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Staff Policy: Character Death in Non-Revivable Circumstances

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  • Staff Policy: Character Death in Non-Revivable Circumstances

    Please take careful note of the following information:

    ATTENTION: You have now entered a DANGEROUS area of the Castle Marrach game. By continuing, you are consenting to whatever fate befalls your character including injury, loss of abilities or skills, death, and even permanent death. If you die down in this area, your body may not be recoverable. If you do not agree to this TURN BACK NOW. If you are being led here or lured here in-character you still have the option to refuse out-of-character, but you have been warned. If you are uncertain, TURN BACK NOW. If you have questions, use the @assist command.

    This is not a warning to take lightly. If you can't afford to lose your character permanently, then the Under Bailey is NOT a place you should take your character. If you go to the Under Bailey we still expect players to role play cooperatively, but should your character find themselves being warned off by others, and then if you have your character choose to ignore those warnings, and then find your character in a do or die situation and they die, your character is at the mercy of their killer.

    We won't change that. We will ensure that players are role playing fairly, but we aren't going to jump in and save your character if they get killed and someone stuffs the body in a hole for time and all eternity. This isn't a matter of Staff being heartless, this is an aspect of the game that players have to choose once they enter the Under Bailey, hence the reason for the initial warning before you enter that area.

    If you have questions in regards to this, feel free to post them here, assist, or email us.

    Thank you,
    Dathan
    Last edited by Kurzon; 06-26-2017, 01:41 PM. Reason: Re-titled as staff policy thread.
    While I may not always agree with you, I will always listen to you. I will always give my best effort to be fair with the individuals involved, no matter what my prior associations with them may have been. I enjoy this duty, and while everyone is not always pleased with the outcome, we must remember that there are two sides to every issue and in as much, fair may not always seem fair to everyone involved. Nevertheless, I will do my best.

    Thank you,
    SG Dathan

  • #2
    I've been meaning to make a point of stressing this fact. Thank you.

    - Lin
    "It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other."
    - Petrarch


    "So far as he is able, a prince should stick to the path of good but, if the necessity arises, he should know how to follow evil."
    - Niccolo Machiavelli

    "Men should be either treated generously or destroyed, because they take revenge for slight injuries - but for severe ones they cannot."
    - Niccolo Machiavelli

    Comment


    • #3
      And now having stressed that fact, let me say this:

      Everyone works hard with their character and has some sort of attachment to their character. Consider first what it would do to you if your character was taken away forever, before you inflict permanent death upon someone elses character.

      I'm not saying you need to play your characters differently than what you feel they would do, but just for a moment have that thought in your mind and realize that the choice to permanently kill someones character may in fact remove that player from the game, in the event they cannot handle the loss. If you are even remotely doing it to hurt the player, you are doing it for the WRONG reasons.

      Everyone who enters there knows the risk, but consider that there might be more of a story if those bodies find their way out, at least some day. Entirely up to those who enter the Under Bailey how they choose to handle this, as long as the role play was fair, and as long as you are still playing cooperatively and not competitively.
      While I may not always agree with you, I will always listen to you. I will always give my best effort to be fair with the individuals involved, no matter what my prior associations with them may have been. I enjoy this duty, and while everyone is not always pleased with the outcome, we must remember that there are two sides to every issue and in as much, fair may not always seem fair to everyone involved. Nevertheless, I will do my best.

      Thank you,
      SG Dathan

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by SG Dathan View Post
        Consider first what it would do to you if your character was taken away forever, before you inflict permanent death upon someone elses character.
        I've willingly and knowingly placed two of my main characters in a total of 6+ situations where permanent death was immediately probable (not even counting visits to the Under Bailey - that place is still cake compared to court intrigue!). I expect it to happen every time. It's part of the game, no matter where you are. Sometimes, stories got to end. (In fact, there's a great Skotos article about how stories with a definite end are better...)

        I'd expect other players to have a similarly realistic view of what they get their characters involved in, especially when making enemies. Normal death just isn't very effective or useful in the Castle.
        Priam: You know what's a bad idea?
        Kyramor: Not usually

        Comment


        • #5
          Indeed, I agree with Priam. Recently, Jeff took a tumble off the bridge. I was repeatedly told that 'this is a -very- high and likely chance of Perma death for him. Are you sure?' I, of course, said yes. Why? Because to this point, he's had one -hell- of a story. I would be a bit down if I lost him 100% for all time, but as long as it was done fair, and was a good story, I would have no problems with it whatsoever. In fact, I was hoping he would stay in the abyss for a few weeks, but the bastard didn't even make it two hours.

          Guess he really is the cockroach of the court. >.>
          Sir Vestio frowns, "Are you stinking drunk, boy?"
          Prince Bertram explains in Northern, "The duel was to prove me wrong Jeffery. This is your opportunity to prove me correct."

          Comment


          • #6
            Please keep this in mind. Once you enter the Under Bailey your character is fair game. Please read this and understand the consequences. Feel free to reply and discuss if you wish but do not use specific instances.

            Thank you.
            While I may not always agree with you, I will always listen to you. I will always give my best effort to be fair with the individuals involved, no matter what my prior associations with them may have been. I enjoy this duty, and while everyone is not always pleased with the outcome, we must remember that there are two sides to every issue and in as much, fair may not always seem fair to everyone involved. Nevertheless, I will do my best.

