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New Game Feature: Social Points

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  • New Game Feature: Social Points

    Hi all,

    This morning we're releasing a new, small feature for Castle Marrach; Social Points.



    What are they?

    Social Points are points accrued for social activity, and have intended use for a number of systems presently just around the corner:
    • Social Points serve as the non-martial counterpart to CombatXP in the soon-to-be-released revised teaching system for Castle Marrach. When said system is released, using the @study command to commence lessons will require CombatXP for martial lessons and Social Points for all other skills. While this isn't yet implemented, it doesn't hurt to get a head start stocking up on these points.
    • Social Points will be able to be converted into Research Points for the creation of new Sorcery spells when the revised spell submission process and @research command are released (also right around the corner).
    • Social Points down the road may be convertable into StoryPoints. This would a means for players not wanting to purchase StoryPoints or upgrade to Premium to slowly accrue StoryPoints for in-game activity. This is still a hypothetical and would have to come at a low enough conversion rate that players who purchase StoryPoints more directly are not shortchanged for their dollar.

    How are they obtained?

    Social Points are generated passively over time whenever your character is in a room with at least one other character, and neither of you are idle. What qualifies as 'idle' in this context only the gremlins know, but be assured it's a significantly smaller window than is required to be seen as 'idle' on the who list. Suffice to say, if you're paying attention to your window and don't have overly long delays in between your emits, you'll continue generating Social Points, but if you step off to make a sandwich, it's likely the script will pause.

    We're experimentally allowing that Social Points can be generated even if a character is alone, so long as they are in one of the 'primary hotspots' (locations you can use @hotspots from). You still have to be unidle to gain these points, and points gained while alone in a hotspots room will come at a slower rate than normal, but increase back to the regular rate once joined by another unidle character.

    There is a daily cap on Social Points, just like with CombatXP. You'll know when you hit that cap; the script is nice enough to give you a heads up and even a little shoulder pat. Like similar caps, this limit resets at midnight.

    You can check the status of your Social Points at any time using the @stats command.
    StoryHost Kurzon
    Castle Marrach Staff

    kurzon.marrach@outlook.com

    The destiny of the world is determined less by the battles that are lost and won than by the stories it loves and believes in.

  • #2
    I know the following would be much more code intensive an addition. It is something I'd expect to throw at the bottom of ideas that we will never get to. Regardless, I had the idea so wanted to share it.

    See, half the time I play, I forget about @kudos. There are times when I'm in a really good scene and will remember to give someone their @kudos. When you are gaining social points, reminding those of us that keep forgetting about that command would be helpful. Even if it is random or ever tenth point.

    Just some idle thoughts,

    Comment


    • #3
      Sounds great! Do we have an idea of how much XP it will take to qualify for a lesson?

      My only concern is that with our current CombatXP system I believe you get less XP for losing a match? I may be wrong, but I thought it was something like 1 for a loss and 3 for a win. So for those of us that can't realistically come out on top of a spar it could slow our lessons considerably. This would mostly be an issue for sorcery characters, especially newer ones that don't have access to combat spells yet, perhaps that would be by design but it also might make it more difficult on newlies to start learning since they would have to do quite a few more matches.

      Big fan of social points though!

      Comment


      • #4
        I believe this would be a good system as it gets people to work for what they want.

        I also believe that to help newer guests out, lower skills would cost less points than higher skills.

        For example...

        Level 1 skill - free.

        Level 2 skill - 10 points

        Level 3 skill - 20 points.

        And so on.

        Obviously, the higher skill you want, the more points that would be needed to receive a lesson. Regardless of pass or fail, the next lesson would be the same amount until you pass. For the hard heads who can't pass a lesson if their life depended on it, this could cost you quite a few points.
        Honored Guest
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        Currently studying sculpting as a:
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        • #5
          I love the social points idea! I'm wondering, though; it seems to me that one can only get combat xp from duel2.0. I would love it if one could also get combat xp from Mcombat! Just my two cents. I also agree with Kona and Taite that the system should make allowances for new fighters so that their potential for growth isn't stunted.
          Hildegard Helmsdottir
          Battler
          Awakener

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          • #6
            Since we seem to be keeping the RNG lesson pass element in the game the system in place seems alright without a ramp up for higher levels imho. I know that better teachers and teachers with higher skill levels already are a factor. I'm not so sure we should charge higher skilled players more since they actually have a lower chance already to pass, unless it's to further slow their progress beyond that of the current system in place.

