Pointing out Spelling Mistakes in the Forums

[Vestio]

Alright, I don't think I complain very much. Hell, I don't even post very often. But this has been getting on my nerves.

Situation: Someone posts something in one of the forums that has a spelling mistake, and some (generally anonymous) poster points out that mistake.

Honestly, was that really needed? There's only two reasons why you would bring attention to it publicly. The first is genuine confusion. If you didn't understand the original post, then find a more discreet way to ask the poster, and allow them the dignity to realize their mistake and change it on their own. The second reason for bringing public attention to it is plain and simple hostility.

I would like those of you that make these comments to take a moment and ask yourself which one of the above categories you fall into. Ask yourself if you ever considered that someone might be sensitive about their spelling errors. Perhaps English isn't their first language, even. Ask yourself whether a biting IC remark or a brief chuckle really adds enough to our game to warrant hurting someone's feelings. Ask yourself who the hell made you perfect enough to comment on someone else in a manner completely devoid of in game merit or necessity.

It's childish, unnecessary, and hurtful, and those of you that are acting this way need to grow up.

Nick

[Namida]

So agree with the above!
*cheers Vestio*

[Tamm]

Granted, I can't spell worth spit.
But it's not fair to have some 'perfectionest' be critical of whatever you post on the IC Board InCharacter no less.

Characters are suppost to have flaws, spellings' is Tamm's

Leave the character be, or have a Staffer ask you why you feel it's nessicarry to be so critical of other's handwriting.

Tamm

[Nizhoni]

Thank you for posting this. I totally agree. Spelling is not a sign of intelligence. I would hope that most are able to discern the correct word through context. In the great context of everything spelling errors are way down there.

Kathy

[Aleena]

Absolutely agree!

[Dusk]

I have never, with any of my characters, pointed out a spelling mistake until the 'gaul' vs 'gall' issue. As far as the 'gaul' vs. 'gall' thing, those are completely different words from someone who was supposed to be a poetic genius well versed and praised in writing making a critique about another character.

As far as things like the 'anal' vs. 'annual' thing on the 'Annal Ghost Ball' post was completely uncalled for. Everyone knew what she meant, it was a simple typing error.

[John]

Originally posted by Vestio
Alright, I don't think I complain very much. Hell, I don't even post very often. But this has been getting on my nerves.

Situation: Someone posts something in one of the forums that has a spelling mistake, and some (generally anonymous) poster points out that mistake.

Honestly, was that really needed? There's only two reasons why you would bring attention to it publicly. The first is genuine confusion. If you didn't understand the original post, then find a more discreet way to ask the poster, and allow them the dignity to realize their mistake and change it on their own. The second reason for bringing public attention to it is plain and simple hostility.

I would like those of you that make these comments to take a moment and ask yourself which one of the above categories you fall into. Ask yourself if you ever considered that someone might be sensitive about their spelling errors. Perhaps English isn't their first language, even. Ask yourself whether a biting IC remark or a brief chuckle really adds enough to our game to warrant hurting someone's feelings. Ask yourself who the hell made you perfect enough to comment on someone else in a manner completely devoid of in game merit or necessity.

It's childish, unnecessary, and hurtful, and those of you that are acting this way need to grow up.

Nick
Actally, there are a number of valid IG reasons, tho you shouldnt do it anon if your doing it for a good reason.
1) If you want to clarify for others about the meaning of the word/subject and the mistake is more complicated that just a typo.
2) You play a charicter who is at odds with the poster. Tho it may be annoying ooc, IG its expected and allowed if its done fully IC.
3) You play a jerk IG. While not everyone likes them, we have them, and the staff has protected there right to be jerks IG. As long as its all IG its all good.

My point? Its IG vs ooc again. If its an ooc matter, then by all means handle it ooc. If its an IG matter, then handle it IG. I mean, your a knight IG, if you dont like this kinda thing, speak out on it IG, hammer down some people, get some forum posts IDed by magic, ect.

[Dusk]

You can check Dusk's previous postings to find out who she actually is. She is an alt of mine and knows plenty enough of Zhane to make the comments that she made, all of which are IC. She has a character, a name, a story, and everything to do with it. The forum name is associated with my main account and all my other forum names as well.

