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A rant by a disappointed player (warning: rambling content inside)

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  • A rant by a disappointed player (warning: rambling content inside)

    /rant ON

    Today was my first run in with someone who proceeded to tell me how to roleplay, needless to say it pissed me off.

    I roleplay someone who isnt the standard carebear goodie two shoes. Seriously though, seems like everyone in Castle Marrach is a brown noser and conformist. Don't you people get bored with your thees and thous and bows and curtsies? I for one found it god awful boring, and so I remade a character who was more mischievously inclined. I'm willing to bet that many of you have secretly enjoyed the recent activities of mischief that have been going around despite not stating so outright.

    "Queen is great this, queen is great that"
    "Don't do this, its rude, dont sit there, its the pegasus' hay, Im gunna call the guards."

    Blah blah blah!

    I roleplay someone up to no good, and needless to say, this guy berated me in OOC and went so far as to resort to name calling and requested that I leave this game and find another.

    I am not naming him out of courtesy (he/they know who they are), because my rude obnoxious and scheming IC is NOT representative of me OOC. Of course, "Mr. Roleplay Advice" couldn't discern this which leads me to question HIS familiarity with roleplaying. Sorry pal, but if you can't seperate IC from OOC, its you who needs to find a new game.

    Sorry but I plan on paying for this account because I enjoy this game greatly and take it seriously, and no one is going to tell me how to roleplay. I understand the difference between being a GRIEFER (someone who exists solely to make your game-life a nightmare) and just a bad guy. Believe me, I am not here to cause anyone grief, but I am here to play on MY terms.

    Some people have also complimented me on my roleplay, including a StoryGuide, so I think I am doing ok personally.

    Forgive me for NOT being the run of the mill Marrachian who bows at the sight of every freaking person. I'd much rather not give respect unless I feel someone deserves it. I'd much rather belch out loud and snore and sleep during plays etc (without being absolutely disruptive, like spamming) and act REAL then act like a zombie. What is it with you Marrachians, do your bodily functions not work? Woe be the person WHO DARES to belch in the presence of others!

    I also find it APPALLING that in a serious roleplay game, people can not accept "shady" characters such as my IC, and will resort to having me thrown into a dungeon (and thus ruining my gameplay) because I "didn't bow to High Ranking official 01" or commented "that the Queen is a tyrant and that we are all prisoners."

    I am quite a nice and decent person IRL (in my opinion of course), and I enjoy roleplaying as a release from daily stresses and also a way to exercise my creativity. My non-apologies for not conforming to how YOU want me to roleplay.

    /rant OFF

  • #2
    We actually have quite a few players who are not that upright and courteous I believe. But I think the reason you were so objected to is because there has been someone, or lots of someones, playing those disposable characters lately (if I may borrow the term).. who don't even seem to know what roleplay is. Some just grab people and kiss them (without any pretense of roleplay, just acting like twelve year olds).. some just want to say outrageous things and toss out threats for no reason whatsoever, and they can't keep ooc and ic seperate at all. I think your character was maybe too noticeable, only in that other players must have assumed you were *that* type of newly.

    But I do hope no one argues with this post of yours.. people are so easily offended these days, and I don't think you meant anything bad .. but I just know someone will say something rude to you .. sigh..

    Comment


    • #3
      Conflict starters always get that crap pal. Take it from someone who knows.

      Duren is rude, blunt and rather random. He'll insult people, smack them around, or wave swords at them if he feels like it.

      Have I been assaulted for this OOCly? Yes. Frequently. As a result, I give new people that I start going in on, an OOC disclaimer, that I really DON'T hate them, it's just that Duren isn't always a very nice person. (Thanks to whichever SP convinced me to do that, I think it's helped avoid a lot of fights)

      Conflict starters get burned out really fast thanks to all the OOC and IC crap they have to take almost all the time.

      You know what the game would be without people like us? You really want to know? Carebears 90210.

      So jeez, be nice to the conflict starters, at least OOC. We're people too you know, and most of us really ARE nice people.


