Forum Nazis

[Lance]

And I know going to CE isnt worth it. When I had a problem with the leadSH emailing me and PMing me(even tho I requested he not contact me at all) CE bounced the issue back to that lead SH.

Last time I complained to CE about corrupt staff, they sent me insults. Like, literally, one of the staff I was complaining about got online and wrote me an email filled with insults. Then they told me to quit 'their game,' and all other Skotos games.

Then the staffers I whistle-blowed on banned me for stalking them. In real life.

This was despite the fact the person in question lives in a totally different geographic region from thousands of miles away. Almost as far away as South Dakota

I guess my own personal aeroplane really helps me to be a stalker!



Shannon himself eventually wrote to me, but he just said, "Welp, staff wouldn't lie!" and gave a half-hearted attempt to soothe things over without actually giving me anything other than the email equivalent of a 'sucks to be you.'

So, I pay for a full product, but not only do you take some of it away while I'm using it, you let VOLUNTEERS take it away without so much as asking me what's going on? Surely, if I was really staking out somebody's home, pointing my slingshot-of-DEATH(TM) at their newborn kittens, maybe the right response would be, "Let's buy a bigger slingshot and lock our doors, call the police, and bring the kittens in!"

Not, "OMG! BAN-HAMMER!" *push giggle button*

[John]

Geist, no offense...but come on. A lot of us -have- done this and nothing has ever been done about it.

I know I submitted a complaint about a StoryGuide answering the assist of his RL live in girlfriend in order to stop the VP I was playing at the time from coming down on her character IC. Another SG told me later that he had -already- been warned about taking her assists.

Not only was nothing ever done about it to my knowledge, he's still an SG. Not only is he still an SG, but I know he has still stepped in and taken action on assists filed by her in ways that other players have felt to be completely unfair to them.

Now, I am fully expecting the canned responses. "We can't reveal what actions were taken." Or, "You don't know everything that happened behind the scenes."

People see and experience stuff like this over and over, and all responses like the above do is put a bitter taste in their mouths.

I have to stand with shadust on this one. I know I complaned about a number of things, and it seemed to me that if I had a log of everything ever related to it I might have had a chance of something going on. Most of the time I got in trouble for even saying anything, or nothing happend at all. Heck I think the SC who was a major abuser is still around. However since I, as a player, didnt log and conferm and get witnesses to anything wrong (hard to do at the least) it was glossed.
And I know going to CE isnt worth it. When I had a problem with the leadSH emailing me and PMing me(even tho I requested he not contact me at all) CE bounced the issue back to that lead SH.

[Shadust]

If you are aware of any member of staff who is abusing their position, either through OOC knowledge or by cross-over, please let me know.

If you are aware of any member of staff who is using staff power for the benefit of their characters, please inform me. It is against the rules, and they know it.

Plot information is kept on a Plotter TWiki site that only plot staff have access to, unless special permission is given for specific pages.

geist@marrach.skoto.net

Geist, no offense...but come on. A lot of us -have- done this and nothing has ever been done about it.

I know I submitted a complaint about a StoryGuide answering the assist of his RL live in girlfriend in order to stop the VP I was playing at the time from coming down on her character IC. Another SG told me later that he had -already- been warned about taking her assists.

Not only was nothing ever done about it to my knowledge, he's still an SG. Not only is he still an SG, but I know he has still stepped in and taken action on assists filed by her in ways that other players have felt to be completely unfair to them.

Now, I am fully expecting the canned responses. "We can't reveal what actions were taken." Or, "You don't know everything that happened behind the scenes."

People see and experience stuff like this over and over, and all responses like the above do is put a bitter taste in their mouths.

[Shadust]

He's not over-sensitive. All he suggested was there might be something wrong that us Americans, not being the most cultured people in the world, might have missed.

No. He demanded that because .01 % of the playerbase (i.e. himself) had went out of it's way to twist something into being racist and offensive that the other 99.99 % of us bend over backwards and submit to his wishes (i.e. changing a character that has been in the game for what...8 years?).