            Thank you,
            SG Dathan

            Comment


            • #7
              *bah-bump*
              "It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other."
              - Petrarch


              "So far as he is able, a prince should stick to the path of good but, if the necessity arises, he should know how to follow evil."
              - Niccolo Machiavelli

              "Men should be either treated generously or destroyed, because they take revenge for slight injuries - but for severe ones they cannot."
              - Niccolo Machiavelli

              Comment


              • #8
                I wouldn't play a game where perma death was not an option.

                Comment


                • #9
                  A reminder.

                  StoryPlotter Geist
                  geist@marrach.skotos.net

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    A relevant bump on this topic.

                    The warning in the original post appears in bright font every time you go to the Under Bailey or other areas outside the castle walls where Lith does not collect bodies, and I think it's message is clear. No one can take you to the deep caves against your OOC consent (or situationally, implied consent if you've willingly gone down there before), but once you're down there you're free game and have consented to anything that befalls your character.

                    I realize that in recent years, since the IC peace between Marrach and the Conclave, the Under has become less of the "PVP zone" it was 6+ years ago when both sides were in open conflict and people were regularly killed or captured for long periods of time on both sides. And with the Conclavers in recent years generally acting as 'search and rescue', this warning has been taken less seriously; it should not be. Though it is a foreign sounding thought in today's 'friendly, low-consequences' CM, there was a time when characters regularly were lost forever in the Under Bailey.

                    I say this as someone who has had one character be killed down there and be lost forever, another (who was my main at the time) be killed and be lost for five years before being found, and another (who became my new main) die for another year; take these warnings seriously.

                    Thanks and Happy Gaming
                    StoryHost Kurzon
                    Castle Marrach Staff

                    kurzon.marrach@outlook.com

                    The destiny of the world is determined less by the battles that are lost and won than by the stories it loves and believes in.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      is it also impossible to take corpses into the deep caves without the player's consent?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        By "impossible" you mean literally? No, there's no coded system that physically prevents someone from picking up a body and taking it below. If, however, you're asking whether it's against the game's rules to take someone's corpse from the castle proper to a no-revival zone to prevent their resurrection, the short answer is "yes".

                        The long answer is, "Implied consent still applies". In Castle Marrach, implied consent is understood to mean, "if you voluntarily take actions that place your character in a situation where you knew or reasonably ought to have known that your actions could provoke X consequences, you cannot hide behind consent refusal as a means to prevent those consequences."

                        An example of this; Once there was a character who went to the Deep Caves, stole something therein, left the Deep Caves without being caught, and then made it well-known to the castle that she had committed this deed and did not fear reprisal from the people in the Under Bailey whom she had stolen from (naturally she did this with the OOC knowledge that she was 'outside the perma death area' now). The StoryGuides in that case ruled that because said character had previously consented to dieing in the Deep Caves by voluntarily going there to begin with, and because she had taken action that she knew would provoke the characters she stole from into retaliation, that her character was fair game for retribution by those characters, up to and including killing her and dragging her below.

                        That isn't to say that because you went to the caves one time ever five years ago that it's now and forever open season for anyone who wants to kill you and dump you there for whatever unrelated reason they like. Implied consent requires that a clear line can be established between the actions taken by the 'victim' and the consequences being presented to them by the character responding to those actions. Using again the above example, Joe Random who had nothing to do with the above incident couldn't decide he wanted to kill that character and take her body below because the character in question did nothing to Joe Random that 'reasonably ought to have provoked him'.

                        Another example of a case with different circumstances; Once upon a time it wasn't uncommon for law enforcers and vigilantes to 'stake out' the uppermost tunnels and secret passages. Wearing disguise cloaks (to hide themselves on the Who List I suppose) characters would sit just beyond the OOC "line" that separates the regular playing space from the no-revival area, and hide on the 'safe' side of the line in wait of rebels coming up to check for scrolls and such to ambush them. It was determined in this case that because the characters were deliberately hiding behind an OOC boundary to protect their characters ICly from the consequences they were provoking, that they were also fair game to be killed and taken below even if they had not crossed the no-revival boundary.

                        So altogether, no, you can't be killed and have your character's body hidden in the Deep Caves for no reason just because Rebel Bob feels like killing people today and you were the unfortunate soul who crossed his path. If, however, you had already recently consented to not being revived via not-so-long-ago trips to the Deep Caves, and you had regular IC contact with Rebel Bob, and people warned you that Rebel Bob was a ruthless murderer who was going to kill you, and you continued to visit with him regardless of these warnings, and then you tell everyone that you plan to lure and kill Rebel Bob with promises of sex, but instead, after said sex he kills you and throws you in the Deep Caves as everyone warned you he would because he heard about the plans you had told everyone, it might be fairly argued that you 'reasonably ought to have seen that coming'. And I generally support the belief that if you attempt to permanently kill someone yourself, you're fair game for the same by your intended victim.

                        Hopefully that answers any hanging questions.

                        Thanks and happy gaming!
                        StoryHost Kurzon
                        Castle Marrach Staff

                        kurzon.marrach@outlook.com

                        The destiny of the world is determined less by the battles that are lost and won than by the stories it loves and believes in.

                        Comment

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