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~Rant Warning~ Removals and "The end" [CLOSED]

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  • ~Rant Warning~ Removals and "The end" [CLOSED]

    Hey all. Today I was treated to a small dose of "OOC bitterness". There's a lot of threads like this knocking around, this time I'll direct it at Sorcery, and why I think Serista needs to be woken up, or some new VP introduced who can be the White to the current Black of the Sorcery group. I know, *le gasp* at the idea of new VP's, but here we go anyway.

    Lircau was removed, for most likely good this time, from the Sorcery Program today. Now...This occurred because he whispered in the Chamberlain's Hallway to a fellow Hopeful that he disliked Claudia. I figured "What could be the harm of allowing Corin to hear that?" So, I used the general whisper to "stir up drama". Goodie. His meeting with Launfal went off without a hitch, ect, ect.

    That is probably going to be the last time I decide to do so. From now on, I'll just follow suit and use private whispers that cause rooms of people to become silent blocks of nothingness.

    I'm not being avataristic here. I don't mind having bad stuff happen to my characters. Hell, I even thought that it would be cool if Lircau would lose his eyes if he was ever bound, triggering a plot where the rest of the sorcery community decides to help him or not. "Seeing spells" or something fun like that. Beatings, medical trauma, sure, sure.

    Even setbacks. I'm banking STPs to use on him so I don't have to risk his deletion at Binding. I could have him sit and talk Sorcery forever, and slowly gain favor, whatever.

    So, let's see here. I've spent time writing Uwaine, Claudia, Ra'Dorcha, attended three sorcery meetings, come up with a dozen focus ideas, even gotten halfway through writing a in-game book discussing Sorcery. Top of the world.

    Corin tells Claudia ICly that Lircau insulted her. Claudia has to react in the cruelest way possible, it's what she does. Removal from the program. Permanently.

    Let's talk about that word. Permanent removal. Every speck of time, every discussion, every thing I've done in hopes of Lircau getting to somewhat where I want to RP him at is wasted. Nothingness. I can deal with setbacks, but being forced into this is leaves, I'm sorry to say, a real bitter taste in my mouth. It could be worse, I suppose.


    Just my 2pc: Guild Removal sucks. Unless a person OOCly steers their character into something so outrageously bad that it's clear they OOCLY -want- to ICly be removed, don't do it. I've have had Lircau taken lashings, extra work, menial tasks, anything. But to be simply denied any chance at something I've worked on for over a year is maddening. If you want the Storyhosts to work on your guild, maybe trying to steer you characters to get more new players, new characters INSIDE something is the way to go.

  • #2
    Ok, my suggestion, and with the full realization that I have not been an angel myself:

    We need to worry a bit about the athmosphere building up here. People are snapping at each other like very snapping ducks. Try raising this point, which is worth debate, when you are not angry or annoyed.
    BRAAAAIIINS!

    Comment


    • #3
      Not that I play this game much anymore, but I felt like adding my two cents to this.

      There are so many fun and interesting punishments that could be employed that encourage RP, and perhaps spark interest in a group. Kicking someone out of a program is kind of like slamming the door on further RP.

      Yes, these guilds and groups ARE supposed to be about earning and maintaining favor, and needing favor to advance, but I think that kicking someone out like that can be a real interest-killer.

      It can only enhance the reputation of the sorcery program if they're known to make their members do mean and nasty things to get back into their good graces. It certainly packs more punch than "Eh, if they don't like you, they'll just kick you out." It also gives the player a chance to rectify an IC relationship that (especially with a program like the sorcery one) can take several -months- of IC AND OOC time to develop. And only 5 IC minutes to completely obliterate.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have to say that might have been a bit overboard on Claudia's part. There could have been more Rp gotten from it by having him do something to make up for what he said. But there can be good Rp here too. Being removed from a program or guild even Permanently....well doesn't mean so. He might have to work to gain some sort of favor back but it is possible for him to work towards gaining some sort of forgiveness. Can't expect Claudia's player to play Claudia any different. So try to look at this as a good Rping chance. You can have your character bag for forgiveness or work to unseat Claudia or even come up with an outside source that might be able to intercede for him. Something along those lines.

