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  • #31
    So.. if I would have paid the points for it to Vanillia blonde, it would have been considered IG natural instead of having a stylist do it OOCly for me? Color me confused.

    That logic doesn't make ANY sense to me. I will continue to play that the color my character has is natural.

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    • #32
      I personally consider it to be cheating, plain and square. *shrugs*
      Proud member of: WWMHSBA

      "Why don't you all just go submit some plots where you can get pregnant, give birth to you own alt as an annoying child character, have it grow up to be a drama queen, and then you can use IC/OOC crossover to hide the goods you stole and escape from the dungeon that you're locked in due to a badly run rape plot?!" - Age

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Finna View Post
        It could actually have some bareing on the Main plot.
        I have a hard time following that hair color chargen choice has anything to do with the story when you can pay SP's and get an in-game non-chargen offered color anyway. It strikes me as an ooc limitation, not anything IC.
        "A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of."- Bacharach
        "Education has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading."- Trevelyan
        "There is nobody so irritating as somebody with less intelligence and more sense than we have."- Herold
        "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say."- McLuhan
        "There was never a great genius without a tincture of madness." - Aristotle
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        • #34
          Originally posted by Tristana View Post
          Sure, there should be all colors available on char gen. All natural colors. White blonde? sure. Vanilla is artificial, ICly mixed by one of the stylists. It wasnt in the game, it was something thought about and added later.
          Now this, to me, is nit picking quite a lot. Vanilla is just a descriptor for a color that could easily be a blonde variant occuring normally. Just because it wasn't originally in the game years ago, doesn't mean that it's not a color people could have naturally. Ebony is a 'new' color too, but that doesn't mean it's not a color people could have naturally.

          As far as this somehow making the stylists less useful? I don't see how that works really. Adding the things to the chargen just means people aren't bugging the stylists OOC to make a change on a new char, and that they aren't having to pay SP's for things they should be able to get anyway. Their big thing is 'styling' the hair, and more recently they can do all that nifty streaking and whatnot. Those are the two things that shouldn't be in the chargen - the special styles and the streaking / highlighting. People could have pretty much any color hair, and texture and length, but if they want anything special done to it they need to see someone IC to handle that.

          *shrug* Maybe I'm missing the point somewhere, but I don't see why it's a problem to add these things to the chargen.
          "A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of."- Bacharach
          "Education has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading."- Trevelyan
          "There is nobody so irritating as somebody with less intelligence and more sense than we have."- Herold
          "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say."- McLuhan
          "There was never a great genius without a tincture of madness." - Aristotle
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          • #35
            IMHO if there is an IC reason there are a weird set of colours and textures in character generation, then so be it. However, it does seem odd to me and doesn't in any way go off of the 11th link hairstylists guidelines.

            On a separate note, I find the entire "guidelines" for how you wear and colour your hair IC to be absurd. I always envisioned the stylists akin to the jewelers without a concrete set of guidelines differentiating between different shades of blonde and textures of all things. The whole setup seems weird to me and I seldom use stylists for anything beyond the actual styles for Court and such.

            Personally, I am totally for more colours and some limited extra textures (like straight, wavy, and curly) in the character generation. While vanilla blonde and some of the more "special" dyes that were "created IC" may occur naturally, I would exclude them anyway and those people can have blonde. I think a few more colours, like say blonde, red, grey, and white should be included. However, by the same token, I think that perhaps some of the fancy descriptors like vanilla blonde, hazel streaked, champagne blonde, etc should be kept for the stylists to dye. If you want "vanilla blonde" hair, what's wrong with just plain blonde? Personally, it sounds like you are trying to cheat the system and have cool hair without getting any link "because its natural" instead of just settling for blonde.

            I don't want to devalue the stylists but every single one of my alts searches for stylists to fix their awakening hair to no avail. To absolutely rely on stylists for all textures and dyes and to OOC'ly be able to bug them to give your new character "natural" hair not available in character generation is a little bit too much when they don't seem to hold open bells particularly often and you can't just send a scroll to them and get back your piece of jewelry for example. You physically have to see them and that's difficult to get done depending on your waking bells.