      Jared

      Comment


      • #4
        Ah, a rant. Well, that's usually my province, so I guess I'll have to answer.

        No, I don't think anybody has a right to tell another how to roleplay, as long as there are no obviously grievous error in the other's play, most notably confusion between OOC and IC issues.

        So much for that part. Now, the point I stumble over is this:

        Seriously though, seems like everyone in Castle Marrach is a brown noser and conformist. Don't you people get bored with your thees and thous and bows and curtsies?
        No, I don't think anybody has a right to tell another how to roleplay, as long as there are no obviously grievous error in the other's play, most notably confusion between OOC and IC issues.

        That's not an echo you're hearing.

        Personally, I play my character, with his flaws and strengths. He's smart, a smooth talker and seems to be charismatic for a reason I haven't yet deducted. Also, he's arrogant, uncaring and passive. But when he bows to authority and works within a rigid hierarchy, that has its reasons. For one, he abhors disorder and yields to hierarchy rather than anarchy. Besides, he wouldn't be alive if not for the Queen's generosity. She has every damn right to be revered.

        Certainly, you can call him a brown-noser and conformist if you like, I don't care. What I do care about however is that you evoke the impression that you consider this a lesser form of roleplaying, as is obvious in your choice of words. What one calls a conformist, another calls a law-abiding citizen, you know?

        So, no, I don't think anybody has a right to tell another how to roleplay, as long as there are no obviously grievous error in the other's play, most notably confusion between OOC and IC issues.

        I trust you can take a hint. My next one would be to suggest talking to an SG if someone called you names because of the way you play your character. That's not acceptable at all. However, I gather from your text that you did as much, so I'll leave it at that.


        Have a nice day.
        'If you're going through hell, keep going.'
        -- Winston Churchill

        POLITENESS, n.
        The most acceptable hypocrisy.
        -- Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary


        'Hitler had a good 20 to 30 IQ points on Bush, so comparing Bush to Hitler would in many ways be an insult to Hitler.'

        Comment


        • #5
          Bad guys are accepted here most certainly, hell, their even given rank sometimes just look at Britta.

          Although if you thuroughly disrespect someof the very high ranking persons, the the royal court themselves, you will be thrown in jail, thus is the Queens Capitulary , the same will happen if you publicly denounce the queen as a tyrant or such, these are IC rules and laws.

          As to whomever thought to force their way of play upon you, they may have thought that you were an honest newly awakened, and tried to help by teaching you. Though in my opinion from whazt was said, they should've thought before they spoke.

          To anyone aiding a newly... I suggest a few things, they may halp you, they may not, but it's what I do:

          *Ask the apparant newly what they have problems with IC, if they claim that they hate the queen and wish her dead so they can warm the drawbridge loose with her blood, gasp, tehn explain that if they say that to a watchman or yeowoman they will be beheaded, a permanant death for the character.
          *If you think they have OOC problems, ask them if they have OOC problems and try and explain ways to ompensate. Don't tell someone they have to play like you, because every character is different, and just like in RL, if everyone was truly the same, life would be boring beyond extent.

          Also, take heart, not all care bears are really care bears, but wolves in sheep's clothing.
          To conquer without risk, is to succeed without glory

          Comment


          • #6
            Now that I have seen you IC .. my post above still stands but I think that the little incident I witnessed could have been handled better. The game is not real..sometimes we have to compromise.

            I believe most definetly that when a player is afk, their character is daydreaming or something.. it has to be that way, the character can't respond on their own and quite litterally their mind is somewhere else. Daydreaming.
            But if they were not afk for long it makes sense that they may not be so out of it that they don't notice you. They might not see that you stole something, but they might remember your face ..
            And when ooc and ic get confused the best you can do is deal with ic as much as you can. Compromise.. the fact is you DID do something and your character can't go completely blameless.. if you stole a thing ic, when you return it it must also be considered ic.. if you wish to argue something oocly do it camly .. but be imaginative about ic and lenient toward other characters who's believes about the game may be different..

