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  • Tristana
    started a topic About Hair & Chargen (small debate)

    About Hair & Chargen (small debate)

    Alright so I know chargen has horrible options for hair, both colors and textures and I know its frustrating.

    Stylists players were basically told its alright to help players cover for those lackings by oocly changing hair colors before the character actually emerges to normal hair colors that the chargen is missing.

    So I'm asking both stylists and players to be rational about the choice of color. No one wakes up with a highlighted cinnamon hair. Dont choose a color that is clearly artificial. And if you do, dont come complaining to me when my char doesnt believe you and ban you from the group's services (unless you stp it, and there is a way to tell).

    Just my 2 cents and how I view it.

    Feel free to opine.
    Tali

    P.S.
    Last year like 25 colors got lowered in links, especially for the 11th link and there was also guidelines for gifting, which helps you get higher colors than your own link. I guess nothing will keep some people satisfied, so yeah, both me and my character arent easy about it. Makes me wonder if I should finish the current additions, if no one respects it anyway.

  • Diedra
    replied
    Originally posted by Lyds View Post
    Seeing so many regular PCs with hair longer than waist/hip-length seems a bit ridiculous to me (even though I'm guilty of it too now that I have the option) -- I mean, do any of you have any idea how hard it would be to keep hair that long maintained well?! I had hair almost down to my rear end until I was about 16, and let me tell you, it's a real pain sometimes. I don't think anyone has hair that long that stays thick and vibrant. Most hair that long is uncontrollably straight just because of the sheer weight of it, and it tends to be weak. Zhane's beyond floor length hair just baffled me -- did that mean it was trailing on the ground for people to step on?
    *snicker* Until a couple of months ago -I- had hair past my ass too. Depends on the hair I suppose, my curly hair turned into long waves from the weight, but still took to a curl quite lovely if I wanted it too. More high maintenance, sure, takes a lot longer to brush. Floor length, perhaps is a bit over the top, but then, that is the definition of Zhane. Kind of off topic, but ah well.

    Now as far as the -reason- I think the lengths should be allowed, well, same argument I suppose as before about how things have been previously allowed regardless of anything IC. Case in point, I had Di's hair done to hip-length a long while back and that was done OOC by a stylist at the recommendation of a staffer.

    ~Nicole

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  • Lyds
    replied
    Originally posted by Diedra View Post
    I think it would be nice to have all the lengths available as well, but eh.

    ~Nicole
    Oh, I don't. I guess I grew up in the CM where the only people with hair past their waist were the sorcerors, and I saw that as a massive magic perk when Kittyn got knee-length hair. Seeing so many regular PCs with hair longer than waist/hip-length seems a bit ridiculous to me (even though I'm guilty of it too now that I have the option) -- I mean, do any of you have any idea how hard it would be to keep hair that long maintained well?! I had hair almost down to my rear end until I was about 16, and let me tell you, it's a real pain sometimes. I don't think anyone has hair that long that stays thick and vibrant. Most hair that long is uncontrollably straight just because of the sheer weight of it, and it tends to be weak. Zhane's beyond floor length hair just baffled me -- did that mean it was trailing on the ground for people to step on?

    Although, that said, it is a magic Castle. I just like that it was reduced to the sorcerors, but the decision to change that was obviously made by a plotter who approved hip-length, thigh-length, ankle length (?).

    I think the char gen suggestions are great, Tali (although burnished means really, really shiny, so maybe take that out as well?). Particularly wispy finally being recognised for what it is -- not attractive! I know it's really high on the hairstylist skill list, but maybe ask a plotter to move it to senior apprentice or something? I know I personally spend a lot of money on RL products to stop my hair being frizzy/wispy .

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  • Diedra
    replied
    Originally posted by Tristana View Post
    I think you should compare hair color to eye color. Why do you spend stps about lumious eyes or lavender eyes? Lets just add all those colors to the chargen - and I'm being extreme here, because some said all colors should be on the chargen.

