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I'm not an evil woman... I just play one on Marrach...

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  • I'm not an evil woman... I just play one on Marrach...

    I would like to humbly point out that while my character, Ximena, might differently motivatived and hold her own moral code on Marrach, I am not the same woman that she is. I am just another player. I am not evil. I am not 'out to get you' personally. Ximena is a character. I, the player, am not Ximena.

    I have gentle request about the way some people/characters have begun to treat me. Just because your alt has run afoul with Ximena, please do not start having all of your alts acting like Ximena is the wicked witch of the West and treating her like she is pond scum. Especially if our characters have never met.

    I have worked hard to get Ximena into a decent position with some favor. Ximena is not all bad. She has a lot of good qualities. Also, Ximena is not Morte. She has never publically attested to being anything other than flirtatious chronicler who volunteers for work, who administrates the Western language and who mentors other chronicler aspirants.

    I know how hard things got for Morte. I also know that 'differently motivated' characters bring spice to the game. It's appropriate for there to be IC anger if your character or one your character cares for has been affected by 'one of the bad guys.' It is not appropriate for there to be OOC anger or metagaming in order to gain revenge.

    In the future, if you, as a player, have a concern on where something is going ICly between your character and mine, please do not hesistate to stop, drop to OOC, and discuss the matter with me. I have Ximena in the game to make things interesting. I, as a player, am not out to get anyone.

    Also, if you would like to discuss possible possible plots with someone like Ximena, please do not hesitate to contact me OOCly at ximena_rose@yahoo.com.

    Ximena's player
    Ximena Rose
    Scribe and Accountant of the Exchequer
    ximena_rose@yahoo.com

  • #2
    Ximena's evil? !!!

    Kathy N
    "I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings"
    ~ Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers

    Comment


    • #3
      She's as evil as Twulf is a goodie two shoes...

      Way to go Ximena! Show those people out there who think that good will conquer all is just a myth!

      Twulf
      Harbormaster: Hold up there, you! It's a shilling to tie up your boat at the dock... and I shall need to know your name.

      Jack Sparrow: What do you say to three shillings and we forget the name.

      Harbormaster: Welcome to Port Royal, Mr. Smith!

      Comment


      • #4
        Might I humbly suggest you restate that post a bit? Because you seem to want to point out that there is a differece between OOC and IC (which is only fair... from an OOC point of view, I find Ximena amusing while she has turned out to mainly bore Dariel these days, but that again, is his vision, not mine)... anyhow, amongst this, I stumble over a sentence like

        "[...]the way some people/characters have begun to treat me."
        That seems to indicate that you make no distinction between Ximena and yourself (which I don't assume you do).

        Then, there is content in your post which can -in my not so humble opinion- not stand the way it is formulated...

        "It is not appropriate for there to be OOC anger[...]"
        For starters, you are on one hand right, it should not happen... but there is no law prohibiting it, and neither you nor I nor anybody else have a right to dictate how another person should feel. If I am OOCly angry aboutt an IC happening (oh, let's say the Second Winter Ball for example), I am well within my rights to feel like that, and quite willing to step onto the toes of everyone who tells me what I am doing is "not appropriate".

        If I understood correctly, the core of your post was that you think there are people who have all their Alts fall into the same mold as one chracter of theirs in regard to Ximena. I cannot speak for everyone, but I hardly believe any of the players I regularly interact with would fall for something like this. Rather, there might be a few things you might or might not be aware of which influence people's reception of Ximena, simple first impressions (some people simply have intuition... Dariel's surely hasn't led him wrong so far), rumours or having read a forums post by Ximena. I would like to ask if whomever you were refering to actually told you "I/one of my characters do/does not like you/Ximena and therefore, none of my characters will ever like Ximena". If so, fine. If not, you're just stooping to false accusations...

        As far as your description of Ximena goes, well, it's your character, so you would probably know best... I would not at all agree it, but that's a matter of perspective, I would rule.