            I wish you would just listen to my resolution for what happened.. Say that Janwin walked in and remembered seeing your face, and asked you about the cape.. and you eventually admitted to taking it.. then gave it back .. Janwin forgave you because they were daydreaming and they might get in trouble too..
            Now Ferguson overheard and wanted to tell the watch .. but if Janwin doesn't charge you with anything, and based on the fact that your character is new and confused, you probably won't get that harsh a punishment..

            Comment


            • #7
              'Don't do this, its rude, dont sit there, its the pegasus' hay, Im gunna call the guards.'
              First off, my character does not trust your character because he is suspicious that your character stole the cape. Second, my character was put in-charge of watching the pegasus. So he was ordering your character, not ordering you as a player.

              I am not the player who told you to find another game, so do not include that quote in this rant, please. I never ordered you on how to role play... I did ask you how your second character knew about your first character... that was it... And you gave me a valid answer.



              On another note:

              Your character must take responsibility for his own actions. If he breaks a law ICly, he must pay the price ICly. Don't fuss about it OOCly.

              Comment


              • #8
                Villainousness has long been an ongoing topic of discussion in these forums, and little of worth can I add to what's already been said, save to point out some subtle, psychological nuances which I as a player have noted. Before doing so however, I would advise you to take a gander at the following threads though, as they will be of some enlightenment to you:

                To Conflict or not to conflict

                I'm Not an Evil Woman..I just Play One on Marrach

                On the Subject of Villians


                So You Want to be Evil...

                Corvis' Workshop for Villians


                You'll duly note that yours is by no means any new complaint. I'll add that the castle has a very specific and very closely knit social hierarchy. If you arrive as a newly awakened character and immediately from the get-go start in with rude, overbearing or malicious behaviour, then know that it is *never* seen as villainousness, but simply as that phenomenon known as "Newlius Awakenoia", also referred to as 'PASD' (Post-Awakening Stress Disorder). PASD can be defined as that period of time in which a character who has just awakened acts absolutely daft and sports any of a number of symptoms including: Biting, hitting, punching or verbally accosting others; kissing, licking or pervasively attempting to fondle seras; and generally being disruptive by drawing attention to themselves negatively in whatever manner whether spewing treasonous remarks about the queen or running naked through the halls. We all have our own theories (personally I think it's something between the potions Getheatlh uses and the amalgam of our obviously interchaged body parts) but regardless, you can trust me that this phenomenon is *far* more common than you would think, and I for one find it even more unbearable than a castle full of carebears. Do note then that when people RP their reactions as such, it is not contempt for mischieveous characters at all--its more having dealt with the same, predictable behaviour from the Newly Awakened time and time again. Thinks you, 'Then I'm trapped eternally in the land of Carebears on Ice?'. Heh. Not even.

                If your goal is only to come in right off the top and make trouble, certainly *that* won't work. Outright flauting of the laws will get you the dungeon at best, and contempt at the least. This will be from existing villains as well as the good guys (And all who fall somewhere in between). CM, like any other social structure you fall into in life carries with it a proving off period in which you have to establish your presence while maintaining some level of propriety. Read the threads, you'll see what I mean. But truly, if you are creating a character who is villianous, and you invest the necessary time involved to refine that and fall within the exisiting structure, you will be adding a layer to the structure that is desperately needed and will be wonderful to RP against as well as incorporate into plots.

                IMO, the only way to really ever advance as a character while maintaining a role that is less than honorable is to penetrate the hierarchy from within. That means yes, conformity to some point, but really--are not *all* RL villains forced to capitulate as such?
                If you don't fit seamlessly within society--any society--you get put away. Look at any truly notable RL villain, whether criminal, murderer, rapist or what have you. Law-abiding, seemingly oh-so-normal in their surface lives, yes? Beneath? Serpents and shadows.

                And even then, as you'll note by the above threads (which you really should be perusing now instead of reading this) there are always conflicts. But that's the nature of the thing-in-itself, is it not?

