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  • Games technology.

    Hello,

    I found skotos very recently, and I though that it can be a good idea.

    I have some questions though,

    The projects hosted by skotos, must use skotos technologies. A project has to be always a whole mud/game or can be just tools that could be used in other games?

    I have in mind a game/mud with some extra graphics ( not completely graphic..). The mud send codes to the client about how to create those (xml?).

    I been creating an example using flash in an existing mud, although for this case I had to put a bridge in Java to be able to create the apropiate messages. It is still a very simple example of what can be done.

    One screenshot:

    http://www.aluzine.com/raul/sc2.jpg

    Comments?

    Thanks very much

    Raul

  • #2
    Have you tried logging into Marrach? I can see nothing in your screenshot that isn't already done in Marrach in one way or another. The compas rose, inventory pane, etc. Marrach doesn't have stats, but that would be easy to add.

    -=- Matt

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    • #3
      Yes, I did, and it got broke. The map scrolled up and i couldnt see it any more.

      And that is for something that you are paying for.

      What I did is really the same, I used JTa behind, but Flash in the front end. You could do the same using java in the Front end too, but using flash makes a few things easier, adding graphics, movie clips or sounds. What you can see is somethng tat has been done quickly, around one week, by someone that never used flash before.

      Since flash pluin is usually in all the browsers you can save downloading time of heavy 2D 3D libraries and use nice effects quite easily. In hands of designers with some taste I think that it is a nice thing. Plus nor Castle Of Marrach neither aurora are though for having graphics, it could be a very nice tool for a game designed with this in mind.

      My idea was originally to make it client independent, using some XML-like tags, so the client could be build in pure java too ( like the existing one).

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rguiu
        Yes, I did, and it got broke. The map scrolled up and i couldnt see it any more.
        Got broke? Care to elaborate? Since I maintain the java client at least. If you were using the activex one, you're on your own.


        Since flash pluin is usually in all the browsers you can save downloading time of heavy 2D 3D libraries and use nice effects quite easily. In hands of designers with some taste I think that it is a nice thing. Plus nor Castle Of Marrach neither aurora are though for having graphics, it could be a very nice tool for a game designed with this in mind.


        Depends on your target browers. I find flash very unreliable on non-MS platforms. And as I predominately use Solaris, I'm not interested in a flash frontend.


        My idea was originally to make it client independent, using some XML-like tags, so the client could be build in pure java too ( like the existing one).
        Now I'm confused. I think you're proposing splitting the user side thing into two parts. A presentation layer (in flash) and a computation layer (in java) that then connects over a socket back to the server mothership. Am I correct here?

        -=- Matt

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        • #5
          [QUOTE]Got broke? Care to elaborate? Since I maintain the java client at least. If you were using the activex one, you're on your own.

          Oh! I will try to replicate it at home. If I can I will send you an screenshot, if I can not it will not be a problem anymore.


          [QUOTE]Now I'm confused. I think you're proposing splitting the user side thing into two parts. A presentation layer (in flash) and a computation layer (in java) that then connects over a socket back to the server mothership. Am I correct here?

          That way of splitting it is just a hack. Due the muds dont send clear information, just "text" (?).

          The ideal way should be to have an special Term type inside the mud that sends information about what is everything.

          It could be a bit crazy, and increase the bandwidth used, but create a xml schema with theinformation that the mud will be sending. Should be really easy to parse that info in the client, and doesnt mean too much extra load for the server ( since the mud already knows what will be sending). Two teams could be working in parallel, with the client and the mud. Could be something that you dont need for mud, since they are by definition "only text". But some graphics, some sounds,..etc add some spicy.

          Comment


          • #6
            A screenshot is probably less usefull than a description of the problem and the contents of whatever debugging console there is for the browser you are using. As well as full stats on things like browset version, os and hardware, etc.

            As to imbeded contant in a 'text' stream ... I'm again confused. Its only a text stream because you want it to be one. Marrach, GR and TEC already imbed non-text content in their server/client communications. Again, have you actaully tried any of these games? They all have maps (well, GR and Marrach do. I haven't tried TEC in a long while). As well they have bars, inventories, etc.

