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  • #61
    Originally posted by Josie_Brennan View Post
    Anyway, thanks for the clarification, special little snowflake.
    XD that gave me a good chuckle.


    • #62

      Honestly, I am glad she didn't die. There is something unique about her that makes her different from anyone else. I know it is very difficult to overcome something as dramatic as what has happened, and there are limitations as to what she can do, but that should not stop her from focusing on her strengths. Kona's soul may be damaged, but Kona, as a person, is not. There will be obstacles that Kona must overcome. There will be times when you feel like you cannot go any further. Everyone faces these challenges at some point.

      Once Kona gives in to her limitations, there will be little advancement in her character. A person with an amputated leg must find a way to get from one place to another. A person who has lost their sight must find a way to get around.

      Once Kona believes she can, she will.

      Remember that.
      Honored Guest
      Royal Page
      Keeper of Games
      Seeker in the Faith

      Currently studying sculpting as a:
      Member of the College of Humanities
      Mummer in The Unity


      • #63

        Thanks Taite. I appreciate that.

        I feel like I need to make a Kona Q&A thread at this point so I stop feeling the need to derail this one every time she is brought up just to set the record straight lol. Sorry guys.


        • #64
          Originally posted by Kurzon View Post
          In any case, we're in agreement that, whether the original reasons for that sentiment be justified or not, the community as it stands today would benefit from moving away from that mentality. It's actually something I've been trying to encourage since, well, long before I became Staff myself.

          Since we're on this topic: If any players out there want to sit down OOCly to discuss their ideas for collaborative plots, I'm more than happy to throw in my 2 cents and give advice or suggest alternatives (and by "sit down" I actually mean "send me an email"). In fact, even if you don't care for my opinion, if you want to simply let me know anyway that you're working towards a particular player run plot, just my knowing that can sometimes ensure that something we do as Staff doesn't accidentally quash it.
          I think we are in agreement here that the aforementioned mentality seems ill-fitting and the argument against it on the viewpoint (not yours someone else) doesn't make sense. I mean if one did want to critique discussing it OOC, the point that it makes it reasonably linear or predictable. Possibly. Maybe I used slightly too robust language? Then again I would and do in work environment anyway. Either way we agree here and would encourage people to work on collaborative plots beforehand.

          Originally posted by Kurzon View Post
          Speaking to the broader topic of duels and consequences, I struggle to imagine an example in which someone has been punished socially for losing (or fighting) a duel. I'd be far more afraid of mis-speaking in front of the wrong Court member insofar as 'fear of social ruin' is concerned. Certainly I can think of examples where someone was socially ostracized for *how* they conducted that duel (were they difficult about the duel, did they try to squeeze out of fighting it, did they set ridiculous terms, did they overtly violate the Code Duello, etc).

          But... if you've chosen to play a martial character, one that you want other players to see as martial in this story that is Castle Marrach, then dueling should be viewed as an opportunity for roleplay. If 'OOC fear of being embarassed to lose a duel' is an actual phenomena in the game right now, that speaks precisely to the avatarism I was referencing.

          For my part, at least, I've never initiated conflict roleplay with someone because I didn't like them. If I don't like someone, I'll avoid roleplaying with them at all, but if I pull them into conflict, it's because I trust them well enough to tell a story with me and not take an IC conflict OOCly. I have to hope that it's the same for most people in this community, or we really are in a bad way.
          Only example I can think of was someone very adverse to any sign of anything that might cause "social ruin" - wasn't duel related but certainly was avatarism related. "My problem..., my problem..., my problem..." Ugh.

          Originally posted by Kurzon View Post
          Replied. And I think the logs and testimony I sent you demonstrate that Staff actually had nothing to do with your plot and weren't aware of it, so I hope we can move past that and get things rolling together. My offer stands to help you with that or any other player plot to the best of my ability.
          And back with you now as well. Pleased about the offer to help, and discussing that over email

          Originally posted by Kurzon View Post
          I'm not sure which one of those announcements stripped you of your confidence in this community's future?

          Naturally, Staff have been busy discussing what the split from Skotos could mean for the game, up to and including using the occasion as an excuse to finally push seasonal change as an example of a more extreme talking point. At some point, a community sit down and meeting is due, but right now we don't even know when this split is occurring or what kind of timetable we're working with, so I don't want to hold a real "here are our plans" reveal until we have enough information to make those plans.