                Lastly, regarding OOC actions and namecalling; obviously I don't agree with it. Ximena's thread deals with it specifically. There is no pat answer for it, just realize that many of us are aptly adept at seperating the two (OOC from IC), and as you become ever addicted, you'll find which players you can respect, and which you'd rather never RP with again.

                I am quite a nice and decent person IRL (in my opinion of course), and I enjoy roleplaying as a release from daily stresses and also a way to exercise my creativity. My non-apologies for not conforming to how YOU want me to roleplay.
                Of course you are. And you seem bright enough as well. Now, do go read those threads.

                The yoke or the throne?

                Comment


                • #9
                  My own added rant.



                  This is a little off-topic, but it something that is *really* bothering me....

                  Velkyn was arrested as the character that was put into the dungeon because of the incident with Charmiam, Dafyd and the pegasus. He was arrested yesterday, and was suppose to be spoken to by Captain Alrik, not set for release.

                  And now today, I see this IC post by Velkyne (note the added 'e')!!! And this character is free, running around the castle, and posting on the in-character boards about the incident with Charmiam and the Guards. NO! This, in my opinion is really poor role-playing. This player should not be making going back out and creating a new character and trying to write them off as the same person. Velkyn is in the dungeon.

                  Normally I would try to RP this all IC, but Rogra doesn't know what this person looks like.

                  Maybe I'm the only one who has a problem with this..., but I thought I'd put my two cents in.

                  Anne
                  Rogra Beaumains

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The upper post I editted because I would like to rephrase my thing about the "shady" characters.

                    I rather like "shady" figures, in an OOC sense. My character does not, however.

                    The players of Twulf, Skout, Victor, Morte, etc. (though, I only saw the end of Morte... *sigh* wish I could have seen more) I, as player, respect greatly.

                    My character does not respect their characters, however. Do you want my character who tries to be "goodly" (in his mind) respect those he sees as "badly"? *shake head*

                    ---------------------------------------------------

                    One word, though.

                    The first character, which got arrested, is virtually the same as your second character (just an added e to the name). Although I do not treat them as the same person, you basically have created two different entities with the same basis and ideals. One right after the next.

                    Learn from past mistakes on your previous characters, perhaps. Have your character be subtle about his hatred for the Queen. Do not go into the courtyard and yell "DEATH TO THE QUEEN!" That basically results in your character's being arrested for treason and beheaded.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In spite of my marrach character being a rigid rule of law type chickie, most of the other characters I have ever played in ten years of roleplaying were, starting in high school, very dubious characters. Thieves, madams, assassins. They're fun to play.

                      But.

                      You must realize that successful villains don't stand out as such. In a rigid social structure like Marrach, it is your character's survival that counts first, and blatant nonconformity means that you're in for a quick trip to the dungeon.

                      I assume from your post name you're from EQ. As a former player there (druid WE on Terris-Thule, magician GN, druid WE and cleric HE on Xev) let me tell you first hand: This is so far removed from the roleplay in EQ they may as well not call it by the same word. Here, if you insult the authorities the barbarian, dark elf and high elf that make up your group are not going to ignore it and continue camping the p4@7 l3\/\/7. I don't know anything about your playstyle, because Medb hasn't encountered your character, but that is what I saw in the game, which is one of the biggest reasons I left: It was Doom with pretty settings. And that's after about a hundred levels, total across my four characters.

                      I would advise you sit and listen to other people play the game for a few days, listen to the non conformist characters especially, although you'll find that there are dark waters swirling in every character you meet.

                      Dorinda
                      Would you believe that we were method roleplayers roleplaying power-crazed adolescents roleplaying cyborgs?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for all the replies.

                        I *am* taking all the posts to heart and will do my best to learn the lay of the land so to speak.

                        Your advice is much appreciated.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: My own added rant.

