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A rant by a disappointed player (warning: rambling content inside)

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  • #16
    I just wanted to say to the originator of this post: Nice RPing, I loved interacting with your character, I thought you gave him great depth for the short amount of time. It was nice to a see a villain with a plausible motivation. Keep it up.

    Rand an Dathuil


    • #17
      WARNING! Long Umi reply; you have been warned.

      Originally posted by Rogra

      And now today, I see this IC post by Velkyne (note the added 'e')!!! And this character is free, running around the castle, and posting on the in-character boards about the incident with Charmiam and the Guards. NO! This, in my opinion is really poor role-playing. This player should not be making going back out and creating a new character and trying to write them off as the same person. Velkyn is in the dungeon.
      To be honest, that was the thing that was upsetting me the most... Velkyn got arrested. Velkyne appears and acted EXACTLY like his predecessor. He claims being Velkyn's twin (something I will not comment on) and having spoken to him before he got imprisoned, which is impossible knowing that Velkyn got imprisoned on Friday morning and Velkyne awakened later that day (and I remember Velkyne saying that he had been awakened for less than a day too, which enforces the idea that the two characters never met)...

      That, EQ, is considered a no-no. Unless two characters actually met in game, they should not be sharing infos. I strongly advise you to keep that in mind, for it can make you avoid a lot (and I stress, A LOT) of troubles in the future, both OOC-ly and IC-ly. Believe me, I speak from experience.

      Though I must admit I am not perfect either, for the first thing I did when I saw Velkyne about was to shout at him IC and question him about who let him out of the dungeons... *proved yet again that a poptart without her Pepsi to keep her mind fully awake at 3 am EST cannot notice a letter at the end of a name that implies a new character*

      Now, that said, on with my trademarked 'Me Too' post...

      No, someone should not tell you how to roleplay. (And yes, I know I am not the best person to claim that. Hey, I have flaws too, you know)

      Yes, those choosing to play a disruptive character will have a hard time IC, and OOC too. Talk with Duren; the poor dearie had his share of OOC yelling for playing his character. *huggies Duren*

      Again, if your character causes ruckus, insults someone of higher rank, or shouts out loud that "THE QUEEN IS A WHORE!" (long story...), expect repercussions.

      It has been said before; Castle Marrach is a social game. It's population includes a large variety of goodie-two-shoes, snobbish peacocks, submissive minions, despised troublemakers, and villains hiding behind a mask of innocence... *idly polishes her fake halo* And many more types of people I will not list. It is like any real good society, and therefore has a solid structure and laws. You break the law, people might jump at your throat and/or have you get arrested on the double. It is a society based on Monarchy. Everybody owes the Queen their life, so do not be surprised if, yet again, people will want to jump at your throat and/or have you get arrested on the double shall you oppose Her Majesty.

      Now, I am not saying that you should not play a disruptive character. NO! Go ahead! Play this character, and enjoy it! It's been stated on countless time that conflict is good for stories. Conflict is a necessity.

      If you are up the challenge, then, go for it. Keep in mind though that either you play a goodie or a baddie, your actions will have consequences on the community; some might just have a bigger impact than others.

      That said, I want to apologize if I made you (or anybody else for that matter) feel bad in any way... It was definitively not my intent. We are all humans after all, (well... I hope we all are...) and human beings are far from being perfect.

      Good luck in your roleplaying, and welcome to the Skotos community.

      Play nice, people!

      My Canuck 0,02$,


      • #18
        Umi, just wanted to clarfify that I never claimed to be Velkyn's twin, someone else did and unfortunately it stuck. I suppose the other person had good intentions but I wish he didnt speak on my behalf in this matter.


        • #19
          Lesser and Greater Consent


          I'm not aware of the later issues you're talking about, but let me explain why Jorja, Ophi and Salain (me) were OOC annoyed with you.