    So for me, hair is like eyes, basic colors should be on the chargen, but while you cant change your eyes ICly, you can change your hair if you prove yourself and so it should encourage you even less to try gaining nicer hair color in non-kosher ways, so to speak.
    Heheh, I actually agree with having all eye colors people could think of being put in there also, but since we don't have a method IC to change them later (as with stylists), if someone could come up with a list of eye colors I'd probably argue 10 times as hard for them being added simply because the only way later to change it is with sp's.
    Originally posted by Tristana View Post
    COLORS:

    Coal-black, mouse-brown, rust-colored, straw-colored, black, dark-brown, fawn, flaxen, sandy, dusty-grey, sable, light-brown, chestnut, ash-blonde, dusky-blonde, roan, tawny, red, blonde, grey, blue-black, ginger, raven, copper, salt and pepper, auburn, strawberry blonde, white, white-blonde and maybe silver too.

    I think those are -alot- of choices.

    Textures :

    Coarse, snarled, greasy, clean, feral, dull, frizzy, delicate, fluffy, kinky, stringy, unruly, wiry, bristly, thick, ample, burnished, bushy, flowing,wavy, abundant, straight, curly, fine, wispy, feathery.

    I intentionally left all the shiny and bouncy stuff out, because the chars were dead afterall.
    If they can't all be added, then I think those are good options for now because people could have any of the basic colors (red, black, the browns (light/dark), blonde, gray, silver, and white). I think it would be nice to have all the lengths available as well, but eh.

    ~Nicole

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  • Tristana
    replied
    Alright.

    I took some time off and read some of the posts over and over again.
    My initial intention of this thread, is as stated, to fix chargen and avoid crossover and it just turned a blaming finger toward the stylists, which is a group I lead and norture in game and outside the IC sphere, and I got angry and frustrated and phrased myself in a way that might have annoyed others.

    When you walk down the street, you probably wont figure out if someone's hair is dark red, mahogany red or Hazelnuts with cherry cream red. True.

    However, the game is text-based. When we add things to the parser our logic goes by "Fancy Word ~> Higher Link". I wont put dull black as 6th link, just as I wont put amazing blonde at 11th, because which would you want more? which do you think will be more desirable yet harder to achieve?

    If you walk down the street and someone has green eyes, can you tell if its exotic green, sea green, puke green or forest green? I think you should compare hair color to eye color. Why do you spend stps about lumious eyes or lavender eyes? Lets just add all those colors to the chargen - and I'm being extreme here, because some said all colors should be on the chargen.

    So for me, hair is like eyes, basic colors should be on the chargen, but while you cant change your eyes ICly, you can change your hair if you prove yourself and so it should encourage you even less to try gaining nicer hair color in non-kosher ways, so to speak.

    Try thinking of it this way.

    ----------------------------

    As for the guidelines:

    There are formal guidelines, yes. There are also favor guidelines inside the stylists. A stylist can decide she will favor someone and give them nicer hair - its inside knowledge and I see it happen. We have a little chart we fill in order to avoid someone accusing another for breaking guidelines when he was actually gifted the style. When I took the group into my hands I felt it is a must to set some rules in order to stablize the mess I was left with and it was right, in my opinion, because I see it works inside the group's hierarchy.

    __________________________

    As For Stylists' Availbility and Those who were dismissed:

    First, I didnt mean to present you as "Got Lazy and yet complain". What I meant was they were dismissed because they were inactive, and no matter how pleasant they were about it, and Adalyn was in fact very pleasant, I am sure they werent entirely happy - and its understandable.

    Due to people saying they cant find stylists, I had a project of dismissing inactive ones and raising new ones. There are at least 5 stylists in training now and while there are at least 3 open bells a week, I hope there will be more in the future.

    __________________________

    As for Fixing Chargen:

    If I will get a green light that it isnt an IC plot or IC reason, I will make amends to the chargen, I'm thinking along these lines (nothing is sure):

    COLORS:

    Coal-black, mouse-brown, rust-colored, straw-colored, black, dark-brown, fawn, flaxen, sandy, dusty-grey, sable, light-brown, chestnut, ash-blonde, dusky-blonde, roan, tawny, red, blonde, grey, blue-black, ginger, raven, copper, salt and pepper, auburn, strawberry blonde, white, white-blonde and maybe silver too.