                          Originally posted by Rogra
                          [snip]And now today, I see this IC post by Velkyne (note the added 'e')!!! And this character is free, running around the castle, and posting on the in-character boards about the incident with Charmiam and the Guards. NO! This, in my opinion is really poor role-playing. This player should not be making going back out and creating a new character and trying to write them off as the same person. Velkyn is in the dungeon.
                          From what I heard last night, this is Velkyn's twin, who told him all about what happened, before he ended up in the dungeon.
                          /opinion withheld
                          ------------------

                          EQ: I think the question is, is your character a villian, or a troublemaker, or a conflict-maker?

                          Villains have been covered very well in the posts above indicated. The reason you might think there are nothing but carebears in the castle, is because every smart villain realized how much more they could achieve, by acting outside the public eye (And every stupid villain is dead or in the dungeon). The longer you're here, the more you might get to wondering if the forces of good are outnumbered.

                          Troublemakers rock the boat and get slammed down... almost without exception. It's a line drawn IC in the sand, and it's not bad RPing that characters jump on those who cross it. It's actually a no-brainer. Even villains have little use for troublemakers, except as stoodges and fall-guys.

                          Conflict-makers, IMO, have the hardest job, since they can hit nerves OOC. Far from all of the conflict-makers are 'evil'. Some are, because they enjoy 'watching someone betray everything they believe in, and still not be able to help themselves' (to paraphrase Dangerous Liaisons), but some just disagree, to their core, with established and accepted axioms. Some of the greatest conflict-makers are deeply virtuous types who happen to feel VERY strongly.



                          We could probably argue all day whether these categories are mutually exclusive... but that would take away from my point.

                          If you're rethinking your derision, give the structure another look. If I can help you achieve your aims in the game, send me a PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've played EQ too and gave it up in favor of Marrach because the quality of the average RPer here is several notches above what I typically saw in Everquest. No one can lead me to an inconvient and annoying death through their stupidity here! If my char dies here it's due to my very own stupidity!
                            I appreciate your (Velkyne) RPing today as an accused person trying to get out of being arrested. You realize that if we let you off that would've just been wrong IC since as Martel's player points out you can be arrested for merely insulting the First Acolyte and certainly as a perceived threat to Her Majesty.
                            We do need the 'criminal' element or why would the Watch and the Royal Guard exist? We need conflict too or it would be an endless tea party (although it does seem more like Alice in Wonderlands tea with the Mad Hatter some days). What we don't need and have come to dread is the annoying people that create account after account in order to have a charactor annoy everyone around them or worse to attack and abuse particular players that they decided to harrass. Fortunately you don't fit that catagory. But sometimes that isn't apparent and new players are 'checked out' by others who want to be comfortable with the people they interact with ooc'ly even if they are IC conflicting. Some players are willing to offer advice ooc because they want to make sure the new player knows what they got into. Some drop in players create a charactor and expect Marrach to be like every other MUD they have played. It isn't. They leave. Those who tried to help them might feel some rejection and be less eager to help the next newcomer.
                            More than anything this game is about community. One can play Everquest solo to some extent, but in Marrach the players make the game, all of them - care-bears, criminals, observers, fashion police, brown-nosers, lovers, haters, everyone who is cooperating to tell the stories. Hang in there!
                            Kathy N
                            (Watchwoman Judith)
                            "I'm learning to fly, but I ain't got wings"
                            ~ Tom Petty & the Heartbreakers

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              . No one can lead me to an inconvient and annoying death through their stupidity here!
                              Can we all chorus a loud amen?

                              Although the messiest death I ever had was when I went to Befallen after having just bought nice new gear and memorized Spirit of Wolf for the very first time. 'What's this?' I thought 'A well? Let's peer down to see...WHAHAHAHA' And landed smack in the middle of necromancers, undead and wisps that were not happy to see me.

                              It took three futile tries by me, and finally a kind 50th level rogue to get my corpse. I was deleveled, but I had my things back.

                              Of course there was that time in the Warrens we met the evil group of trolls..

                              Lord. how it all comes back
                              Would you believe that we were method roleplayers roleplaying power-crazed adolescents roleplaying cyborgs?

                              Comment

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