          Granted, of the things we have discussed, I'm not sure I would characterize any of them as "tearing down the game" by my definition, but I'm also not sure what you consider that to consist of.
          From that list, I'd go with all four? It read as being very... let's stick with how it's going and hope it makes money independently. Personally I am not sure it would work, I can't see it being financially viable (I mean while it's lovely Terms & Conditions for privacy policy were changed, I think actually all EU customers are meant to be told their privacy details are being split into small chunks and handed across to new businesses who have their own privacy policies) as I am not sure there are many mandated subscription models anymore? At least I wouldn't pick one up now-a-days when there is enough superb free stuff out there.

          Pushing to seasonal change, though, is something much more inspirational. Something akin to - "By XX date we will be moving the 20 year plot on. No ifs. No buts." Would do wonders around here, pushes people into organising themselves for the what next.

          Originally posted by Kurzon View Post
          Because sure, there's always room to do better. The statement "things would be better if you knew how to fix X problem" is literally always going to be true. Do I think the game would be a better place if Marrach Staff had the ability to make players like one another? Yes. Do I think it's a reasonable expectation for you to have of Staff? No. Does that mean I don't care or empathise or want to know about your troubles anyway? Also no.

          The quote in question originally came up while I was trying to assist you with a separate problem. That in itself could maybe be taken as an indicator that yes, we do empathize and want to help, even if we're unable to fix one specific problem. I honestly think it's a bit hyperbolic and unfair to say that's your reason for not running your own plots and then laying that on Staff.
          I wouldn't put that solely as my reason for not running plots, I perhaps wouldn't include it in that at all but rather - why would I bother logging in? But anyway. We've picked this up over email, so will hear back in a few days.

          Originally posted by Kurzon View Post
          If you wouldn't mind sharing, I'm curious to know what other political MUD/MUSH you're playing and what systems it implements that make it effective?
          We'll pick that up over email in a few days. Probably just some of the simple steps would work, for now, as do know time is limited on your end. Would love to see some more social systems installed as we've a great crafting one, a very detailed combat one but possibly missing that third part. It leaves us players of characters not very (or at all) combat focused going.. oh. But we've covered that in chats before.

          Originally posted by Kurzon View Post
          Well, it depends on what those players decide to do while online. If they just use it to sip tea and enjoy a slice of life, then yeah, that's all that will come of it. But I figure the first step to getting more stories happening is to have more people on at the same time.
          It is a fair point, just as someone at that awkward hour people logging in to build up a who list or @hot list but then are really just idling... it's the worst. False sense of hope that it might be me and someone else. That would be my worry, a chunky who list but everyone is idling because of work etc.

          Originally posted by Josie
          ​Maybe some basic plotting Q and As or a spot on the forums (when we get new ones) where people can ask plotter questions without them getting lost in the assist queue?
          This is a superb suggestion!

          Originally posted by Josie
          I realize I might be in the minority here with my opinion, so I'm okay getting blasted over it, but I genuinely think part of the challenge of CM is figuring out how to maneuver in the boxes, still grow and still reach the goals you set for your character. Everyone is quick to say 'Your ideas are great! Yes, hold all the things!' (IG, not just OOC. I'm not singling you out exclusively in that, Vasilisa) but not everyone is quick to ask 'Do you even have the skills to work with that? What have you done up to this point? Have you had any formal lessons? Where do you struggle? What would you like to work on? That may fall into the 'sipping tea' category for some folks, but I consider it part of the RP of a Renaissance life and I think it's important to RP out the little stuff too, not just the big stuff.
          As is this point and quite few others! x1000 there. I actually think that makes for some great character development (looking at you Edstave) which in turn promotes a bunch of other things.
          "In our age there is no such thing as ‘keeping out of politics.’ All issues are political issues, and politics itself is a mass of lies, evasions, folly, hatred and schizophrenia."

          "Although many of us consider ourselves forward-thinkers, we still cling tenaciously to the old values of the system."