This is not an anon account and does have IC knowledge, I specifically worded my posts in such a way as to reflect the knowledge of the particular character that is posting. And yes, she is a bitch. :)

[Vestio]

Originally posted by John
Actally, there are a number of valid IG reasons, tho you shouldnt do it anon if your doing it for a good reason.
1) If you want to clarify for others about the meaning of the word/subject and the mistake is more complicated that just a typo.
2) You play a charicter who is at odds with the poster. Tho it may be annoying ooc, IG its expected and allowed if its done fully IC.
3) You play a jerk IG. While not everyone likes them, we have them, and the staff has protected there right to be jerks IG. As long as its all IG its all good.

My point? Its IG vs ooc again. If its an ooc matter, then by all means handle it ooc. If its an IG matter, then handle it IG. I mean, your a knight IG, if you dont like this kinda thing, speak out on it IG, hammer down some people, get some forum posts IDed by magic, ect.

Of the three reasons that you stated, the first one would qualify as being confused and looking for clarification. The second two would qualify as a player or character that is simply antagonistic for the sole purpose of being mean. There's no need to phrase your comments as a contrary argument to what I posted, and your expanded scenarios are certainly well received and not debated.

It's true that players have every right to conduct their character in any way they deem fitting -within the confines of the terms of service-. This is the legally accepted standard for behavior. I believe, however, that we have an additional responsibility to one another as fellow members of this community to not only ask "Would my character do or say something", but "Should I, as a player, have my character do or say something."

I'm not advocating everyone frolicking in some sugar-induced fantastic utopia. But I think that each of us needs to remember that there is another person behind the character you're speaking to or posting about. Take some responsibility for your actions, and don't simply hide behind "well, that's how my character would act".

Nick

[psinix]

From one who makes immense amount of spelling errors, I totally agree. I have a hard time with writing and normally take at least twenty minutes writing one post because of certain circumstances. I try hard to correct and improve my writing, and encourage people page me if I spelt something incorrectly IG or post. If someone tells me, "Hey, this is how you spell this or write that", I am more than willing to change what mistakes I have made. Open hostility or attacks are simply childish and overly cruel, especially if one cannot help it but put forth effort. Think of it this way, would you –not- find it immoral to ridicule someone who has down syndrome, while more extreme than a language barrier or learning disability the idea is the same, it is hurtful and unnecessary.


Consider a few things before you decide to hit that enter key to make a comment:

1. English may not be the his/her’s first Language.

2. He/She may have a learning disability (This doe not mean they are -not- intelligent, it means their mind or thought patters work in a slightly different way. In fact, throughout history there have been many persons to be regard as geniuses or intelligent, but had some form of mental instability or even learning disabilities.)

3. Think how it may affect you if someone battered you verbally for something that you may not be able to help and is not perfect.


If you feel the error(s) are tremendous or otherwise takes away from the meaning of the post, you should try:

1. Paging the person

2. PMs

3. Bring the poster attention to the errors in a polite and/or evasive manner that may direct them to the error, without openly pointing out the details.

We all have faults and make errors. It would not hurt to -try- to offer understanding that all people are not the same and are not perfect.

Maya

[Uwaine]

Originally posted by Tamm
Granted, I can't spell worth spit.
But it's not fair to have some 'perfectionest' be critical of whatever you post on the IC Board InCharacter no less.

Characters are suppost to have flaws, spellings' is Tamm's

Leave the character be, or have a Staffer ask you why you feel it's nessicarry to be so critical of other's handwriting.

Tamm
But if it is a character's flaw, then isn't that something that can and should be reacted to IC?

How do you differentiate, anyway?

Uwaine would never employ, for whatever imaginary job, a person who couldn't write well (both in content, grammar, and spelling). Is that unfair to certain players? (For that matter, he's given people hell for not speaking "properly" - having accents or speech defects. Is that okay? I know one, at least, was intentional on the part of the player, but how can we tell for sure?)

I'll admit that I even have an OOC bias in this respect. It takes a more for a character to make an impression on me, the player (which would result in me wanting to RP with them more, for example), if the player behind them can't spell at least reasonably well. Is that elitist? Maybe, but what can I do about that? I would have a harder time taking someone I don't know seriously in person if they kept stuttering or pausing to look for words all the time.

Originally posted by John
3) You play a jerk IG. While not everyone likes them, we have them, and the staff has protected there right to be jerks IG. As long as its all IG its all good.
Lucky me, eh?

- Devil's Advocate ?

[John]

Originally posted by Uwaine
But if it is a character's flaw, then isn't that something that can and should be reacted to IC?

How do you differentiate, anyway?

Uwaine would never employ, for whatever imaginary job, a person who couldn't write well (both in content, grammar, and spelling). Is that unfair to certain players? (For that matter, he's given people hell for not speaking "properly" - having accents or speech defects. Is that okay? I know one, at least, was intentional on the part of the player, but how can we tell for sure?)