          OK, you stole the cloak from Pegasus. A fairly childish plot, and one that for poor Jorja was getting tired. But we, and the rest of the OB, rolled with it.

          What annoyed us was the use of lesser consent to foil greater consent. Let me explain:

          Consent, as in consent allow/deny X exist to allow players to manage physical interaction. This is lesser consent. Greater consent (thanks for the term, Xios) is the idea that what you do has consequences. If you call the Queen a whore, you have to expect to meet with opposition. If you slander and plot against Sir Launfal and it can be traced, don't expect to get off with a slap on the wrist.

          Now, this is a medieval castle. Like it or not, the lower classes don't get much in the way of rights. We modify the excesses a bit to suit C21 sensibilities, but not much. So, understand that such concepts as 'innocent until proven guilty' and 'free speech' might get you labelled insane, but not much else.

          Now, when Velkyne grabbed that cloak despite Salain and Jorja's protests, you enacted greater consent. You deliberately placed yourself in a plot involving those characters, and Charmiam, and indeed the Queen. Implicitly, you agree to play the plot, for good or bad.

          Now, on at least two different occassions, Salain and Jorja attempted to physically interact with Velkyne. As I've shown IC on a couple of occassions, Salain is fast and agile. When he runs at Velkyne and tries to grab him, sitting under an invincible shield of consent is not an IC option. Likewise, when Jorja tries to punch Velkyne, he needs to respond. Simply saying "Let's not get violent, Sera" does not constitute a legitimate IC way of avoiding multiple punches. And again, though Jorja, Avocet and Salain had Velkyne surrounded, and Velkyne simply walked out of the room as if they were not there.

          Now, had Velkyne shown himself to be even quicker than Sal, or allowed Jorja to punch him harmlessly, or somehow shown that he was willing to interact with the physical environment in a plot Velkyne initiated, we would have rolled with it. But there was a distinct feeling on the part of Salain, Ophi and Jorja's players that Velkyne wanted to antagonise Jorja IC without accepting unpleasant IC responses.

          With ignorant newlies, such behaviour is forgivable. But those who want to try to RP a plot involving other players need to understand greater consent, the environment, and the expectations of those their actions affect.


          • #20

            Because I am ignorant I did make the mistakes you point out, however what you fail to mention is that once Jorja clarified in OOC that denying such actions isn't realistic, I immediately started allowing everything.

            Please include the whole picture if you wish to point out something next time. In this case the whole picture being that I learned from the error(s) and changed my ways to allow all actions.

            Just wanted to ask: Is there any way to automatically allow ALL actions done to you? Since Jorja pointed it out to me in OOC, I feel that it IS unrealistic to deny other people's actions.


            • #21
              "consent allow all"
              Kind of handy, but I'm still deciding.

              Oh, and Umichan? With the exchange I think we're only worth about $0.0157....


              • #22
                To Conflict or not to conflict

                I'm Not an Evil Woman..I just Play One on Marrach

                On the Subject of Villians

                So You Want to be Evil...

                Corvis' Workshop for Villians

                Thanks for using those threads..... as I posted alot in those threads, those will be my words again.

                Villiany is hard to play. If you do it well, you will be rewarded. I say this from experience under my belt being one of the longest old timers here.
                This Section is entirely OOC:
                If you obey all of the rules, you miss all of the fun. ~ Katherine Hepburn
                "Wise sayings often fall on barren ground; but a kind word is never thrown away." ~ Sir Arthur Helps.
                "Boredom is the fear of self." ~ Comtesse Diane
                Angron - Well, if pouches were a little bigger, Faer would have a mobile home "


                • #23
                  *Gasp!* Here's a useful "noise" thread on the "consent allow all" issue.



                  • #24
                    consent allow all

                    (Yes, I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I guess since I play an unintentional troublemaker myself, I can post here)

                    Thanks. I didn't know about that "allow all" thing. Some day recently, Zioth was getting people so riled up that I couldn't keep up with the number of "allow" commands that were comming in. A lot of people must have thought I was just trying to cause some OOC trouble when I didn't allow them to do things.