            I would suggest giving the same CombatXP for a win or a loss. Even losing is learning and i'd rather it not punish weaker characters...of course I am playing one of those so I may be bias.

            Honestly, I would rather see the RNG completely taken out of the game and it cost a specific amount of XP to get a single "lesson" that was a guaranteed level, sort of like an RPG that makes you find a trainer before progressing, I also wouldn't mind putting an ICly test at some of the higher ranks where your teacher could choose to hold you back until you were capable of roleplaying your skill effectively. Make them larger numbers that will take awhile to amass. That would be my ideal. On things like social points it might get a bit wonky if you have a teacher that logs very rarely but honestly in those situations I would view your amassed social XP you're putting towards your next level as your own study of it between true lessons.

            Comment


            • #7
              But this could also effect people who are in a crafting guild. Progression will be much slower.

              If you have someone who can give lessons every night, that's fine, but if you log on only to receive the lesson, you will not have enough points for such. So, it's possible people might get frustrated and avoid crafting guilds altogether. You would want to bring people into the guilds, so, perhaps, using points for these skills might not be a great idea in the long run.

              Perhaps, instead, we could use points for services rendered which would help with the progression of the skills within the guild.

              I'm an honored guest. I am active, and I save up my points. So, I decide, I want an outfit. The full outfit is 50 points. I have worked for that, and that is where I want my points to go. That 50 points that I used for an outfit can go into the guild in which the guildmaster can allot the points how he/she sees fit. Ah, so the clothiers have a new member. Everyone else who is active is at the level we should be, so let's give them the points so they can level up their skills.

              But then again, are people willing to put forth the effort into making this stand? Will it, ultimately, slow down business for the crafters?
              Honored Guest
              Acting Leader of the Awakeners
              Royal Page
              Keeper of Games
              Seeker in the Faith


              Currently studying sculpting as a:
              Member of the College of Humanities
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              Comment


              • #8
                I think Kona and Taite have valid concerns. Btw, Kona What is RNG?
                Hildegard Helmsdottir
                Battler
                Awakener

                Comment


                • #9
                  PaladinHeart RNG stands for random number generator. Basically the dice roll that happens when you get a lesson to see if you pass or not.

                  Taite I think that's actually the point of the update. To make people RP around the castle to get enough points for a lesson later on. Sort of forcing a certain amount of RP before you can progress. If you're a character that logs only for lessons I think that's sort of frowned upon. I don't know the numbers or anything, but I assume a normal player will have enough for few lessons every week with the new system. There may be a point where you turn down lessons that aren't useful for your character since it would be a waste of points that you could be banking for later though, but that's also likely intended since a common complaint is "Everyone can do everything"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Considering my IB character gets, like, no lessons in anything anyway except once in a blue moon, and that more than half-the-time he is logged in he is basically sitting alone idle in a room waiting for anyone else to log in, I have to say that this wasn't really thought through for pragmatic effect.

                    To me, it kind of is an 'extrovert incentive.' If you are here hobnobbing but actually idling in the Refectory, that 'counts' for RP. But if you spend a few bells writing a book for a plot device, that doesn't. Somewhat a perverse incentive.
                    ~ Gareth Beaumains ~

                    ~ For Love! For Valour!
                    ~ For Honour! For Glory!
                    ~ Onwards to Adventure!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Gareth View Post
                      Considering my IB character gets, like, no lessons in anything anyway except once in a blue moon, and that more than half-the-time he is logged in he is basically sitting alone idle in a room waiting for anyone else to log in, I have to say that this wasn't really thought through for pragmatic effect.

                      To me, it kind of is an 'extrovert incentive.' If you are here hobnobbing but actually idling in the Refectory, that 'counts' for RP. But if you spend a few bells writing a book for a plot device, that doesn't. Somewhat a perverse incentive.
                      Seems more to me like the hope was to incentivize role-play in an online role-playing game. Writing a book as a plot device alone in your room is great in the long run, don't get me wrong and there should be some sort of reward for something along those lines. Alternatively, couldn't the character writing said book write it in the library instead? Or sit in the Great Hall while it's quiet and as soon as a crowd comes in, emit closing the book and tucking it away before prying eyes try and get a look at it? Not trying to dictate how you role-play, just trying to provide alternative solutions to the problem that was put forward.

                      That being said, I think it's a good idea to work towards incentivizing collaborative storytelling in a way that also works toward allowing people the opportunity to use these points to advance beyond what the current teachers in the player-base might be able to teach them.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That reminds me. I'd really like to see some way to further skills by ourselves. Of course something like that poses a problem with training guidelines and people having the ability to over-train themselves. Even if it is implemented at a snails pace and sucks up a boat-load of social points or combat xp, It would be nice, honestly it should probably be so astronomically priced that you'd think twice about using it.