I'll admit that I even have an OOC bias in this respect. It takes a more for a character to make an impression on me, the player (which would result in me wanting to RP with them more, for example), if the player behind them can't spell at least reasonably well. Is that elitist? Maybe, but what can I do about that? I would have a harder time taking someone I don't know seriously in person if they kept stuttering or pausing to look for words all the time.


Lucky me, eh?

- Devil's Advocate ?
In this game, my PC has been overlooked for a job becouse of my ooc typeing and spelling skills. I actally have the e-mail that says it from a plotter who was playing the SPPC (staff PC) in question.

[Namida]

Obviously in high writing profile jobs spelling is important.
Chroniclers, Scribes, Pages and the like.
But hardly in more simple and private (writing wise) jobs as Yeoman, Duelist, Rememberer, Seeker/Acolyte, Royal Player (the performer part such as musician or dancer) etc.

I know I have especially gramatical errors and I would hate for a job to be turned down on me because my grammar isn't perfect.

I guess it'll all come down to evaluating each case on it's own, determining if it's a delibirate ooc-decission to be bad speller or outside forces such as different nationality or a spelling-disorder (whatever that is called, it's word-blindness in Danish).

Sound judgement perhaps?

[Finna]

Well I do want to thank Vestio's player for bringing that up. Generally I try to use the Word pad before posting, but sometimes I get in a hurry and well I make mistakes like the next person. We all do. It will happen on a Text based game. But I do become hurt oocly sometimes by comments and such.....I am not the best speller in the world....I am the first to admit that. English, writing and spelling were not my best subjects. But to get mean about it......well just stop and consider your ownself first before you poke at someone else. That is all I will say.

[John]

Originally posted by Namida
Obviously in high writing profile jobs spelling is important.
Chroniclers, Scribes, Pages and the like.
But hardly in more simple and private (writing wise) jobs as Yeoman, Duelist, Rememberer, Seeker/Acolyte, Royal Player (the performer part such as musician or dancer) etc.

I know I have especially gramatical errors and I would hate for a job to be turned down on me because my grammar isn't perfect.

I guess it'll all come down to evaluating each case on it's own, determining if it's a delibirate ooc-decission to be bad speller or outside forces such as different nationality or a spelling-disorder (whatever that is called, it's word-blindness in Danish).

Sound judgement perhaps?
add Inquisition to that list.

[Uwaine]

My issue remains.

If Sera X and Sera Y wanted to be Uwaine's slave (and he only gets one, for the sake of argument), all other things being equal and nondescript, I'd almost certainly pick the one with better English - because as a player, I find that easier and more pleasing to look at. Is that bad? Is that good? Is that a necessary evil?

If I'm too socially inept to pull off playing a master of intrigue, I won't be able to, and people won't (IC or OOC) pretend I am. If I can't write a word correctly, are people IC obliged to act like I can?

[Vestio]

Originally posted by Uwaine

If I'm too socially inept to pull off playing a master of intrigue, I won't be able to, and people won't (IC or OOC) pretend I am. If I can't write a word correctly, are people IC obliged to act like I can?

No, but were you socially inept and a failure as a master of intrigue, should I simply remain quiet and allow that to speak for itself, or do I need to make it a point to emphasize your inadequacies?

Nick

[Uwaine]

In-Character? That depends on your character. Uwaine surely would - he jumps at any chance to put people down. If someone gets OOC'ly offended by that sort of thing, they need a clearer separation between their self and their character.

Out-Of-Character? Not if it's not called for, and preferrably in moderate tones or in a helpful context.

Dusk's correction, however, was made IC.

[A Pretender]

Originally posted by Dusk
As far as things like the 'anal' vs. 'annual' thing on the 'Annal Ghost Ball' post was completely uncalled for. Everyone knew what she meant, it was a simple typing error.

That was an IC character being completely IC childish ;)

[Aleena]

The feeling I get from some of these happenings is that sometimes people dislike others oocly and take every opportunity to humiliate them. If they have an IC chance to do so, all the better since they can hide behind their character. This is very tricky since those of us who might see it for what it really is are hard pressed to prove it. Obviously, we aren't fooled though. If you do indeed play an arse of a character(which the castle does need), you should at least consider that this may not be the best way to effectively get that point across. I mean what's next? Icly bashing people for poor parser use? Maybe we can start penalizing for slow responses for those who maybe don't type as fast as us superior typist? I don't think this is rocket science here. Merely using common sense we can all probably figure out if a person is intentionally playing a character with poor spelling skills.

