would really prefer that you didn't. Elea is just -not- that kind of gal and I would prefer that she not be associated with such. Otherwise... have fun(?) with your story.

Thanks,
Jennifer

[Morte]

Yes, Twulf.

Dancing girls.

This is why I am the boss, and you're the henchman. You see, I have Prince Bertram coming over for tea, and I want dancing GIRLS to emerge from of the sugar bowl, Girls I say, because we all know he can't handle a real women.

Any MORE questions, Twulf?

Good. Oh, two more things.

First, Bring me some more of those little animal cookies with that pink icing I love so much...

And second, I need you to find out why Elea is spending so much time with Dr. Getheaht.. I swear.. she goes down there when the sun sets, and is not seen again until morning, and it's the ONLY time she smile...

Oh dear lord.

Twulf, never mind.

And they think I am twisted...

Morte.

[Sin]

Thank you Faer! http://www.skotos.net/ubb/biggrin.gif

Actually, yes it can be hard being evil. It goes against my RL nature alot. But, you know, it's sometimes fun to be completely the opposite of who you are...

And Kyle... Healer who harbors destructive intent? Get those bandages away from me! Seriously, I don't come out of my room often enough to be THE menace of the castle (too busy staring deep into my stone, feeling the power wash through me, hearing the ancient calls within my mind, drifting, drifting, losing all sense of who I am...) Um, where was I? http://www.skotos.net/ubb/confused.gif

[Twulf]

Evil is good...haven't people figured that out by now? http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif You have to have some evil in the castle, or it would be rather boring place.

Another nickel's worth...
Twulf (aka Morte's vile henchman)

[Twulf]

Originally posted by Morte:
Dancing girls.

This is why I am the boss, and you're the henchman. You see, I have Prince Bertram coming over for tea, and I want dancing GIRLS to emerge from of the sugar bowl, Girls I say, because we all know he can't handle a real women.

Any MORE questions, Twulf?

Good. Oh, two more things.

First, Bring me some more of those little animal cookies with that pink icing I love so much...

And second, I need you to find out why Elea is spending so much time with Dr. Getheaht.. I swear.. she goes down there when the sun sets, and is not seen again until morning, and it's the ONLY time she smile...

Oh dear lord.

Twulf, never mind.

And they think I am twisted...

Morte.[/B]

---
(written in rather hurried text)

Yes Ser! Girls it shall be. How silly of me, tis only you that could handle real women. I do believe that the cooks are working on your tasty treats as I write this. They say that they've never heard of such a food, however, I've tried to explain to them what it looks like and some of the ingrediants that go into such a delicious snack. I shall see what I can find about Sera Elea...she can't hide forever. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif

Morte's lackey...
Twulf

[skitten]

I shall see what I can find about Sera Elea...she can't hide forever.


Just you try it, bucko. *evil grin* Ever wondered what it would be like to be about 3 inches tall and green? Watch your step or you could find out in a rather painful manner. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif http://www.skotos.net/ubb/tongue.gif

(tongue firmly in cheek)
Elea

[Twulf]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by skitten:
Just you try it, bucko. *evil grin* Ever wondered what it would be like to be about 3 inches tall and green? Watch your step or you could find out in a rather painful manner. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif http://www.skotos.net/ubb/tongue.gif

(tongue firmly in cheek)
Elea

---

I would hope that you would not harm someone who has done nothing wrong to you Sera. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif I'm sure we can discuss this in a more private matter if you would like. I'm sure that there can be much to discuss. I merely seek what Ser Morte has asked of me, and nothing more. I am under the impression that you do not care for Ser Morte? Is this true?

Twulf

[skitten]

I am under the impression that you do not care for Ser Morte? Is this true?


That would be telling, ser Twulf. But, perhaps you might want to attend the next Poet's Gathering, that I also attend, so you may hear the poem I have written on the matter. *weg*

All the best,
Elea

[ooc: This weekend is DundraCon weekend, so I won't be online that weekend and will miss the next Poet's Gathering on Sunday the 18th. Sorry. Maybe I'll have an informal gathering some time during this week or next week to reveal my newest little masterpiece.]