                        I just think it would be cool if the guidelines were the point where a trainer can't move you past without you ranking up but you could be able to advance beyond them with serious dedication and personal study, add a bit more realism to the game and give us a fall back for when trainers go to rest for long periods without needing staff involvement.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think this is a good idea.

                          This promotes role play. It helps the castle become more active, and we all know the incentive for people logging on each day. Without people, there would be no game. In the long run, how do we make things more interesting to keep people coming back?

                          I do not know if anyone else has noticed, but there are days when there is barely anyone about. Maybe a few people in the Inner Bailey, but I'm the OB resident. Of course, conversation can be brought to the bridge to include me, but if they did not know I was awake, how would they know I needed company?

                          Sadly, I have run into this problem many times.

                          Honored Guest
                          Acting Leader of the Awakeners
                          Royal Page
                          Keeper of Games
                          Seeker in the Faith


                          Currently studying sculpting as a:
                          Member of the College of Humanities
                          Mummer in The Unity

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ra'Dorcha View Post
                            See, half the time I play, I forget about @kudos. There are times when I'm in a really good scene and will remember to give someone their @kudos. When you are gaining social points, reminding those of us that keep forgetting about that command would be helpful.
                            Well, you get a notification whenever you receive a social point (something I need to create a toggle for actually). Maybe seeing the point gain could be used as its own @kudos reminder when you see it?

                            Originally posted by Kona View Post
                            Sounds great! Do we have an idea of how much XP it will take to qualify for a lesson?
                            It won't quite work like that. 1xp will be enough to 'qualify for a lesson', but then it only puts 1xp towards leveling up that skill. I have an idea of how much xp it will take to pass a lesson, but that figure varies widely depending on the skill in question and the level of that skill (you can expect, for example, martial skills to take much longer to raise than Northern).

                            Originally posted by Kona View Post
                            My only concern is that with our current CombatXP system I believe you get less XP for losing a match? I may be wrong, but I thought it was something like 1 for a loss and 3 for a win.
                            It's1 for a loss, 2 for a win I believe, though that figure is for Duel2 only, not MCombat. Because of how quickly Duel2 matches go compared to MCombat (rarely longer than 60 seconds) my observations have been that even new characters who frequently lose their matches aren't seeming to have any difficulty reaching their daily cap of 10pts per day. Well, at least when Duel2 was the primary combat system being used. That's changed with the favouritism now shown towards MCombat, which is a fairly recent development in truth.

                            CombatXP for MCombat is awarded based on the length of the match. IIRC it was at a rate of +1xp per combat round after the 2nd or 3rd round, which means you're getting a handful per fight (easily capping out your daily limit in a single fight during some of the longer 10-round-plus team battles).


                            Originally posted by PaladinHeart View Post
                            I love the social points idea! I'm wondering, though; it seems to me that one can only get combat xp from duel2.0. I would love it if one could also get combat xp from Mcombat!
                            There is an existing CombatXP script built into MCombat already, in fact (see above!). I had to disable it because for some reason it was giving people bizarre amounts of CombatXP while also not respecting the daily cap (someone got a few months worth of CombatXP in one fight). This is on my list of things to fix.

                            Originally posted by Kona View Post
                            Since we seem to be keeping the RNG lesson pass element in the game...
                            We're not.

                            Removing RNG from the skill system is one of the primary goals of the new teaching system.


                            Eg; You require maybe 100cxp to learn Journeyman Cut (example figure). You have 35cxp set aside from dueling or wherever. Your teacher, based on his Apprentice Teaching skill, may only be able to teach you 25pts of your cxp per day. You already have 50cxp pts put towards your Journeyman Cut from earlier lessons, so today's lesson will bring you to 75/100cxp, and leaving you with 10pts of cxp in your pool for another martial lesson tomorrow. Earn another 15 to bring yourself up to 25, and tomorrow's lesson from the same teacher will pass you.

                            Originally posted by Gareth View Post
                            Considering my IB character gets, like, no lessons in anything anyway except once in a blue moon, and that more than half-the-time he is logged in he is basically sitting alone idle in a room waiting for anyone else to log in, I have to say that this wasn't really thought through for pragmatic effect.
                            Hey Pete. Certainly it's true that the Inner Bailey tends to be less populated and active than the Outer. I'm not sure however that I see why this update would exacerbate that dilemma as opposed to helping alleviate it? At least, from where I'm sitting, the theory and intention behind this update is that it will cause more people to be out RPing in the Inner in pursuit of their daily allotment of points, during which they'll find people like Pete sitting out in public doing the same?