          "Between two groups of people who want to make inconsistent kinds of worlds, I see no remedy but force"


          • #65
            I'm sorry I'm all over the place with my thoughts!! This will be the last I post on this topic, though, because I adore you to pieces, but I don't think we will agree unless we agree to disagree. I understand what you're saying, I just don't think that should be how the game goes. It takes a lot of fun and easy-going out of the game in my opinion. <333 Thanks for the discussion.

            To Josie's Player

            While this started about Taite, I'm honestly speaking in general for all of the game. It's too easy to pick and choose who is qualified to teach someone and who isn't. I do wonder who spent all that time teaching Josie to be a master at both dances because I've never seen anyone outside of Josie, Tamiko, and Diana do anything surrounding dancing. So pardon me if it's hard to believe Josie had enough lessons in four years with everything else she does to just know how to be a pro dancer and be able to teach it. I'm not saying she shouldn't teach it, actually the opposite. Often you learn things by trial and error; I've taught myself a lot of things in life, such as mild graphic designing, sewing, dancing, and cooking (which is still a work in progress). Crafting is the same, just because someone knows the skill it doesn't mean they are capable of teaching how to do that craft. It just means you had a bunch of lessons and probably experience so they slapped the label of a teacher on you. Of course, taking an actual class will only better things for you if they know what they're talking about. I'm not at all knocking that and saying you shouldn't learn from others at all. It's great if you do have someone to teach you, I just don't think it shouldn't be a requirement to do activities in the game. Especially when the majority of the people you named are in the Inner Bailey and not exactly hosting lessons for commoners the last time I checked. If we're being realistic, I imagine becoming a pro at anything you would probably need 10 years +. How does anyone ever get anywhere if they're not allowed to do anything and don't have anyone to teach them? I mean, sure, Josie holds bells in the Outer, but I've never seen any for sculpting. No one holds teaching bells for music, singing, or acting. Everything is dancing, painting, swords, and virtues. So it's still pretty hard for me to hear someone be told they can't have a sculpting bell until someone decides they have the time to share their "knowledge."

            With that being said, I recognize you weren't the one who said she couldn't. I'm not attacking you, just commenting on the parts I've read. So I will never encourage anyone to only do something if they have someone to teach it. I will certainly list it as an option if they can find someone, but I would never make that a requirement. It's a game, the moment we start making it too much like real life you have to discuss the holes in everything and everyone. I'm not saying anyone should pretend to have the skills if they don't, but I don't think they should be banned from doing things just because someone doesn't think what they do isn't good enough to be shared. Especially in the Outer.

            I'm still confused about what her being promoted has to do with her sculpting. If anything, being active in the Outer should help her. If someone doesn't want her promoted because she mistakenly forced their emotions in a sculpture (which is an ooc issue) then something is very off with the way they decide on rank and favor to me. Maybe I missed it because I lazily read the majority of this... v.v. The position, however, I understand that you need to have a big portfolio and favor to get certain positions. That goes back to my original point, though. If the game is going to force her to go through a hundred hoops that no one else is asked to go through, who is going to teach it? It's easy to say someone should learn from others. But where are these qualified and eager to teach people? Because Jeffery whom I adore does not regularly play nor has he ever held a sculpting lesson since I've played Vasilisa. So I'm also wondering how Josie even learned from him when he is never around. But... Okay.


            To Taite's Player

            I'll be honest, after reading Josie's post I was too lazy and mostly skimmed your response. However, the majority of the stuff you mentioned are things that need to be learned oocly and are pretty easy too. Like not forcing emotions or actions, not being too modern, or creating things your character has never seen. That's just common sense and if it's not it should be pretty easy to recognize once someone tells yo without someone stopping you from doing an activity like shaping snow. Instead of being required to take a lesson, the Unity should give them tips and advice on what to fix rather than do a hundred classes where people just paint without really understanding how to paint. When I used to do painting lessons, I would go into different techniques that can be used, what type of paints are available, how many coats to use, how to hold the brush, etc., etc. I rarely see classes where someone 'actually' teaches what the class is for. Galatea, Josie, and Melle are the only three that I've seen actually teach and not just give a lesson or let someone paint/spar. I guess that's why I think it's too easy to just label people as teachers and tell others they can only learn from this group.