            As I said though, the entire system of "this blonde is marginally different than that blonde, you can't have this blonde because its link is too high, but you can have that blonde" just doesn't make sense to me. My character cannot tell the difference between ebony and black in clothes or hair, but I guess that's part of the textual environment, just like the "magic" forums. I just stay away from both myself.

            Anyway, long and short of it is that (in my opinion) we should have more general colours and textures in character generation and leave the super fancy made up IC dyes and the styles to the stylists. That way, since the whole process of getting your characters hair done is a lot more complicated than making clothes or jewelry (in the sense you have to be around at the same times and RP it all) and I personally never can find a stylist, we as a whole don't have to rely on them for every detail like "my character's hair should be red and curly, but that's not in character gen" but can rely on them for "there's an important ball coming up, let me get my hair put up".

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Rosalind View Post

              I don't want to devalue the stylists but every single one of my alts searches for stylists to fix their awakening hair to no avail. To absolutely rely on stylists for all textures and dyes and to OOC'ly be able to bug them to give your new character "natural" hair not available in character generation is a little bit too much when they don't seem to hold open bells particularly often and you can't just send a scroll to them and get back your piece of jewelry for example. You physically have to see them and that's difficult to get done depending on your waking bells.

              I personally never can find a stylist, we as a whole don't have to rely on them for every detail like "my character's hair should be red and curly, but that's not in character gen" but can rely on them for "there's an important ball coming up, let me get my hair put up".


              I'm sorry, WHAT?! This week alone there were 3 open bells - Rikka, Camellia, Euphelia. Finna holds bells all the time. A month ago Trist dismissed all those who werent active. You can ask Hazelline, Adalyn and Katherina - they are still oocly pissed at Trist for that decision.

              The stylists holds more open bells than the seamstresses, no offense, but its true. And just because you cant personally find a stylist, doesnt mean we sit and do nothing, so yes, you are devaluing them.

              I am so angry with this thread, all of those complaints and bitching. I bet you if there was a VP in charge of the stylists like there is Ermengarde for clothes, you would all keep it down. I am so tired of getting hits just because you wont work hard to get something you want.

              Some of you are being rude, and given Keri and me just finished working on like 28 new additions to the parser (colors and styles mixed) you are totally making me want to just delete the entire damn file.

              Utterly pissed,
              Tali
              Mistress Tristana

              Member of Her Majesty's Court
              Embinder/Hairstylist
              Aide for the Healers
              Patron of the Embinders
              Scribe of the Chambers

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Tristana View Post
                Feel free to opine.
                Originally posted by Tristana View Post
                I am so angry with this thread, all of those complaints and bitching. I bet you if there was a VP in charge of the stylists like there is Ermengarde for clothes, you would all keep it down. I am so tired of getting hits just because you wont work hard to get something you want.

                Some of you are being rude, and given Keri and me just finished working on like 28 new additions to the parser (colors and styles mixed) you are totally making me want to just delete the entire damn file.

                Utterly pissed,
                Tali
                Tali, I looked over the posts after you made your last one and I honestly don't think anyone is being rude or bitching and complaining. You started the thread off by asking for opinions, and that's much of what is being given here. We've had rude bitching threads on these forums - and this one is far far from that.

                Now I realize you are sounding quite defensive at this point, but at least for my part I didn't mean any of my posts as attacks (and I wager that most of the others weren't meant that way either). I would, in fact, say the exact same things to a VP. What this thread -is- doing is bringing up something that you (and others) may not have previously realized bothered some of the players. Perhaps it would be good to find out why it is that some are bothered by how things are currently.

                I don't think anyone is going out of their way to be harsh or rude to any of the stylists players, nor to devalue the work they have done, merely asking those involved to listen to the various opinions on the topic.