Hurtful jokes and insults directed at ethnic minorities are exactly what racism is all about. Suggesting that some Arab guy shouldn't be be upset because you also insult other minorities and make jokes at them, then call them dumb asses, too, probably isn't the best strategy to proving you're a nice guy.

I guess we'll have to disagree on the first part. I think that until each and everyone of us stops hiding behind a color barrier and getting offended every time someone says something funny that might remind us of where we came from, racism will never go away.

As to the second part, I'm not trying to prove I'm a nice guy. Maybe I am. Maybe I'm not. Irrelevant.

[Geist]

From past experiance, you arnt. No matter what you say. If anything you get away with more. Plus you and your characters have all the plot info, who, when, where, and how. Holier then thou, you arnt.

If you are aware of any member of staff who is abusing their position, either through OOC knowledge or by cross-over, please let me know.

If you are aware of any member of staff who is using staff power for the benefit of their characters, please inform me. It is against the rules, and they know it.

Plot information is kept on a Plotter TWiki site that only plot staff have access to, unless special permission is given for specific pages.

geist@marrach.skoto.net

[Lance]

He's not over-sensitive. All he suggested was there might be something wrong that us Americans, not being the most cultured people in the world, might have missed.

Hurtful jokes and insults directed at ethnic minorities are exactly what racism is all about. Suggesting that some Arab guy shouldn't be be upset because you also insult other minorities and make jokes at them, then call them dumb asses, too, probably isn't the best strategy to proving you're a nice guy.

The tone of that thread wouldn't have even been polite to someone of the same race. If someone wants to have an educational discussion and the only response we can think is, "Let's post disgusting pictures and make fun of the Arabs,[/I]" maybe you don't mean to come across as a racist, but you can't be surprised if someone thinks that's your goal.

Seriously, this isn't 1960's in the South. This is the CM forums.

[Shadust]

I'll mock arabs. I'll mock blacks. I'll mock whites and the chinese.

All equally. There was no "hate-speak" in that thread. There were no calls for genocide. There were, however, people mocking someone for being an over-sensitive dumbass.

And I submit to you that if you give a dumbass a free pass just because of the color of his skin or his ethnic background, you are a racist.

Lighten up, people. It's jokes.

[Lance]

Agreed. Harsh, insulting, insensitive maybe...but not racist.

Hilarious also, but not racist.

To clarify, just as South Dakota's borders do not border the Atlantic Ocean, in which case the state of South Dakota is not bordering on the ocean, so too was that thread not bordering on racism.

Rather, it was way over the racism line. Imagine the racism line to be something like the Mason-Dixon line (which isn't a bad reference point, actually). The forums these past few days? Yah, we were somewhere down south. Close to Florida.

Seriously, when a guy politely suggests that maybe having a whole plot center around a character with superficially embarrassing and degrading stereotypes might possibly maybe maybe might not be the best idea, we can react in a few ways.

Disagreeing or showing counterpoints? Good idea. Pointing out a few secrets some people might not have seen? Good idea. Noting that if one invests a bit of time, there's a deeper story? Nobody knows that for a fact but it's certainly a good hypothesis. Mocking Arabs? Hmm.

Ehh. Bush thinks it's a great thing to do. Maybe I should be more American.

[SG Dathan]

No matter what I say? Ok.

From past experience, actually being staff and seeing what goes on behind the scenes, we are. I'm sure the OOC grapevine provides a lot of information and all but it does not replace actually being there and knowing what goes on and what expectations Staff are held to.

It would be incorrect to say that all Staff have access to plot info, who, when, where and how. Why is that even subject matter for this particular thread? Is it just to attempt to paint Staff in a negative light?

Someone on staff HAS to know the plot information or how else will the game run? Someone on staff HAS to build and code things or how else will the game run?
Someone on staff HAS to be available for player disputes or how else will the game run?

Will all of those people be a perfect fit? No. Will some of them screw up and make mistakes? Of course. Will we deal with them as quickly as possible? Most definitely. Do we expect Staff to not screw up and make mistakes or cheat? Absolutely.

