Combat ?

[Oliver White]

After speaking with a few staffers, it seems the game is closing in on gold status, with only a few systems requiring completion, one of which is combat. After having a bit of fun fencing last night, I got to thinking...

I'm wondering if staff could comment on the general aspects of our combat system. Specifically:

At first glance it seems there are gender differences; males get fewer actions than females. Is this true? What's the logic behind it? Are there other gender differences in combat?
What goes into determining a character's attack and defense rolls? A die roll as well as the relevant skill and relevant stat? (Is it true that a person's combat skill plays no role what-so-ever in their defense?)
Damage, is it calculated strictly on a per weapon basis, or do one's stats also play a roll?
Will there be methods IG to alter our stats? E.g., working out, practicing, etc.

[SC Lecter]

I didn't design how stats were calculated but I will be studying the current logic over the next few days and will be able to better answer these questions then. I will also likely make some adjustments for the sake of balance.

1. At first glance it seems there are gender differences; males get fewer actions than females. Is this true? What's the logic behind it? Are there other gender differences in combat?

This is true. I won't make any assumptions as to why since I really don't know. Taking a quick glance at the code, there are no other differences that stand out. Will give a better answer when I dig deeper.

2. What goes into determining a character's attack and defense rolls? A die roll as well as the relevant skill and relevant stat? (Is it true that a person's combat skill plays no role what-so-ever in their defense?)

Ah, this I can answer because I made changes today. Yes, attack rolls look at the relevant skill and relevant stat. I won't reveal which stats correspond with which skills.

As of today, combat skills do play a part in defensive capabilities. When an attack is made against you, you do a roll to dodge (relevant stat + perception) and a roll to parry (relevant stat + combat skill). Before today, defenses were rolled based on the relevant stat alone.

3. Damage, is it calculated strictly on a per weapon basis, or do one's stats also play a roll?

Don't know for sure but I think it has something to do with agility.

4. Will there be methods IG to alter our stats? E.g., working out, practicing, etc.

Probably not. I know this was promised before but I don't know what plans were being made. You know what skills are used in combat so you can train by studying those.

[Oliver White]

Lecter,

Thanks for the response. The one thing that does concern me is #1, and I really appreciate you further looking into it. (And I know you didn't write our combat code.) I fail to see why we need to have gender differences in combat. Yes, males and females are different, but if we're going to emphasize those differences in combat, then I don't see why we don't just expand that and use those differences in the @career system and give all females 30-50% lower pay and make the married ones immediately ineligible for jobs because their job is to stay home and make babies. Or, in less sarcastic tones, I'd love to have gender differences removed from combat entirely. You want to give someone more actions than someone else, base it on their speed or agility, not their sex.

Since you won't go into which stats are used with which combat skills (understandably), could you instead give a brief definition of the stats or at least correct my errors?

Strength - presumably the power of one's swing as well as how much one can lift? (Does this value affect the items a character can lift?)
Agility - one's coordination and ability to react physically to changing situations. The offensive side of one's reflexes?
Speed - how fast one can run or move and react? Speed is the defensive side of one's reflexes.
Intelligence - One's IQ, what IG effect it would have I'm not clear on.
Defense - This one's innate defense, based on body type, relevant stats, etc.. Presumably defense + worn armor is what is reported as armor in @cstat?

[SC Lecter]

Before I answer the new questions, I want to talk a bit about some updates I've made to @stats and combat in general.

1. There should no longer be any gender differences. Females, if you notice that you still have 250 action points when you type @cstat, file an assist. Everyone should have the same 200.
2. I got rid of stats that weren't being used: intelligence and power. So now when you type @stats, you should see body, agility, speed, armor, and hp.
3. I updated how @stats were calculated. Before there were so many random factors that it threw off the balance of the stats and fast/agile people had way more of an advantage than strong/slow people. It may not be perfect so please so file those assists if something doesn't make sense to you.
4. I updated existing weapons to work with the combat system. These include practice foils, bokkens, jians, and night sticks. Can anyone think of any existing props that should be coded as weapons? The staff from the costume shop comes to mind.


Body - aka strength; you may see a correlation between this and how much someone carry but neither of the two affect each other. For weapons that rely on brute strength rather than finesse, this stat helps determine how well you can hit. For most weapons, it also determines how much damage is inflicted.

Agility - offensive side of reflexes. For weapons that require finesse, this stat is critical in determining how well you can hit your target. It may also determine how much damage is inflicted.

Speed - defensive side of reflexes. How well you can parry and dodge.

Armor - This is a combination of natural armor (how well you can take a hit) and worn armor.

HP - How much damage you're able to endure before you're unable to continue fighting. Your overall HP is the sum of your body stat + 3.