[Twulf]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by skitten:
That would be telling, ser Twulf. But, perhaps you might want to attend the next Poet's Gathering, that I also attend, so you may hear the poem I have written on the matter. *weg*

All the best,
Elea

---
You write poetry?? How wonderful! I'd love to hear it, in fact, I've fancied myself as one who dabbles in it. Nothing overly dramatic or anything mind you, but tasteful none the less. Perhaps you could give me some pointers and show me what works best for you? I can't wait to hear this. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

Poet in training...
Twulf


[ooc: This weekend is DundraCon weekend, so I won't be online that weekend and will miss the next Poet's Gathering on Sunday the 18th. Sorry. Maybe I'll have an informal gathering some time during this week or next week to reveal my newest little masterpiece.]
(ooc: I suggest that you see if you can find Sera Jasmine at Dundracon and tell her that I said "Hello". She does know who Twulf is. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif )

[Boilermg]

So...Twulf is a villian now?

Marg would like a word with him then...

Meg

[Atama]

Say hi to Jasmine for me too! http://www.skotos.net/ubb/biggrin.gif I'm sure she'll have lots of stories and pictures for us Seattle folks when she gets back...

Hehe, Margaret's gotta be careful who her friends are (in fact, that should be the Castle Marrach motto... sigh...).

[KathyN]

Originally posted by Boilermg:
So...Twulf is a villian now?

Marg would like a word with him then...

Meg

Sigh, I tried to warn you! But he's a very good villian! Heheh! Make him see the error of his ways! http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif
Kathy

[Darren Brimhall]

I have a question, for every villian there has to be a hero to defeat (or thrawt) them. Of course, there is no rule that says that once a villian is defeated that the end of him/her--where's the fun in that?
But what if the hero was more of a person, thought earnest, constantly fell over himself driving those who he's trying to help nuts with frustration...Or somebody who's just this side of the line from becomming a villian him(her)self?
It's something to throw around..

Darren brimhall

[Kyle]

Twulf may be a vilian but he is a nice fun loveing disney vilian and frankly even if it detracts from his beliveability it makes him much more likable than morte. its been realy hard trying to like morte, almost as hard as likeing blackhawk.
by the way, because some of this stuff is ic I will just say that this is ooc

[Monkey]

Darren Brimhall writes:

. . . for every villian there has to be a hero to defeat (or thrawt) them. . . .

I disagree. Sometimes the villains need to win too. I think the duel between Starke and Punzel was much more interesting with Punzel losing. If she had won, everyone would have just forgotten the duel--good triumphed over evil, my world-view has not been upset by this. Instead, Starke (maybe not a villain, but definitely an antagonist) won. This shook a lot of world-views, being topped by Andrew's immortal words, 'Honor sucks'. The event remained memorable, and became something that spawned new and different character reactions, as world-views were adjusted for.

I'm not saying villains should always win, no more than heroes should always win. But when heroes win, the story tends to end. When villains win, it tends to be the beginning of a new chapter.

[SamW]

Originally posted by Monkey:
I'm not saying villains should always win, no more than heroes should always win. But when heroes win, the story tends to end. When villains win, it tends to be the beginning of a new chapter.[/B]

One thing that I'd like to see is less concentration on 'hero versus villain' and more concentration on conflicts that arise naturally from the opposing goals of different factions or individuals. That way there's no side that is clearly in the right, but two sides that may each have valid precepts that have nevertheless led them into dire confrontation with one another.

When someone is clearly the bad guy, bystanders are less involved in the whole situation - they'll cheer for who they thing they're supposed to support, and jeer at the obvious villain. But in 'neutrals opposed' situations, the allegiances of bystanders become more important in swinging the eventual outcome of the conflict, and in creating conversation about the conflict itself.

Anyway, just some thoughts,

Sam

[Faruq]

Originally posted by Kyle:
some other people post what there alignments are ok?

I don't find D&D's alignment system to be sufficiently expressive to properly capture any character I've played in any game over the past decade or so. They'd all basically wind up as pure neutral as a result, (although they'd be dinged with alignment violation penalties every second session or so).

So I can't help you. Maybe the following description will help you pigeonhole him for yourself:

Faruq is a man of order and rules -- except when the established order runs contrary to justice; when rules interfere with what is right. He's calm and thoughtful -- except when his passions run wild. He's compassionate -- except when faced with perfidy, at which point he will be ruthless. He's self-efacing -- except when he's not (I haven't found the pattern for this yet, but I know it's there). He's polite -- except when in the throes of his passions or, only sometimes, when faced with people he doesn't like (again, I haven't spotted the pattern yet).