            Depending on the schema, wrapping everything in XML might help, might not. Depends on what you want, and how much power you're willing to assume on the client end. My expeirence is that the clinet can't do TOO much in Java before you start to notice it, but thats the price you pay for using a plugin. While definitely not perfect, teh scheme Marrach uses mostly works and is already extensible. Adding a XML wrapper wouldn't be bad, but I'd probably argue against sending too much graphic or sound data down your primary text socket. Better to use multiple sockets and alternate channels to not bog down the primary way you interact with the world - text.

            -=- Matt

            Comment


            • #7
              How am I suppose to find if the server is sending embeded info to the client or the client parses the text or some other way? If you publish how is that embeded info, someone else could be creating clients.

              And about the graphics thing. That was the good point of using flash, it creates the graphics or stores them in vectorial way.

              And well, flash doesnt work in every browser, but you probably know too the politic of some manufacturers adding slow VMs to the browsers. So for some people a flash client could be a better idea than a java applet.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rguiu
                How am I suppose to find if the server is sending embeded info to the client or the client parses the text or some other way? If you publish how is that embeded info, someone else could be creating clients.
                Ahh, you assume Skotos wants other people to be programming clients for their games, something that might be true, but might not be true. You'd have to chat with them about this. And its not like I'd expect the entire MUD/MUSH/MU/etc community to adopt whatever XML schema was proposed. Different needs for different people.

                And about the graphics thing. That was the good point of using flash, it creates the graphics or stores them in vectorial way.
                Maybe I'm underestimating flash, but how does it compare to just sending over a jpg for complex hand drawn pictures (like the popups in Marrach or the boarders for any of the games)? I would think at that point, bits is bits.

                And well, flash doesnt work in every browser, but you probably know too the politic of some manufacturers adding slow VMs to the browsers. So for some people a flash client could be a better idea than a java applet.
                Sure. I don't advocate people with IE run a java client. Doesn't make sense for them.

                Your initial proposal seemed to be a 'this will be better for all', which was a bit confusing. Especially as I know how Marrach currently works. I think some schema to give a bit of structure to the text flow would be fine, but I don't think it needs a lot. I'd also try really hard to keep there from being too much non-text content. Simple picutes and such (like maps) good. Animations? starting to get distracting.

                But, I'll also admit I'm not a front end guy at all. I do big back end systems. Simulators, compilers, etc. Thats my area of expertise. Nothing that a user should interact with bare.

                -=- Matt

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                • #9
                  I agree.

                  But, I'll also admit I'm not a front end guy at all. I do big back end systems. Simulators, compilers, etc. Thats my area of expertise. Nothing that a user should interact with bare.
                  Where are the front end people?

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                  • #10
                    From what I've seen of most OS's and programs, hiding in a hole somewhere.

                    If you mean at Skotos, here is a fine place. I'm just an early bird. And, for the record, have no real connection to skotos asside being a volunteer in a number of catagories. I don't speak for them with any authority.

                    I do know that more XML-izing was in teh plans at one point, but then reality set in.

                    -=- Matt

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                    • #11
                      Very helpful, thanks for your replies.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Seidl
                        Have you tried logging into Marrach? I can see nothing in your screenshot that isn't already done in Marrach in one way or another. The compas rose, inventory pane, etc. Marrach doesn't have stats, but that would be easy to add.
                        Actually, Grendel's Revenge also uses Alice, and it has stats and a number of other interface items.

                        -- Christopher Allen

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Flux Capacitor

                          If you affix a flux capacitor into the Java client, you can get Duran Duran playing while you play Marrach. Which would be cool.

                          Mike!
                          <-> V. Mayakovsky <->
                          Member of Her Majesty's Court
                          Favoured Student, College of Art of the Royal Collegium



                          " You ask how many friends I have? Water and stone, bamboo and pine.
                          The moon rising over the eastern hill is a joyful comrade.
                          Besides these five companions, what other pleasure should I ask?"


                          - Yun Son-Do (1587 - 1671)

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