            If you think you can do better with the assistance of a nonexistent sculpting teacher then more power to you. As mentioned before, I wasn't solely discussing you. You were just an available example of why it's odd to force people to only have activity bells if they've learned from someone who is probably just as clueless as them on the topic.


            • #66
              I agree we should agree to disagree lol. I hear what you're saying but similarly don't agree with the way you think the game should go, despite also loving you as a player and on a variety of characters. I don't believe it should be easy-going and fun a hundred percent of the time, maybe because I had to work and scrounge for lessons in various things for the last 3 or 4 years and put in tons of work IG and OOC to get my characters to where they are. I expect it should be consistent and a similar level of difficulty for other people, otherwise it's basically a handout for you taking OOC information, copy and pasting it IG and not doing any RP to surround you obtaining the knowledge of it IG. Most of the teaching I received in sculpting, miniature portraits and things of that nature was during my first year playing when Jeffery was active. He's also the person who got her promoted to Royal Artist, which I doubt would have happened without him. There were other people teaching dancing, sometimes in the Inner, and with IB access you could attend. I also had old links and sites to classes that were held by Luminary Zhane, but at some point I think they must have hit a time limit on angelfire or angelfyre (can't recall now), because when I tried to go back and link them into Unity files so they could be referenced like 'books' it said the link was no longer available/had been removed, and staff declined giving me access to the previous files he had for ballet and the like. Anyway, not all lessons and instruction is public. When sculpting was taught I recall it was just a handful of people who were given permission to go and learn and the requirements IC and OOC were made clear from the get-go, same thing with the miniature portraits. There was a lot of oversight, it was restricted, but you received knowledge IG you wouldn't have been able to get otherwise, so it was a huge privilege. The point is just because you as a player don't know the whole journey of someone doesn't mean they haven't put in the work nor that you should assume OOCly they've made up the entirety of what they know and are not qualified teachers. People learn stuff all the time out of favoritism, privately, but what matters is that the RP is there. If Taite (for example) said she had been taking private lessons with Mistress Lilly, I would just trust that and trust Lilly's expertise in the matter because she's a Royal Jeweler and that is completely within her skillset, whether that is bluebooked or otherwise. I care more about the roleplay than the mechanics. You get martial people who can get to Mastery in less than a handful of years, so 10 isn't realistic, even by game standards. We just don't have a system to measure the level of mastery in artistry, so that's why the roleplay and the story surrounding the journey and skills is important, in my opinion.

              <.< Last response for me too on the topic. I do see where you're coming from, but nobody is talking about banning anyone from anything. Taite is limiited within her job roles as to what she can hold and teach, but as we established before she could strike out on her own and do what she wants so long as she's aware that not everyone is going to be IG supportive of that. And, for the record, I don't feel attacked by anything you say. Your experiences and your opinions are your own, and I'm sure there are other people feel and think the same way. It would be boring if we all had the same views and ideas, so thanks for sharing yours.
              Acolyte Natura of the Faith
              Head of Household for her Ladyship Sinvy
              Leader of the Stylists
              Mistress of Entertainments
              Patron of the Duelists
              Royal Artist
              Ranger Recruit
              Squire to Dame Galatea


              • #67
                *Hides popcorn*

                Future or present reference, Taite has only had a couple lessons from Colby, and some pointers for creating from Charmiam when Taite was creating a bust of her. So, she hasn't, really, had the one-on-one time with sculptors to teach her the fundamentals of sculpting.

                Has Taite made a slide going from the landing to the ground in the courtyard? Of course she has. Is it realistic? No, not really. It was, definitely, fun, though.

                Has she made a snow ball and had people kick it around? Yes. And, before you ask, it is not realistic. Large snowballs hurt when kicked, and they break. But, it was fun!

                I know, now, that creating balls and slides that go from the landing to the ground are not really realistic. (I would probably do it again if I could get away with it, though.) But, I have learned by people telling me what is appropriate and what is not. I have played with snow enough to know what I am capable of doing with snow. (Throwing ball in a snow goal you cannot do, but you can kick it in. When you pack a snowball into a pile of snow, you actually drop the snowball.) Every learning experience that everyone goes through helps them become better.

                Everyone has different hours of play time, and a lot of people who know how to do what you do, they are MIA.