        On a lighter note, I'd like to pick up your offer to construct the develepment of someone's relationship to Ximena for a comment. I for one have found that the most interesting things in character relations happen when you do not plan for them. After all, we are not talking about a plot, we're talking about a simulation of real living people, with their own ideas how their life should be... but I assume that's a matter of taste...


        Have a nice day.


        PS. I wonder what exactly you mean with "metagaming in order to gain revenge"... Maybe you might elaborate on that, but only if it is relevant to your post.
        'If you're going through hell, keep going.'
        -- Winston Churchill

        POLITENESS, n.
        The most acceptable hypocrisy.
        -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary


        'Hitler had a good 20 to 30 IQ points on Bush, so comparing Bush to Hitler would in many ways be an insult to Hitler.'

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: I'm not an evil woman... I just play one on Marrach...

          1) Ximena is a character. I, the player, am not Ximena.

          2) Ximena is not all bad. She has a lot of good qualities.

          3) I know how hard things got for Morte. I also know that 'differently motivated' characters bring spice to the game.

          4) In the future, if you, as a player, have a concern on where something is going ICly between your character and mine, please do not hesistate to stop, drop to OOC, and discuss the matter with me.

          I just wished to point out the above points you made.

          Ra' has had some troubles with Ximena, but I would think, excluding a few characters, that most people would like Ximena. She is hardly the most 'differently motivated' character out there or possible.

          Number 4 there is something people should always consider with any character. This is not to say "Ignore what I did IC". I would think this is more of an "Oh no, I'm gonna get into a big mess over this aren't I? I don't think I can ooc deal with this (insert your reasons, i.e. RL time conflicts) How can we resolve this so it is a win-win situation, or at least not have bad ooc problems over this."

          Yes, we need characters that do what you are trying to do. 'Differently motivated', 'villians', 'conflict starters'. Whatever you want to call them. But as you said, people one the one side need to realize it is the character not the player. Then again, to play devils advocate, I have seen those 'differently motivated' characters' players get angry at how characters react to them. This is a two-edged blade. As such a character you have to expect there will be consequences you didn't expect. Granted, I'll guess you posted this because someone was using alts to defend their character and breaking the ooc/ic line. It is tough to play the villian, and IC the character will get lots of pain for what they do.

          Idly mused by Ra'

          Comment


          • #6
            Grey Areas

            I for one would just like to make it clear that although my character Ravelyn may be quite suspicious concerning some of Ximena's motivations, I thoroughly enjoy watching Ximena and her deceptive deception.
            - Carmen

            Comment


            • #7
              Metagaming in Ximena's case means making a bunch of alts to build up an "army" of detractors against her.

              Sad to say, Dariel, this is not the only time I have heard of people doing this in this game. Ximena is not the only person who has undergone this kind of attack. Therefore I won't dismiss her claims so quickly.

              I played the first real nasty character in the game (before me there was Retribution who was more mischievous than evil). I got alot of OOC flak for it. I was bitched out OOC for things I was doing IC. Sinistrelle was not a popular guy. And whenever I got an OOC complaint, I said "stay IC, don't talk to me OOC". It's also why I hid who I was, because people who knew I played Sin and Zero would hold it against Zero. The fact that people disliked me OOC proved that.

              Alot of people do have trouble distinguishing between IC and OOC. It's sad but true.

              I will agree with Dariel, though, that Ximena was wrong in appealing to people IC about her character. The following phrase was out of line in my opinion:

              I have worked hard to get Ximena into a decent position with some favor. Ximena is not all bad. She has a lot of good qualities. Also, Ximena is not Morte. She has never publically attested to being anything other than flirtatious chronicler who volunteers for work, who administrates the Western language and who mentors other chronicler aspirants.

              Ximena, do not post OOC about IC matters, meaning how people feel about your character. That is inappropriate. If people have an IC problem with your character, work IC to fix that if it bothers you. Do not start making OOC appeals to people that your character isn't a bad person.