    I think those are -alot- of choices.

    Textures :

    Coarse, snarled, greasy, clean, feral, dull, frizzy, delicate, fluffy, kinky, stringy, unruly, wiry, bristly, thick, ample, burnished, bushy, flowing,wavy, abundant, straight, curly, fine, wispy, feathery.

    I intentionally left all the shiny and bouncy stuff out, because the chars were dead afterall.

    Again, remember, this is merely a first draft, initial suggestion.

    But as I said, if they accept my offer, and there will still be oocly alterations, I will assist freely about crossover and cheating, because after all that, that's cheating.

    -----------
    As For New Additions :

    1. once I find a coder or a Geist
    2. after we solve this problem and reach an agreement.


    _____________________
    In conclusion:

    I opened this discussion because as I said I know chargen is bitchy for choices, I know ooc alterations are going on in the game. All I asked was to be reasonable with the choices when altering someone's hair oocly.

    I hope this will explain best all I had in mind, I hope the spirits will calm, it turned into a mess without my intention. Lets hope it will all be solved soon.

    Have a pleasant afternoon,
    Tali

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  • Lyds
    replied
    I wasn't talking about char gen, I was talking more about instances of a hairstylist saying "you there, you're not allowed that hair colour!" like the seamstresses sometimes do.

    I'm sorry I used the word Nazi, it was an extremely poor and thoughtless choice of word. I just meant that the hairstylists deserve repect and praise for what they do, but if they're constantly having to hassle people for having inappropriate hairdos then they're unlikely to be remembered as the kind, generous folk they are. And in truth I was pointing out that realistically it's far more difficult IC to differentiate between different haircolour/textures than it is between different fabrics (the dyes can be very similar). And I still agree with Rosalind's player and think it would be nice if the hairstylists were run on a favour basis rather than a guidline basis (as it used to be). That way you completely control who gets what. You can still have a formal set of guidelines for the hairstylists themselves, but they use them at their discretion. So, again, no jewelled crown braids for eleventh linkers, but sometimes those eleventh linkers who have been around for years can have silky hair.

    Tali, I am not attacking you, I respect what you've done with the hairstylists -- however, you say you love what you do and then at the same time seem to be getting extremely angry and upset about it. I'm just making a suggestion which might ease some of the frustration by making it all more relaxed in general.

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  • Peraine
    replied
    Maybe I'm just weird, but I think there should be... less choices at chargen for hair -color-. (Though curly should be something added, unless there's some overwhelming reasons people with curly hair aren't being raised). I could see white, grey, light blonde, blonde, dark blonde, light red, red, dark red, light brown, brown, dark brown, black and salt-and-pepper (and possibly roan). You can switch out the light/med/darks for appropriate, generic hair colors if needed. I just think that if it's more generic, you can have someone start with the generic color, and then as the character gets to a point that they can get the dye they want (or the favor to get it) then they can get a 'dyed' or 'embellished' color. I guess to me, a light-blonde would be a good stand in, for say, Vanilla, whereis vanilla is more specific of a hue. Maybe with different highlights and low-lights. I mean, I dont' know where you get your hair dyed, but I've dyed my hair at home, gone to cheap places, good salons, bad salons and very, very expensive salons, and in each one, there's a definite difference in even the 'same' haircolors. Maybe this is the difference between white blonde and vanilla blonde as well.

    My two cents, at any rate.

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  • Adalyn
    replied
    A month ago Trist dismissed all those who werent active. You can ask Hazelline, Adalyn and Katherina - they are still ICly pissed at Trist for that decision.
    Wait a minute, Adalyn is pissed? Never, not one bit! I'm not trying to start a fight, but that makes it sound like the three are mad about being fired for laziness, and at least as I see it that's not true at all. Adalyn was not/ is not mad at Tristana or about leaving the Stylists.

