Pickpocketing and protection

[Xewe]

Well, as pickpocketing seems to be a big issue, I and a few people checked some things out about pick pocketing (hehe some of the people helping didn't get asked, they just did)

First of all if you have a money pouch and you deposit your money into it, it is at risk for being pick pocketed by people with the pickpocket skill.

It has been found out that if you put your money in the pouch instead of depositing it that the money can not be taken, but I understand that this trait might not remain the same. So know that while for now it might help, I don't suggest keeping all your money like that because you might suddenly look in your pouch one day and see it's all been taken out.

Next, if you put your money pouch in anouther pouch this does not protect you IF the pickpocket in question knows that you have done this.

IE: I can still take your money by typing Pickpocket Bob's pouch's second pouch.

One way to protect yourself from this form of pick pocketing is to put more than one money pouch in your outer most pouch.

I as a pickpocket can type:

look at bob's pouch's second pouch
look at bob's pouch's third pouch
look at bob's pouch's xth pouch

and so on until I find out how many pouch's you have in your outer most pouch, but I have no idea how much money you have in any of those pouchs until I go ahead and try to pickpocket from one of them.

That means that if you have three pouches in your outer most money pouch that I have a 1 in 4 chance of hitting the correct pouch. (Perhaps you put the money in the outermost pouch and you are trying to trick me by putting the other pouches in your pouch).

And if I pick the wrong pouch I will have to wait for a period of time before I can try to pick pocket from you again.

Remember everyone, the best way to protect yourself from a pickpocket is to not carry money on you unless you actualy plan to use it. But if you plan to use it and you only carry one pouch with all your money in it, do understand that there is a very good chance someone not as nice as me will mark you.

[TonyD]

Thanks for this.

Yes, at some point you won't be protected by putting (not depositing) money in your pouch. You will (probably) always be protected by holding the money in your hands.

Also, you can't auto-spend the money without taking it out of your pouch first. If you deposit your money in your pouch, you'll automatically take the right money out when selling.

Bodyguards and scouts are also exceptionally good at spotting pickpockets. Get one. Use them. Everyone should have their personal scout keeping an eye on their purse.

As Xewe says, don't carry money unless you intend to spend it.
The command is:

set my pouch '2

That way you can only loose a few coins (but you have a bit to spend on drinks), or even set your pouch to 0. Then visit the bank before you want to make a purchase.

[Telvanni Guard]

>pickpocket X's pouch
>You try to pickpocket X. This requires his consent.
>X denies you to pickpocket him.

Would it be bad form to request that some actions not require consent? ;)

[Zhane]

One thing you may also do is put the money pouch in an object that closes. For instance, the Artisan Guild has backpacks that close, so we pout uor money pouches in there, and close them.

pickpocket Neo' bag' pouch

Neoascenn's Artisan Guild black leather bag is closed.

[Boh]

Originally posted by Telvanni Guard
>pickpocket X's pouch
>You try to pickpocket X. This requires his consent.
>X denies you to pickpocket him.

Would it be bad form to request that some actions not require consent? ;)

This isn't as much consent as denying you for trying to pickpocket someone from across the room. Use some common sense and get near them first.

Won't work on the truely paranoid, but neither would pickpocketing those sort in rl.

I find this a very good change.

[Peraine]

Some tips for the criminally minded:

Criminals don't usually stick around - Some people actually look at other people. So when you stand around with nothing in your hands, then walk up to someone and pickpocket them, even if they didn't feel your fingers, they may actually end up noticing that you have coins in your hands, and their purse feels a bit lighter.

Get rid of the evidence - Goes with the above: Do the crime, excuse yourself and leave the area to someplace you can be alone, and for heaven's sakes, put the coin in your moneypouch or a satchel or something where people won't notice it sitting in your hand when you return.

Groups - The best pickpockets work in crowded areas where there are lots of other people around. It's easier to throw the blame off that way when people realize they've been picked. If you're the only person standing around a character, don't be surprised if you end up getting accused when they find out their money's gone.

Decoy actions - If you use a ruse like brushing against someone, or getting near them, don't do it -just- when you pick pockets. It makes your targets very suspicious. If you brush against people a lot, then do it even when you're not picking pockets. In fact, do it without picking pockets more often than not! Lull your victims into a false sense of security before fleecing them.