              As a final note... I never ever ever got mad at how people treated Sin IC. I loved it. When Elea slapped Sin in the refectory... That was probably my favorite moment in all my time playing CM. If you play a villian, you should enjoy being antagonized.
              Lovecraft Country: Albert Zero
              Castle Marrach: Cody the Blade


              StoryCoder Azrael tells StoryHermit Death, "I *did* get told "you're amazing" by a girl when I was saucing my hotdog..."

              Comment


              • #8
                Gauge your audience

                Depending on what type of villainy Ximena is up to, she might be pushing deep psychological buttons in people.

                In the first encounters Gareth and Ximena had, she nearly drove him to suicide. For her part, Ximena projected herself as very angry about Gareth's claims of honor and his whole holier-than-thou preachiness.

                Pokes in the eye in both directions! Snarl! Snarl!

                It was bizarro-world for me. I had never heard of her before, and suddenly she was seemingly driving a wedge into Gareth's marriage, his friendships, and all-too-easily driving a stake into his life's most-lofty aspirations and reputation.

                Rack my brain. What plot and reason was there for this? It seemed obvious, albeit incorrect: Ximena Rose... Character assassin! First, she discredits Gareth, driving him from Avaria. Then she siezes control of the Chroniclers!

                For his part, Gareth was responding in his own way to defend himself and his loved ones. Even threats of character suicide are useful on occasion to rally emotional support. ("What? Why?!?")

                Emotionally manipulative? Heck yeah! "This is a social game." And all the gloves were off, so it seemed at first.

                I as player wondered (wrongly) if Ximena was an attack alt someone had created to come and get me and my ICly friends. If so, and she was going to ruin his reputation, he was going to fight back with all weapons he had at his disposal.

                I was keeping a level head as best I could, while of course, blowing everything out of proportion. I didn't understand at all what was going on.

                Both Ximena's and Gareth's ICly allies (and an SH) quickly interceded and arranged a truce.

                Since then, they haven't interacted much, except for a few quiet exchanges... they seem to be civily sussing each other out from a distance.

                I'm not a stone. Emotionally, I reacted immediately and strongly to Ximena -- based on the mindset Gareth developed faced with the situation and information he had.

                We were eventually able to get to a place where we could both roleplay in the same castle, in our own styles, separately. Sometimes that's also okay, if you can't seem to make it comfortable for both sides. (i.e., if the dramatic tension is not "dramatic," it's just "tension.")

                There is always a blend of emotions ICly and OOCly. That's part of the joy (and suffering) of roleplaying. Sometimes it gets too intense.

                Feedback loops are created by what you are projecting. If Ximena walks into the courtyard, and in 10 minutes creates a huge frackas, or secretly builds up tensions over days or weeks or months, the result is the same: anger and tension. Some of that comes home to roost. There's no 100% emotional teflon for any villain's player.

                There might be methods to ensure the other person, psychologically your acts are for a dramatic purpose -- that it's not just a random cruelty on your part.

                Without a compelling reason or understanding of why they are suffering, some 'injustice' trigger gets set off in people's mind. They don't understand why you are behaving the way you are, so it drops from an intellectual game into an instinctual survival habit.

                For some people, the reaction is less like coming to learn the mind of, and intellectually hating the villains in a movie. That requires understanding of their persona, ethics, and moral judgements.

                It's more like how rabid sports fans throw crap and hurl insults at the opposing team when they come out to play. It's not cause the opposing team is made up of Nazis. It's just cause they are NOT FROM HERE! They are NOT MY FRIENDS! It is personal to them. Very mammalian, instinctual, and fiery.

                Gauge your audience.

                The best thing to do is to find a way to create a safety valve in the emotions of the game. First, roleplay against mature players who can take the kind of abuse your intrigues might cause.

                If you are playing a real baddie (those who cause more destruction than laughter) attempt to get consent from your targets for the type and tone of deeds you're committing.