Unfortunately we can't control every person that ever joins Staff. People being human and all, it's inevitable that some of us will make mistakes, but holding all of Staff to the flame because of it? Create a game and staff it with perfect people and let us know how that goes. I'm thinking that's something that isn't possible and so each game, whatever it is, deals with these issues as they arrive and in the best way that they can.

Just like we do.

Will it always be to your liking? I doubt it. But it's impossible to please everyone, all of the time, with everything. It just isn't possible. So we'll continue to do the best we can.

[Legion]

We are. -----------

From past experiance, you arnt. No matter what you say. If anything you get away with more. Plus you and your characters have all the plot info, who, when, where, and how. Holier then thou, you arnt.

[SG Dathan]

I stand by the fact that Staff should be held to a higher standard then the rest of the players.

We are. -----------

[britta]

The fact that staff are also paying players puts them in a far more attractive position to abuse that power. A few have done so, and there is little motivation for them not too. The fact that they are still playing, and at the same time have staff powers to spy on other characters and "know" things that the rest of us don't is dangerous. Dangerous for them, because accusations and gossip can be very damaging to their credibilty for the other players, and dangerous for us, because we all know at least one who has abused those powers for the gain of their own character(s) and their friends.

I stand by the fact that Staff should be held to a higher standard then the rest of the players. That is what they signed up for. There wasn't a draft. This is a voluntary position.

[Eddy]

I do not generally reply to post like this as it is just senseless to. Meaning I know after I post this I will be torn apart for my opinion. But never the less this needs to be said.

So far all I have seen is STAFF doing this and STAFF doing that to players. HELLO, in case anyone has forgotten STAFF are players too and paying customers as much as any of you on here!!! What they do they do not get PAID to do! The up hold the rules some which are THE LAW and some which are designed to protect everyone...not just to make your life miserable. Part of being part of a community is having regard to others feelings. You just because you think it is alright to come on and insult someone does not make it right. Even if you are right about what you post does not mean that how you said it or how you made it know was right. So stop and think before you post. There are rules here. Rules you agreed too upon joining Skotos. If you feel those rules are wrong...hay no one is stopping you go post somewhere else then and let it out. But spare the rest of us.

Insulting staff is not going to make it any better either. I am sorry but STAFF works DAMN hard to make the game more enjoyable. Sometimes it is hard to make everyone happy. Not everyone is going to be overjoyed by ever aspect of the game. But then that is their opinion. An opinion that can be stated here in a grown-up manner without cuss words and insults. Or if you are that mad then step back..calm down ...think and then write. Or file an assist. Plain and simple. But there has to be few out there that have to turn a game into a political affair!!! GET OVER IT!! And then move on.

You know who else did a lot of good things for the place he administered, despite doing some terrible things?

[Uwaine]

How about we censor five feet tall signatures?

I just want to reiterate this point.

[Finna]

I do not generally reply to post like this as it is just senseless to. Meaning I know after I post this I will be torn apart for my opinion. But never the less this needs to be said.

So far all I have seen is STAFF doing this and STAFF doing that to players. HELLO, in case anyone has forgotten STAFF are players too and paying customers as much as any of you on here!!! What they do they do not get PAID to do! The up hold the rules some which are THE LAW and some which are designed to protect everyone...not just to make your life miserable. Part of being part of a community is having regard to others feelings. You just because you think it is alright to come on and insult someone does not make it right. Even if you are right about what you post does not mean that how you said it or how you made it know was right. So stop and think before you post. There are rules here. Rules you agreed too upon joining Skotos. If you feel those rules are wrong...hay no one is stopping you go post somewhere else then and let it out. But spare the rest of us.

Insulting staff is not going to make it any better either. I am sorry but STAFF works DAMN hard to make the game more enjoyable. Sometimes it is hard to make everyone happy. Not everyone is going to be overjoyed by ever aspect of the game. But then that is their opinion. An opinion that can be stated here in a grown-up manner without cuss words and insults. Or if you are that mad then step back..calm down ...think and then write. Or file an assist. Plain and simple. But there has to be few out there that have to turn a game into a political affair!!! GET OVER IT!! And then move on.