                            Originally posted by Gareth View Post
                            To me, it kind of is an 'extrovert incentive.' If you are here hobnobbing but actually idling in the Refectory, that 'counts' for RP. But if you spend a few bells writing a book for a plot device, that doesn't. Somewhat a perverse incentive.
                            There are certain safeguards to prevent people trying to accumulate points while not really RPing. Specifically, someone has to remain particularly unidle during RP in order to obtain their points as the script can (and does) check down-to-the-second how long you've gone since your last emit, and if you overstep a certain threshold, you don't get any points.

                            Sure, it's not a perfect system, it can be circumvented if someone really wanted. In theory, someone could sit in the Refectory typing 'touch my nose' every minute or so - while also ignoring people who find them in that public room and try to interact with them, and thusly cheat the system... but if someone's putting that much effort into avoiding roleplay, I think perhaps it speaks to a deeper issue with how that person is philosophically approaching the game to begin with, and is perhaps a problem with that player not the system?

                            However you bring up an excellent point; I'm all for exploring additional means of obtaining Social Points. Incidentally, one of Staff's goals right now is to push and encourage player-run plots, so I think it would be a great idea to tie these in together. I see no reason why we can't offer Staff issued Social Points to players who write and carry out their own plot stories. Some form of @command would have to be issued to allow players to 'submit' for the points, and we'd need some kind of standardized set of rules around this (what qualifies as a 'player run plot', does this have to be submitted before or after carrying it out, who qualifies for the extra points, etc).


                            StoryHost Kurzon
                            Castle Marrach Staff

                            kurzon.marrach@outlook.com

                            The destiny of the world is determined less by the battles that are lost and won than by the stories it loves and believes in.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Kona View Post
                              That reminds me. I'd really like to see some way to further skills by ourselves. Of course something like that poses a problem with training guidelines and people having the ability to over-train themselves. Even if it is implemented at a snails pace and sucks up a boat-load of social points or combat xp, It would be nice, honestly it should probably be so astronomically priced that you'd think twice about using it.

                              I just think it would be cool if the guidelines were the point where a trainer can't move you past without you ranking up but you could be able to advance beyond them with serious dedication and personal study, add a bit more realism to the game and give us a fall back for when trainers go to rest for long periods without needing staff involvement.
                              In a social RP game I don't want to remove one of the more common social incentives in the game by allowing people to raise their skills sitting alone in their bedroom. As it stands we have a number of minor systems that allow you to advance/progress without needing other people present (harvesting skills, Social Points, CombatXP by fighting MCombat CNPCs) and don't want to lean too heavily in that direction? That aside, we also need some kind of check-and-balance system to preserve rarer skills or anyone will be able to learn to Grandmaster anything.

                              Martial guidelines are going to be removed, however, and replaced with hard coded limitations. I've never, ever liked them, they were always an IC solution to an OOC problem, and as a solution it neither made much sense ICly (imagine D'Artagnan couldn't rival the other musketeers with a sword because his low rank... somehow magically prevented him from improving) nor has it proven very effective at actually achieving what it was intended to do anyway (if you can still get within guidelines to learn Sr Art level dueling skills within a few months of creating a char, why bother having the guidelines to begin with).

                              The hard coded system will essentially 'force' slow progression by limiting the amount of CombatXP you can get per day, and then requiring increasingly high amounts of CombatXP for higher level sword skills. It may therefore take you a few months of training to advance one martial skill from Artisan to Senior Artisan. No magic barrier, strange IC law or other external factor will be preventing your character, storywise, from learning to the highest levels they can, save their own innate abilities. There are certain additional restrictions and choices to be made with regards to the very highest skill levels. One of them is Mastery Points, required to unlock Master+ level skills, these are less casually obtained than regular CombatXP or Social Points and are obtained by certain in-game feats (winning a big tourney, defeating a powerful plot enemy in MCombat, etc), the other is 'specialization' which will automatically unlock the higher tiers of certain skill sets depending on whether you've chosen to specialize as a fighter, crafter or scholar.
                              StoryHost Kurzon
                              Castle Marrach Staff

                              kurzon.marrach@outlook.com

                              The destiny of the world is determined less by the battles that are lost and won than by the stories it loves and believes in.

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