                ~Nicole
                "A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of."- Bacharach
                "Education has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading."- Trevelyan
                "There is nobody so irritating as somebody with less intelligence and more sense than we have."- Herold
                "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say."- McLuhan
                "There was never a great genius without a tincture of madness." - Aristotle
                Get Firefox -- My Blog

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Diedra View Post
                  I have a hard time following that hair color chargen choice has anything to do with the story when you can pay SP's and get an in-game non-chargen offered color anyway. It strikes me as an ooc limitation, not anything IC.
                  Yep. If the restriction can be lifted for OOC reasons, then it's got to be an OOC restriction. I doubt you can pay storypoints to get a character who is fertile and able to conceive/impregnate.

                  Originally posted by Tristana View Post
                  I am so angry with this thread, all of those complaints and bitching. I bet you if there was a VP in charge of the stylists like there is Ermengarde for clothes, you would all keep it down.
                  Uh. Right. Because nobody ever disrespected the seamstresses IC, and nobody sure as heck would question a VP OOC. Nobody (especially me) ever disagrees with staff.

                  Really, up yours.

                  You wanted a debate and opinions. People comply, and now you're whining because they don't all agree with you? Tough shit. "Oh, nobody appreciates my hard work!" Get in line. You're the only one complaining and bitching here.
                  Priam: You know what's a bad idea?
                  Kyramor: Not usually

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                  • #39
                    Let's face it. These guidelines are all OOC. The Seamstress guidelines in no way follow reality or logic for example. They just go by which colours come in at which level. Same with hair dyes for example.

                    That said, I can very much see the case being made for people having naturally curly or whatever hair, and having some more hair colours naturally. And that's the important point: Naturally. If people awake with straight brown hair, then whomever met them off the bat will not accept that their curly red hair is their 'natural state'. It'll always be considered the hairdo they got right after getting out of linens as opposed to their natural appearance. Might be a negligible issue for most people, but I can see how it can bother people who have a very clear idea of what their character should look like.
                    'If you're going through hell, keep going.'
                    -- Winston Churchill

                    POLITENESS, n.
                    The most acceptable hypocrisy.
                    -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary


                    'Hitler had a good 20 to 30 IQ points on Bush, so comparing Bush to Hitler would in many ways be an insult to Hitler.'

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Tristana View Post
                      You can ask Hazelline, Adalyn and Katherina - they are still oocly pissed at Trist for that decision.
                      That's totally unfair. I was never OOC pissed at you -- if anything, it was you who was OOC pissed at me because of Hazelline's IC reaction. Hazelline was annoyed IC. I didn't want to take it OOC but ended up having to because you were so upset OOC and I wanted to sort it out. Just because Lydia completely supports the need to boot out active members doesn't mean Hazelline should suddenly be happy about being one of those who is booted out.
                      I apologise, I don't speak pineapple.
                      -- little red dinosaur

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                      • #41
                        Ack. I didnt mean to write ooc. I meant they are mad IC. I just wrote that message really quick in the morning and I didnt notice. Notice I didnt write Lydia, I wrote Hazelline, my typo.

                        Anyhow - I understand people disagreeing with me, I understand being frustrated with chargen. I wrote I wanted opinions, but just as you dont agree with me, I can disagree with you. I also take it all personally, which is a mistake and I broke my own rule of not posting when angry.

                        I'm tired of arguing honestly, I have no energy for this. I am not home right now, but when I'll get home, I'll compose a list of stuff to add to chargen (mainly including all colors until Senior Apprentice skill level and some from higher - like Copper and Raven and also textures) - I will send it to plotters and to Geist and we will see how it goes. After that, there will be no ooc alterations and if there will, it will be considered cheating to me.

                        I, personally enjoy working hard IC to get benefits for my character, whether its a silk gown or a mahogany red hair. If you want to wake you char beautiful, do whatever. But chargen will be updated and I will press it hard and hopefully it will solve this issue.
                        Mistress Tristana

                        Member of Her Majesty's Court
                        Embinder/Hairstylist
                        Aide for the Healers
                        Patron of the Embinders
                        Scribe of the Chambers

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                        • #42
                          I feel that I should have made more of a noise about this when Sassy started being strict on the hairstylist guidelines (hindsight is 20/20), because it's now gotten even more extreme.