I could go on for hours like that, but I think you're seeing the difficulty by now.

[Faer]

Well it seems my post has sorta run off track here...

And remember, I only mentioned a few names because I thought it would be best to leave some things unsaid, and to let players learn on their own accord who is actually a villian and who is not.

Once again... let me remind you, villians come in all different shapes and sizes. Meaning that just because you may not see them doing BAD things does not mean they are not villians. Villain is defined as:

1 : an uncouth person : BOOR
2 : VILLEIN
3 : a deliberate scoundrel or criminal
4 : a scoundrel in a story or play
5 : a person or thing blamed for a particular evil or difficulty

so... remember... a villain could be where you least expect it.

[KathyN]

Just a couple quick responses and thoughts. 1
I love that there are villians like Morte, Sinistrelle amd Starke as well as Twulf, who is much more evil than he appears! 2 I hope that OOC IC messages can stop being mixed up. 3 How I view my own situation: IC Judith hates Twulf for dumping her, OOC It had to happen because frankly they were going nowwhere plot wise as a 'happy couple'. IC Morte is a clear and present threat in the eyes of my charactor(s), OOC he's a good player and I wish I could interact more with him. (As well as some of the rest of you)
Something that occurred to me.. we have probably wanted to label the CE run charactors as 'good' or 'evil' depending on our affiliations. Or am I wrong in that perception? And I agree with the point made earlier, charactors can be more grey in that they react in certain ways to certain people or situations that might not be in keeping with the overall 'good' or 'evil' bent.
Thanks for everyones input,
Kathy

[Avenger]

Actually, I like it better when you don't know who is 'evil' or 'good'. Just go by perception, and don't be surprised if some of the people you consider to be your friends are actually scheming around.

As for OOC, IC, I never had a problem with
Gondorian characters in Elenor.net
and their players hating my Surion or
Xirith - or me, even. I do play their enemy,
after all.

Heck, one of them kept persistantly creating
alts to kill Surion. Its was rather amusing.

[Avenger]

I’ve found villains to be much more effective when are less of a direct contradiction of good, but rather of a grotesque perversion of some accepted or admired virtue. Blind fanatism is a favorite target of mines, as it can modivate the villians to great acts as well as moving him to do the same callous actions which is why he seems like the enemy. Towering arrogance, complete disillusionment, or the need to spite another also can be used quite effectively to justify why a villain ultimately choses his path.

What I personally do not like, and I see being done by often in RPGs of 'Chaotic Evil' characters is that they place some dark past for their character and automatically assume that it gives an explaination for why their character acts the way he does. It doesn't - at best it trolls for pity for their character. A villain should be hated and hopefully feared, but pity is not one of the feeling you wish others to have for your villain.
Circumastances might contribuate, but the ultimate decision for the villain to have chosen evil should be because of some fundamental flaw or a misapplication of a virtue of his intrinsic character.
Xirith may have been an illegitimate child who was never given his fair chance in life, but that would not be why he choses to serve the Dark Lord. It was because his utter disillusionment with the moral system caused him to reject the entire moral system as a hypocritical set of standerds placed by those in power to keep those below them in their place. Having rejected all the mores of society as a lie, he could justify perfectly to himself why power was the only thing worth pursuing, whatever its source.

Circumastances can be used to develop why a character came into possession of his fatal flaw, but it alone should not be used to justify a character.

[Kyle]

you know, Im not trieing to blow up the world because im mean. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/biggrin.gif
and I have morals. Its just that the people in ager2 Killed 3 of my freinds so I so the world deserves to be blown up.
magewar.com trust me, youl love it.
ok, seriously. What makes you think that the vilian isnt right and its you who is wrong? I mean, most people accept killing is wrong but when is killing not wrong? Might your opinions differ from someone elses? Sure. So someone who did something that benifits the comunity (like killing blackhawk) might get a bad rep for it.

[Linnet]

*grins*

Jeez, Kyle... You're behind the times. Blackhawk didn't die, so he couldn't have been murdered. He was imprisoned for the rest of his life (the SH gods and Armsman Philo have spoken *grin*).