                    Well, now you can all do whatever you want to Zioth. He has run the "consent allow all" command.

                    (oh, and for those of you who have been wondering, Zioth has been run totally in-character to date. He is not just a troublemaker newly).


                    • #25
                      consent allow all
                      consent allow jorja

                      I am a bit reluctant about consent allow all since everyone can immediately assess all your skills, but consent allow [person] is a great way to allow those you trust/ interact heavily with.

                      "I don't see why it matters what is written. Not when it's about people. It can always be crossed out."

                      -- (Terry Pratchett & Neil Gaiman, Good Omens)


                      • #26
                        Everquest, and everyone,

                        I admit, the point of view presented is only that which I witnessed, and not events that occurred later. And both I and Sal have had little further direct interaction with the events in question, so my understanding is still that of what I witnessed and Velk's post. If events (IC and OOC) have moved on, I hope I will find out IC eventually.

                        However, I'd also like to return everybody's attention to Mintle's post. Troublemakers either need to have some means of getting favour - playing with one foot on each side of the line (hi, Britta) - or they will suffer, quickly. Other troublemakers are either boring (wake, insult random ranking dignitary, visit dungeon, repeat) or refuse to cooperate with the plot, causing OOC offense.

                        And note that cooperation is more than just "consent allow all". It's RP-ing realistic responses to interactions, and {preferably} achieving shared perspective on events so you can RP them together.

                        For a positive example of shared understanding, watch Mintle and Sansamor unscripted (as in OOC unscripted also) sometime. When I first saw how well Mintle and Sans could play off each other's moves, I was frankly amazed. But it's all about rapport - char-char and player-player via the chars.

                        In a conflict situation, you don't need as deep a rapport, but there still needs to be some shared view of what is going on. Otherwise, the perception is that you are trying to hijack the plot without consideration for the accepted mores. It is only a game, but every game has rules and etiquette, and the expectation is that you play by the rules or don't play.

                        Now, there is a place for those who wish to stand openly against the Queen, but those intending to charge the machine gun nest (to mix metaphors) need the loyalty of those about them before they start. Firebrands are interesting, but most newly firebrands will discover that everyone is happy enough to ignore them as they create a very short path to the dungeon. Once you've build some credibility (translation: once people see that you are a real character), then you can start shaking things up.


                        • #27
                          The victim speaks!

                          I was going to PM this to Everquest, but think it might be worth saying publicly.

                          I wanted to say a couple of things to you:

                          1. I thought your RPing was good. For both Velkyn and Velkyne. You stayed in character, as did I. It is in-character for Charmiam to call the Watch at times. It had nothing to do with not liking your RPing style, or with you being new - it had everything to do with what your characters were doing, and how my character is. There are IC consequences for IC actions, and going to the dungeon at times, is a thing a villain must expect.

                          2. I am very supportive of villains as a player, we need them. You will find when you have been here a bit longer, that Charmiam also has strange unlikely relationships with the castle villains. You will hear of Morte (sadly not with us any longer), you will notice her maternal love for Duren, and may even hear about her compassionate support for Twulf. There are others, but I don't want to give away too much IC knowlege - but rest assured, Charmiam currently is FRIENDS with one of the best villains in the castle. However, if they threaten the Queen, or if they threaten Charmiam's life - that's a different story.

                          3. I am confused as a player by the Velkyn/Velkyne thing. I can't see how Velkyne could have the knowledge of what happened to Velkyn. I think you need to cook up an explanation for that - or you will be accused of sharing IC knowlege between alts.

                          Anyway, enough from me. Keep playing - we need more villains. If Velkyne is more discreet, he might stay out of the dungeon long enough to get involved with some of the shadier characters in the castle (and believe me, they have their eye on you already ) as a potential good villain to join the dark side.



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