                For instance, some people might have problems with a violent villain. Others might have issues with sexual situations or political intrigue, or just plain rudeness. (e.g., Quilp has often had to let people know OOC "I play a real hard-ass. Get used to it, or avoid Quilp," etc.)

                If you need for this to remain secret -- don't want your target to pick you out as who's committing the intrigues -- it might be possible to get the consent through an SG or SP who will interlocute the request and response.

                With my villain, I've either asked during or after a scene a private OOC message "Is this type of roleplaying okay with you?" "Are you having fun?"

                I've been frankly shocked at what some of you twisted Marrachian people have considered "fun" plots and events you've let me get away with!

                And of course, though Atamasama rightly points out it is sometimes best to keep who-you-are secret to avoid coloring people's OOCly reactions to you, I've found it just as fun to let it slip who my villain is. People seem more comfortable when they realize he's not just a crazed Newly looking for attention. He's a crazed *Alt* looking for attention. ;-)

                Do others have any ideas on how to avoid sending the anger meter into the red zone and leaving it pegged there?

                -Pete.

                Disclaimer: These are my ideas. If you disagree with them, make up some of your own!
                ~ Gareth Beaumains ~

                ~ For Love! For Valour!
                ~ For Honour! For Glory!
                ~ Onwards to Adventure!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Clarifications

                  To Dariel,
                  When I stated "the way some people/characters have begun to treat me" I did mean me. I have been attacked verbally both on an IC level (which doesn't bother me - just ask Faer) and on an OOC level (which resulted in an assist to CE). So, to clarify, I, the player, have been attacked for my character's actions.

                  Also, I, the character, have been attacked verbally by alts I have never met. People who shouldn't even know who I am, walk up to me IC and say something nasty to me about things that might or might not be true about things that have never happened in public. When OOCly questioned on why they are acting like this, the answer has come back something like, "My alt So-and-So has written a letter about you to this character. So, they know everything."

                  I disagree is this. This is also why I made the comment of the public face that has been put forth. I know that some people have seen a different face but most of the time, it is in a very private area. I guess my request, which I wasn't clear enough on, was not to use OOC knowledge in an IC way.

                  Finally to Dariel. Once again, I apologize for not being clear enough. I meant to relay that it is not appropriate to /act/ on OOC anger in an inappropriate manner, such as creating/using an alt to 'get back at' the character who made you angry.

                  To Radorcha,
                  I fully expect people to react and to act against things that have happened with Ximena. That is what she is there for. I only have a problem when it breaks the fourth wall and leaks into the OOC arena where I, the player, am being attacked. Or alts are used in an unfair manner.

                  To Ravelyn,
                  You have handled your suspicions and actions in an extremely fun and admirable manner.

                  To Atama,
                  You are absolutely right on what I meant by metagaming. Also, the reason I mentioned the public face vs. the private face is the fact that I am dealing with people who use alts who have seen both faces and automatically make it so that their alt, who has never met Ximena, just "knows" the private face seen by another one of their alts who has no relationship to the second alt.
                  Ximena Rose
                  Scribe and Accountant of the Exchequer
                  ximena_rose@yahoo.com

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Ximena, I am really glad that you brought up this issue.

                    Recently, Rogra's life has been becoming increasingly complicated. With the on-set of her relationship with Darvius...the seemingly (although not intentional) dismissal of Faruq, suddenly she is in the central focus of a long-standing and very intense struggle between two powerful forces. She is making enemies quickly based on the fact of her group affliation.

                    But...to get to my point. I love playing this. It has been incredibly fun...albeit sometimes very emotional. However, I feel that people are starting to take things personal. OOCly. Not just ICly. I would hope that people could stand back and realize that I, as Rogra's player, am not trying to make anyone mad. That isn't even Rogra's intention. So, if people are having real difficulties with what is going on with Rogra...or how they feel that their characters are being treated by her. (or not being treated by her) Please! Feel free to write me. cm_rogra@hotmail.com

                    I am a friendly person...I promise I won't bite. We can talk about this...