[Kyle]

ok, your right. I just used the D&D system as a base.
My char is Passionet about everything, seldom calm when something upsets him. He is deeply religious and uses the words God and Life as one and the same. Kyle is deeply troubled by pain and is very frustrated by his inability to stop it, he is in constant study to be a healer. He cares about the people around him, he wants the best for everyone and tries to include people in plots. He doesnt get insulted easily and (like me) tries to be everyones freind. He has definate veiws of right and wrong, some of which I made just to make him interesting, and thinks that nothing should stand in the way of whats right. Because he hasnt seen the watch or any established order justifing its existence in his eyes he is very confused. The queen, an obvious source of benevolince and goodness he quite certainly doesnt understand because of this. and because the hero isnt always winning he isnt seeing people like Philo who want to do the right thing as anything heroic at all, 'Why dont you go stick a sword in his belly?'. Kyle cares nothing for the finer points of law.
remember the key words: frustrated, confused. Kyle is temporarily insane.
Oh yes, an extreamly paranoid.

[Aquilaplayer]

Is this the longest single forum ever? I'd like to know.

[Atama]

No, there was a thread on "Characters" that spanned well over a hundred posts...

[Faruq]

Originally posted by Aquilaplayer:
Is this the longest single forum ever? I'd like to know.

No. The "newbie perspective/rant" thread was 61 messages before it died off.

[Angron]

>>or even a talking potato?

I volunteer to be a talking potato http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Kristine]

Kyle, you play Archmage?
Cool.

I'm in Blitz 1 and 2.

~Kristine

[Kyle]

Your brave, I only visit once every couple of days, so as not to waste turns picked a slower server. And uh... the walking potato thing? Did I post that before or after the potato incident recently? I put that in because I remembered a while ago people talking about a special potato that talked (I didnt know that it walked) and there is also a drunk cat, walks into the bar and starts drinking. Had fun pestering that cat... hehehe

[Kyle]

Its because human nature is so interestin. After all if it wasnt, wouldnt you rather be a snake or penguin? or even a talking potato?

[Twulf]

Ok, I have a question and anyone can feel free to answer...

Why don't the "evil" characters ever win? What is it that makes them not succeed?
Or with Faer's disappearance, is that all going to change? http://www.skotos.net/ubb/wink.gif

My nickel's worth,
Twulf

[Duraze]

Actually, I want to rebut that statement. Right now, it seems as if the villains are actually winning more than the heros. For weeks I've been saying "When are the heros going to win?". So, maybe it's just a matter of what side of the fence you're on.

Brandon

[skitten]

To answer Twulf's question on why do bad guys always lose? There are several reasons for this.

First, in a story, most people have the bad guy lose because that's the way it is 'supposed to be.'

Second, most bad guys have some inherent flaws - like gloating to your enemy and leaving them alive or an obsession that can be used against them.

Third, even though not all bad guys believe themselves to be bad/evil/wrong. But, they are. Thus, 'reality' will always end up working against them. (Admittedly, this is the weakest reason.)

However, there are times when the bad guy will allow himself to lose something small in order gain something larger. Usually the good guys are so busy celebrating their small victory that they miss the larger defeat. http://www.skotos.net/ubb/smile.gif

-----

In answer to Duraze's comment about feeling that the good guys are constantly losing in Marrach right now... I really think that it is all a matter of perspective. I am seeing small victories here and there. However, I would guess, if I were in your shoes, I would not see these victories - especially in lue of just having had an encounter with one of CE's Bad Guys (you lucky dog you).

I think that sometimes you have to stop and look at things from a different perspective to realize that the good guys aren't constantly loosing.

Also, you have to think of your definition of good guy vs. bad guy. Who do you consider to be the bad guy(s)? Most likely, there are others who would attempt to refute your opinion, pointing out how they are a good guy.

So, try stepping back to look at it all as whole. I think you'll see that not all is as grim as you seem to think it is.

[Avenger]

Simply as a literity technique, one often allows the antagonists to be victorious multiple times so that there is more tension when a major encounter does occurs. Its is to prevent the cartoonish effect of antagonists making a new plot for every episode which is then tharwted - significantly diminishing the threat and fear effect that the antagonists should cause.

[Faer]

Well put Avenger!

As for Faer's diappearance... *VEG*... it will be interesting to see that finally unfold!