                Vasi's P and Josie's P, I respect both characters and players very much. You each see things differently, and I am sure others see things another way or have their own views. There are no set rules on what you have to believe. In game, I believe both characters have a good idea of what Taite wants or needs because you have both spent that time with her to get to know her. Taite is the Keeper of Games, which is under the Assistant Mistress of Entertainments (Courtier position) which is under the Mistress of Entertainments (Josie). Josie has not spent much time with her outside of job-related things. Jo knows where Taite wants to end up and knows how to get where she wants to be.

                Vasi knows Taite outside of any jobs. When she sees Taite being all work and no play, she says something to her. Vasi is a huge supporter of people enjoying their time awake, and I love this about her. Sometimes, Taite does need to be reminded to take a break and have a little fun.
                Honored Guest
                Royal Page
                Keeper of Games
                Seeker in the Faith

                Currently studying sculpting as a:
                Member of the College of Humanities
                Mummer in The Unity


                • #68
                  I think this quote from Avaria on an old forum post ( is relevant to some points that have been covered here about storytelling, enjoying the game, and progressing in it if that's what you want to do. I also think they're just really good to remember (and that Avaria is great)!

                  Originally posted by Avaria

                  I would also recommend that anyone considering playing Marrach read the backround documents (including the handbook) as soon as they can. They don't have to do so immediately, some of the fun is blindly exploring a new place; but there are elements built into the structure of the game that do, indeed, make it not the place for everyone.
                  • This is a Slow-Paced Game: This much should be evident at the start. The game's full title is Castle Marrach: The Forever Winter. Take a moment to think about that title, particularly the subtitle. Forever as in infinite. Winter as in frozen. One bit of trivia available in the handbook is that Lord Boreas (the 2nd in command) is known as a chess master. There are chess boards scattered around the castle now. It may help some to think of this game in terms of that game. You progress carefully, often slowly, or you lose pieces. The scale here is centuries, not days or months. And, while it is entirely possible to effect change, you still have to accept that, in most cases, it won't happen tomorrow.
                  • This is a Game of Politics: On the introductory page it comes right out and says that intrigue is one of the major themes of the game (along with romance, mystery, and fantasy). All of the defnitions apply. You are being introduced into a heirarchy at the bottom level and have the opportunity to change that (not necessarily always for the better). Having some understanding of how people relate to each other will help. But there's that Political element again. People often complain that certain people/groups/the Court in general are unfair. It's possible for it to get out of hand; but, to a certain degree... that's part of the challenge of the game.
                  • This is a Game of Favor: This is one of the key dynamics of the game's society. Favor can also translate to "people who like you, may be willing to help you" (oddly this seems to be one of the recurrent complaints). When you start you have zero favor, and it's up to you, and only you, as to whether that changes. Good manners, persistance, all the things mentioned in Jerisa's post will help you gain favor in certain circles. Other traits and personalities may appeal to others.
                  • This is a Game which Requires Work: What your character gets during their time in Castle Marrach is, more often than not, directly related to what they (and you) put into it. Again, different groups look for different things, but if your character does what is asked of them in a manner and of a quality that pleases someone, that someone will be more inclined to give them a benefit. As a random example, if two characters were asked to gather muck out of a swamp and then examine it and write up their findings, the person with the more detailed report will be appreciated but so will the person who didn't whine or complain about sloshing around in the muck. Tangible work (whether it be hosting a meeting, guarding the Castle, writing a Chronicle, creating jewelry or any other crafted item, or posting commentary on the public board) is the best way, even for people who play during "unusual hours" to be visible, and open themselves up to Favor (postive or negative). It's what you make of it, really.
                  • Ultimately This Game is Not a Competition: Yes, there are ranks. Yes, there are skill levels. But, I promise you, if you define your character entirely upon their status and skills, you will have a far less rich experience than you might otherwise. This game was created as a place for communal storytelling around a central theme. The important thing is not so much what you are, as it is who you are. Rank and skills may add flavor to certain characters, but it is certainly not everyone's destiny to be a Courtier or a Knight or a Noble. Find a place that you -enjoy- and work to get there and stay there.
                  I don't have anything more to add other than I think she sums it all up really well.

                  The end, no moral!

                  ~ Keeper of the Royal Vault
                  ~ Handmaiden of Her Majesty, Queen Vivienne