    That said, I think that there should be more choices in the CharGen. But I also think that no characters should get their hair styled OOC. Whether there's an IC reason for such little choices in the CharGen or just something that's been overlooked, it can be played out IC. You should never do something OOCly in game that can be done ICly. And I don't think hair is really that big of a deal. When you first meet somebody in real life, are you going to think to yourself is their hair 'black' or 'jet-black' or 'midnight'?

    ~Krysti's 2 cents

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  • Fez
    replied
    Originally posted by Priam View Post
    So you eliminate 1. Now you're still left with the fact that the apparent restriction is lifted for a standard OOC reason (storypoints).
    Apparently ninety some % of all the folk he raises at any given time might share certain characteristics for some reason. The small % that fall outside the standard, whether in hair color or past life memories or skills, have a process.. and that is StP.

    Once your char comes out of chargen, you can't change their starting skills, nor apparently IC their starting hair.

    I can't believe the length of this thread as a total OOC

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  • Priam
    replied
    Originally posted by Geist View Post
    Why are you assuming that the process before your first awakening is the same as the process afterward?
    So you eliminate 1. Now you're still left with the fact that the apparent restriction is lifted for a standard OOC reason (storypoints).

    Leave a comment:


  • Lucus
    replied
    But if we're going to be serious, I don't like people dyeing hair OOCly. People compare it to getting it approved by a StoryPlotter (via StoryPoints) only without having to spend the stps. The major difference is... it's not. The Plotters set a specific list of colours people can awaken with. Lucus got his hair through a plot I submitted and had approved by a Plotter. If you want to have something different than what Getheaht normally awakens you with, you need a reason, and you need that reason to be OK'd by a Plotter.

    Though I fully agree that the selection you're given with Char Gen is a pretty poor selection compared to what a person could naturally get in real life.

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  • Lucus
    replied
    I <3 Lost 4 life (it doesn't beat 24 though). >_>

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  • Geist
    replied
    Originally posted by Priam View Post
    It can be done by the Necromancer, if 1) you had it before you died in-game (you might have been burnt dead and hairless and you'd still get it back), or 2) you pay storypoints. So he can obviously do all the styles we can imagine, provided we meet the OOC qualifications.
    Why are you assuming that the process before your first awakening is the same as the process afterward?
    Originally posted by Priam View Post
    It's a time-honored GMing technique, but only really works in closed environments (like tabletop). In an open environment, all the answers should, ideally, already be out there for players to discover on their own.

    (It also doesn't work for TV shows; see Lost.)
    ::nods:: That show is clearly critically despised and unpopular. Yea, and the 2nd season box set is currently #1 at Amazon.com. Pretty shabby.

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  • Priam
    replied
    Originally posted by Namida View Post
    I understand it as eg. curly hair can't be done by the Necromancer, or some of the other options that's not in the chargen. Either due to weather, season, too much whiskey or what not
    It can be done by the Necromancer, if 1) you had it before you died in-game (you might have been burnt dead and hairless and you'd still get it back), or 2) you pay storypoints. So he can obviously do all the styles we can imagine, provided we meet the OOC qualifications.

    Originally posted by Euphelia View Post
    Statements like this irk me. It doesn't -help- the conversation, does it? It sounds like a "I don't know the answer but since I'm staff, I'll make it up as I go along and toss out vague comments to cover my butt."
    It's a time-honored GMing technique, but only really works in closed environments (like tabletop). In an open environment, all the answers should, ideally, already be out there for players to discover on their own.

    (It also doesn't work for TV shows; see Lost.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Namida
    replied
    What's the big thing about hair anyway? You can't get black lips, tight arse or sexy eyebrows in chargen, but noone complains that these options aren't here. You can't pick tattoos in chargen either, but noone complains. You can't pick a fingernail length, a toe length or how sharp your teeth are.

    It's part of a story that we contact others to get things done, so why not for hair also? It's not like our haircolour or texture really defines how we are as people inside. And thinking of it, why not just create a char who's convinced they're blonde and wonder how the heck their hair all the sudden became mouse-brown.

    Makes for story to me.

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