                          I think that hairstyling should be more of a fluid craft, like jewellery -- where it's more about favour than what link you are. That would in many ways give the hairstylists a lot more power and respect, and make them look less like hair Nazis. Hazelline had mahogany-red hair when it was technically "above her rank" because I'd designed that colour and Isadora favoured her as a student. What's really wrong with that?

                          The only reason we have so many options in the game at all is because it's a text based game. What is the real difference between shiny, glossy, lustrous or iridescent hair other than the fact that the hairstylists say you need to be of a certain rank before you can get a certain fancier word for the same thing? Hair styles, however, are far easier to mediate because they're much more visually different. You don't want Joe-Newlie running around with an intricate latticework of beads and ribbons in his hair, but maybe it doesn't really matter if he's got a certain variation of blonde or red or black, and slightly silkier hair than someone else.


                          A lot of people have a very particular idea in their head about what their character looks like. That's why we have char gen at all, to pick their eye colour and lip shape and height and so on and so forth. No, it wouldn't have fundamentally changed the way I'd played her if Elsie had been awoken with black hair, but I always had in my mind her as looking a certain way with a big mane of blonde hair and blue eyes and cherubic round cheeks and rosy skin -- and a personality that didn't match it. The physical image of her in my head doesn't work with black hair. Back when I made her, I could chose golden-blonde, so I did. Now, no such luck.


                          EDIT -- Tali, just saw your most recent post, and I think it's really good that you're being more objective about it. Believe me, the work you've done for the hairstylists has not gone unnoticed.
                          I apologise, I don't speak pineapple.
                          -- little red dinosaur

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Lyds View Post
                            because it's now gotten even more extreme.

                            I think that hairstyling should be more of a fluid craft, like jewellery -- where it's more about favour than what link you are. That would in many ways give the hairstylists a lot more power and respect, and make them look less like hair Nazis.
                            I dont know how you relate to things, but this in my opinion is an attack (and no, its not because I'm jewish and you said Nazi - I'm not that kind of person), because I run the guild and I make the rules so who can you refer to here, really?

                            But honestly, think what you may, I dont care. I know what I did, I know what I do and I will continue doing it because I love doing it. I have offered many times before this thread to help fix the chargen and got discarded, but since it brought such anger, I'm just going to insist it is done before the new additions will be installed.
                            Mistress Tristana

                            Member of Her Majesty's Court
                            Embinder/Hairstylist
                            Aide for the Healers
                            Patron of the Embinders
                            Scribe of the Chambers

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                            • #44
                              I'm just going to point out that people are assuming some things about what the process of necromancy is, and what Doc G does in raising a body.

                              Just sayin'...

                              StoryPlotter Geist
                              geist@marrach.skotos.net

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Geist View Post
                                I'm just going to point out that people are assuming some things about what the process of necromancy is, and what Doc G does in raising a body.

                                Just sayin'...
                                *chuckles* Allright Geist, ya know I find your little teaser comments amusing... but sometimes vague is a helpful nudge, and sometimes it's just vague. In this case, I can't actually tell what you are talking about for sure (unless you are just stating the obvious that we don't know exactly what he does). A bit more detail about what you're trying to say (or at least hinting in a clear direction) would be helpful if you're directly talking about the issue of adding more things to the chargen. At this point, following all logical paths, the hair options in chargen can only be considered an OOC issue. Quite honestly, if it is said that there is a 'plot' for why someone can have chestnut hair and not mahogany brown (unless they spend SP's to bypass the 'story')... I may just laugh myself into an early grave.

                                ~Nicole
                                "A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of."- Bacharach
                                "Education has produced a vast population able to read but unable to distinguish what is worth reading."- Trevelyan
                                "There is nobody so irritating as somebody with less intelligence and more sense than we have."- Herold
                                "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say."- McLuhan
                                "There was never a great genius without a tincture of madness." - Aristotle
                                Get Firefox -- My Blog

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