                    Anne (Rogra)
                    Rogra Beaumains

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm with Kathy.... how long has Ximena been a bad guy? or girl to keep things PC.. ?And does this mean that Yaoi's leetter won't be getting delivered?"

                      -Kai Kai-
                      [Signed with a simple yet all too elegant and over-the-top Y]
                      .::Y::.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sigh...

                        Come on people. Go to the Castle and discuss this stuff. This is IC stuff.
                        Lovecraft Country: Albert Zero
                        Castle Marrach: Cody the Blade


                        StoryCoder Azrael tells StoryHermit Death, "I *did* get told "you're amazing" by a girl when I was saucing my hotdog..."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Atama
                          Sigh...

                          Come on people. Go to the Castle and discuss this stuff. This is IC stuff.

                          Actually I wish it was just IC stuff.

                          But I wouldn't have responded to this if that was the case.
                          In my situation it has gone to the OOCly realm.


                          Rogra Beaumains

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I meant Yaoi, Anne.
                            Lovecraft Country: Albert Zero
                            Castle Marrach: Cody the Blade


                            StoryCoder Azrael tells StoryHermit Death, "I *did* get told "you're amazing" by a girl when I was saucing my hotdog..."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I like quilp! He's a person you can trust to be mean and not hold it against you... I like the rude people.
                              Not sure about 'sex villians'
                              dont mind the violent villians
                              cant stand the political villians.

                              Ximena, Kyle likes you (heck, Kyle likes everyone) but you gota know you really make me nervous, your a political person and that makes you scary in a very very scary way. You, with margaret and Mistress Ermengarde (all of whom I have no problem with ic) are the scaryest people in the game. Followed by a lot of close seconds (hmmm mostly women... oh well, Ill chock that up to coincidence). Its not that I dont like you, but you kinda freak me out. (btw, how much does it show when we play? I like your RPing style after all, ranks high, with Gareth, Charmiam, Santlar, and Quilp)

                              Lets see... other vilians... Eydanya, one of the best. Ive heard good things about Richarde, but nobody can beat Eydanya. She is very ic scary but ooc benevolent, she makes you comftorable playing the game while scaring your character witless. Its like this cause you know she isnt hideing anything, she just radiats a good sence in an ooc way.

                              Master Quilp, scary ic, can never think of how to respond... get toung tied... but that's all my fault, not his. Its fun playing with him cause you know he's gona lay all his cards on the table, and so it doesnt matter that there always against you. He has been forgiving in the past of minor slights, I hope he is forgiveing of me kicking his dog so we can play more... but there are so many others who wana have a turn getting yelled at by him. Someone said he was toned down, I never noticed... I cant belive he could make someone cry ooc. I said he wouldnt hold it against you? I meant it like this: He wount say 'Ok, I see how it is' and then go tell his friends to be mean to you and spread rumors about you. Instead he will say 'You low life lazeabout! The castle will be a better place when you finaly get the directional sence to jump off a tower!' and then be rude to you when you meet.

                              Sinistrelle, to bad he's dead. I never noticed that he was a villian, I never got to play with him much... to bad, I wanted too. My friends all jumped for joy when they heard he was dead, I even got tackeled away from the computer so they could check my log on list when I mentioned 'Notice how Sinistrelle is never around when I am.' just so they could be sure I wasnt playing him. I dont see what was about him that freaked people out, he seemed like Starke in a way.

                              hmm what other examples? People really should take example from eydanya and Quilp... and take lessons about how to goof up and still 'maintain an air of wisdom and dignity' from Santlar (walking into a door while looking at herself in the mirror) and Ravelyn (acting ungraceful and author of the book 'how to find yourself on the wrong side of an argument and still come out on top')





                              Keep in touch, PM me with yahoo messneger. My ID is Fizgot. (and tell me who you are in CM so that I can know who Im talking to)

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