Getting caught - If you do get caught, realize that not everyone's going to turn you into a guard right away. People are motivated by many things: greed and trying to avoid a hassle. If you get caught outright (your target notices), and they demand their coin back, running away will not leave them sympathetic and willing to overlook your actions. And it may lead you to bruises and/or getting arrested. Sometimes people can be bribed. Appeal to their sense of conscience, after all, as a criminal, your conscience isn't that demanding. Give their coin back, and maybe slip an extra couple denarii in with it. Make up a sob-story. Do anything to make them think you're anything but the cunning and opportunistic predator you are.

Hope this helps!

[Exit]

Catching people by looking at them and them having coins in there hand is an OOC way of catching them (I'll freely admit I use it though) The only reason it works is because everyone knows that they see something when someone withdraws from thier pouch. Once that is made silent, someone could have taken the money from thier own pouch and no one would know.

[Atama]

Originally posted by Telvanni Guard
>pickpocket X's pouch
>You try to pickpocket X. This requires his consent.
>X denies you to pickpocket him.

Would it be bad form to request that some actions not require consent? ;)
If you look at how picking pockets works in real life, you don't just reach into their pocket and pull out their wallet. A pickpocket is a con artist of sorts. You have to do something like pretend to bump into them, or distract them some other way; a lady might flirt with a man, etc.

In real life, if a person was truly paranoid and never let anyone near them, they're probably not going to have their pocket picked. So a person denying consent to someone who is a stranger isn't that odd at all.

Just like real life, there are two stages to picking a pocket in Ironclaw. First, you have to find a way to get close to someone. Pretend to have a secret, flirt, act panicked and try to cling to their shirt, come up with something. You might have to learn to look for "easy marks", people who seem new to the game (hence new to the city), people who are distracted or gullible, etc. Again, just like real life.

The second stage, of course, is the actual picking of the pocket (or moneypouch in this case). That is where your character's skill comes into play, compared with the skill of the victim or anyone else in the room viewing you.

Personally, I think that this is a new use for the consent system that works very well, and helps aid the roleplaying of a pickpocket. It means that you really have to roleplay and use some player skill to pull off your thieving.

[Peraine]

Originally posted by Exit
Catching people by looking at them and them having coins in there hand is an OOC way of catching them (I'll freely admit I use it though) The only reason it works is because everyone knows that they see something when someone withdraws from thier pouch. Once that is made silent, someone could have taken the money from thier own pouch and no one would know.

I do not think so. Most people who reach into their purse deliberately to get money, you would be able to see it. Just like if you succeed a spot check or whatever it works when they pickpocket you, you notice their hand in -your- purse. So either they performed a sleight-of-hand trick with their own purse, or they did it with someone else's purse.

Squelching the output makes no sense to realism when there are people who -can- catch them in the act. And that isn't to say if they're caught by looking/observation before/after the act, they can't talk their way out of having actually committed the act... that is, if they weren't seen doing it.

It's essentially: guy comes toward you with no wallet in his hand that you noticed, bumps into you, and passes by, tucking something into his pocket that looks like the leather of your wallet. You pat down your pocket and realize your wallet is missing. It may not have been him who pickpocketed you, but he seems a very likely suspect.

[Atama]

I agree with Peraine.

Giving a real life example, if someone bumped into me, and I looked at them and they were holding a $50 bill in their hand, and I knew I had one in my pocket, I'd put my hand in my pocket and check. If nothing was there I'd confront them. I don't see any difference.

Though giving people the ability to discreetly pocket the cash after stealing it is reasonable.

[Peraine]

That would be very cool, but I think just like pickpocketing, if they fail, it should give a different message out. Someone trying to be sneaky and failing is usually more suspicious than someone just doing something naturally :D

Actually, in one of the muds I used to play with a pickpocket class, and thiefly subclasses, there was a skill called 'sleight of hand'. It allowed you to slip things away and pull things out of pouches and containers (including clothing) without being seen. This included things like daggers and playing cards (for people who liked to cheat at cards :) )

[Gaven_the_Great]

How does the skill: thief work?

[TonyD]

Originally posted by Gaven_the_Great
How does the skill: thief work?

It's actually career: thief

Careers give you sets of skills. It's up to you guys to work out what each career helps with.

In this case, a pickpocket can get more money out of a pouch than a thief, but the thief is stealthier (and therefore less likely to get spotted), both when pickpocketing, and when doing other actions.