When attacking:
Two rolls are done: a roll to attack and a roll to determine inflicted damage (if attack roll is successful). Attack rolls depend on weapon skill, relevant stat, and weapon's attack bonus. Damage rolls depend on relevant stat (not necessarily the same as the attack stat) and the weapon's damage bonus.

When defending:
Two rolls are done: a roll to dodge and a roll to parry. Dodge depends on speed and perception. Parry depends on speed and weapon skill.

Combat Skills:
Brawling - unarmed combat
Fencing - rapiers, bokkens
Firearms - guns
Handweapons - night sticks, swords, daggers, staves, crowbars, pretty much anything else that can be wielded
Perception - adds a bonus to dodge

Hope this answers your question and more :)

[Oliver White]

Awesome! Thank you (well, aside from lower Ollie by 1 hp).

And don't make the staff from the costume shop a weapon. Its examine text clearly states: A gnarled wooden staff, made of a light, weak form of ash wood. It almost appears to twist around and around to the tip. It'll break the minute you hit someone with it.

And you're missing 1 or 2 ranged combat skills from your list, if I'm understanding the corresponding skills correctly.

[Ironbeard]

For weapons, how about letting players wield shovels, canes or umbrellas - or would it be possible to allow improvised weapons - you can wield anything, but if it's not a specifically coded weapon it's mechanically the same as using your fists?

[Oliver White]

You can fake an improvised weapon easily enough:
attack ollie's head with my shovel
and it'll assume brawling skill and bare fists. And I'm fairly sure the system emits properly that
You hit Oliver White's head with your shovel causing a nasty bruise. (or words to that affect)

[Earen]

So why is there a skill that adds to dodge but no skill that adds to attack/parry? I dunno about you, but perception isn't an easy skill to find in-game for me. Also why does brawling not get a massive hit bonus based on body. i'd say that requires very little finesse.

[Oliver White]

So why is there a skill that adds to dodge but no skill that adds to attack/parry? I dunno about you, but perception isn't an easy skill to find in-game for me. Also why does brawling not get a massive hit bonus based on body. i'd say that requires very little finesse.

From how I'm reading Lecter's description:
attack is based on weapon + agility (or body)
parry is based on weapon + agility
dodge is based on perception + speed
so it looks like each is based on a skill + a stat, which seems right.

As for acquiring appropriate skills: there are at least as many classes that teach perception as there are classes that teach brawling (although it is much harder to figure out a priori which classes those are.). Further, I think there are at least a few tomes that teach perception to low levels, while there are no tomes that teach any combat skills (currently). Then again, there is an NPC teacher for one combat skill, but no teachers for any other skills. (Whatever happened to the 2nd teacher that was open for a few days?)

As for the new and improved combat calculations, I'm not entirely sold on them. The pendulum seems to have swung too far in the other direction, and I'll have to test a bit more before I truly approve.

[Ironbeard]

You can fake an improvised weapon easily enough:
attack ollie's head with my shovel
and it'll assume brawling skill and bare fists. And I'm fairly sure the system emits properly that
You hit Oliver White's head with your shovel causing a nasty bruise. (or words to that affect)


Cool, I didn't realise that was already in. Awesome work form the staff getting the system up.

[SC Lecter]

So why is there a skill that adds to dodge but no skill that adds to attack/parry? I dunno about you, but perception isn't an easy skill to find in-game for me.

There are skills that pertain to all rolls when attacking. Having high levels in a weapon will increase attacking, parrying, and possibly the amount of damage that is inflicted (still looking into the last one). High levels in perception will help with dodge.

Also why does brawling not get a massive hit bonus based on body.

It does. Have you tested it lately?

As for the new and improved combat calculations, I'm not entirely sold on them. The pendulum seems to have swung too far in the other direction, and I'll have to test a bit more before I truly approve.

Can you go into more detail about what you mean? As said before, I don't claim that the new calculations are perfect but I can guarantee it's a step toward being more balanced. For example, if you add up your body, agility, speed, and armor stats, they will add up to 24. This is true for everyone. Before, the sum of some people's stats were in the 30's while others would have a sum below 20.

[Pyra]

I guess I'm just pretty darn average then..

---- Combat Stats: ----
Body: 6
Agility: 6
Speed: 6
Armor: 6

Perhaps this is a result of having a body trait modified? (short--> avian)

I'm curious about ways to train yourself. Possibly have a max but let people somewhat adjust themselves?

Are monsters going to have 24 point buy as well? That doesn't seem very scary, if we're on even footing..

[Arthur]

I just got a question about armour.

Does armour make you harder to hit or does it reduce the ammount of damage you take?

[Oliver White]

I believe armor reduces the damage you take once hit. But it can have the negative effect of slowing you down so that perhaps you don't dodge or parry as well. As Lecter mentioned in the CDM (pretty much after everyone had left but me), the negative effects of armor won't be obvious in @stat/@cstat, but will be something you'll have to figure out.