On a more personal note, I sympathize with those on the recieving end as I am also not the best at grammar/spelling and would certainly not love being bashed on the boards. Having seen what people will do "icly" it makes me paranoid about posting sometimes. No one around here wants to look like an idiot. Why else would we have everyone coughing a correction everytime a word is typoed? We've successfully created an environment where everyone is paranoid about being seen as stupid for spelling wrong.

All that being said, I do understand that under certain circumstances, icly bashing is good for this game. Conflict to a certain extent is great but only when it is in the spirit of gaming and not as a tool for revenge or humiliation.

Heather

- I'm well aware that there are likely several grammar and spelling mistakes in the above. I decided to throw caution to the wind and post without my trusty spell check. ;)

--My sincerest apologies to any of you who have kept the spirit of gaming in mind and in no way meant any personal harm to another player. You know who you are and this post is certainly not aimed at you.

[psinix]

I never applied to the Chroniclers because I realize my deficiencies. I also have a tendency to hire or employ persons icly, I feel will enrich certain aspects of my person that may be flawed, such as writing. We all have our strong and weak points; no person here is without imperfections or shortcomings. I do understand that conflict in the game keeps things from becoming dull and uneventful; however, using a character simply as a cover to release a need to be spiteful and vicious towards others also indicates that a person may have some issues in real life.

There is rping and there is purposely being malicious.

[Lyds]

Poor spelling is a pet peeve of mine, actually. In a text based game and an exclusively text forum, continual horrendous spelling becomes extremely distracting. I have been guilty of skimming posts (that are probably making worthy points) just because they are so poorly put together. While I can understand the essence of the argument, when two out of every three words are misspelled I start to doubt both the concentration of the author and the amount of care they've put into what they're writing.

If I am writing a long scroll IC, or a post for the forums, I always double check by either copy-pasting into a Word document or looking up a long word at dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com). It only takes a second.

No one is perfect, we all make mistakes. The occasional typo is completely understandable and easy to do. Poor grammar is annoying but can be difficult to get a good grasp on. Spelling, however, can be very easily and automatically corrected with minimum effort.

If you know spelling is not your strong point and refuse to make even the smallest of efforts to correct it... it seems a little lazy to me. I understand that for a short post/direct dialogue IG you don't want to be constantly referring to a dictionary/spell check, but for long posts and scrolls? Is it really that hard?


NB. Most of the players I've met who have English as a second language have better spelling and grammar than some of those who have it as their first.

(Oh, and on the more specific topics addressed in this thread? I agree with "Dusk" and Thomas.)

[Nizhoni]

Originally posted by Aleena
[No one around here wants to look like an idiot. Why else would we have everyone coughing a correction everytime a word is typoed? We've successfully created an environment where everyone is paranoid about being seen as stupid for spelling wrong.
[/B]

I agree with what Aleena is saying. And I do not know why it is so hard to just know what someone is saying. I am not doing this for work or school. It is a place to relax and have fun.

I no longer spar much because I am not really all that good with the parser. People have posted in a very clear way how much they dislike people who do not fully roleplay a spar. I do not want to bore anyone with my poor sparring roleplay.

I really don't like how people say how others suck at parser use. I don't think that using 15 commands to give a courier a letter is somehow great roleplaying. And I don't think that people who do not constantly use a thesarus are bad at roleplaying.

Let's lighten up and not call each other on such trivial things. And let's not hide behind - oh this is so IC and just shows how stupid the character is so don't rp with them and certainly don't hire them.

And while we are at it, let's make sure that as many people as possible have this error pointed out to them.

Kathy

Oh, and by the way, there are things that iritate me that others do or don't do. I just don't find it necessary to point it out to them. And from the handful who do publicly complain it seems there are far more who shrug things off. I know, that is i not gramatically correct.

[Rosalind]

One small thing I personally dislike, though I quite agree with Nizhoni, is using the IC Boards as 'forums'. Yes they are forums, but realistically if someone posts a notice, say for the Royal Court, would someone really scribble a note on the bottom asking a question? Not usually, they would write the person who posted it a scroll not post something else to be replied to there.

If there is indescrepancy of some sort (like a time, date, etc) it seems like something that should be taken IC, not inked on to the bottom of an existing official document.

If it's your character responding to something, that's fine. But do think about -how- your character would respond. If it's an anonymous scribble at the bottom of the scroll, okay. But if it's a signed question, why not take it to the couriers and RP it a bit more realistically?