        But by the same note I do think it was a bit harsh for any guild to so readily choose totally kicking a character out just because that character doesn't like their character. With the way guild's are struggling now it only serves to make guild look even more bad. Now it is true I do not know the whole situation, but it appears to be only a clash of differences. But I do hope something works out for you on this.
        Finna Moon, Courtier to Her Majesty's Court




        Comment


        • #5
          FWIW, my logs show no scrolls signed by Lircau in the last 4 months.

          Hey, at least your head's not in a jar. And if you think Serista is nicer than Uwaine and Claudia... rofl

          Originally posted by Lircau View Post
          Unless a person OOCly steers their character into something so outrageously bad that it's clear they OOCLY -want- to ICly be removed, don't do it.
          Man what.

          That is hilarious.

          Can I have what you're smoking?


          Seriously, though, there's no Sorcery - there's just a sorcerer. I can't say I'm going to give a shit until there's at least one Binding (which is, you know, contingent on staff actually letting us go through with bringing Serista back, since they're not willing to give us the Binding; and this will require the new Sorcery system to be coded first...).

          Until that happens, all the effort put into any hopeful or student is a 99% waste (rather than the usual 95%), and I don't think anyone should bother becoming a Sorcery hopeful until that time. I guess I should have "closed the books" a year or two ago, but it's a bit late now. (Really, the only reason Uwaine's making Claudia give lessons is to screw with her anyway.)

          Also seriously - yes, there should be some room for back-and-forth. But why did you have an illusion of invincibility? You realize the game, being intrigue, functions primarily on what people tell people about people? Did you - or your character - consider, "What will Claudia do if this gets back to her?" Things like this get around, and hopefuls are dismissed on a whim, because they are completely worthless, being a drain on resources that produces nothing. (To us, anyway. Serista's got a reason to care, but hey, guess what? No Serista. See, there's this great plot that came up a year or two after the last player quit in a huff, and we're not allowed to move it forward yet, so...)

          And yet more seriously - almost a year? Three meetings? Aww. You might want to ask Claudia's player about wasting time. Can we get some numbers here, Claudia? Years spent, lessons held, % of hopefuls still around, % of hopefuls who stuck around for even a month?
          > You sneer briefly, "Personality. Oh, yes, you are all as unique as snowflakes, and exactly as interesting. You fall and you melt. No one cares or notices when you are gone."

          Queen Vivienne smiles supportively at you, "It appears you stun Our household into silence."

          Nallia sees your face horrifiedly.

          Vestio's Player: "You go, Skeletor! :P"

          Comment


          • #6
            Ok, anyone who knows Claudia as a character knows that she will not put up with any BS and she's not the most tolerant character by any means. Claudia is also the kind of character who will do what is best for -herself-... She is not going to keep Lircau around so that she can babysit him and be talked about... in front of a knight, none the less.

            Also, it's not like she and Lircau were best friends... It's not as if Lircau was a huge asset to the sorcery program, or to Claudia herself. Wasn't it just last week when Claudia was going to publicly beat him with a cane for doing something that annoyed her/Uwaine? If this was the first time he'd done something bad, then maybe permanent removal would be uncalled for. Perhaps something lesser, like, say... beating him with a cane in public? Wait, that's already been tried.

            Just because he was told he was removed permanently does not mean that he has to take that as an answer. He HAD to have been willing to do a certain amount of ass-kissing to get into the sorcery program to begin with, so make him step it up a notch. Make him useful to the program... If he is useful he is not going to be turned down, no matter what has happened in the past.

            Comment


            • #7
              Dude, this is CM. It happens.

              Kyramor kicked ASS in the Squire's Challenge, but lost any chance at becoming a squire because a rumor got to Boreas' ears.

              Jakt could have, MANY TIMES, lost his job with Lady Berthe with a few stray words.

              Like Uwi said, this is a social game -- every word you say has its implications, if it comes around and bites you in the ass, it kinda sucks, but roll with it.

              EDIT: And anyway, permanent removal isn't necessarily permanent, believe me.
              Andeh ^_^

              Comment


              • #8
                I'm afraid you have painted a very one-sided picture here. Not that this topic should be of interest to anyone on an OOC-stand, but as you decided to bring it out into the open, let's review, shall we?

                Claudia gets contacted by Lircau for lessons. Agrees and does it because Uwaine has bullied her into taking over for him (I KNEW he was screwing with her, grr.). Word reaches to her that Lircau is basically talking a lot of crap behind her back. Cool. Great. Fun RP to respond to.

                But then she plays a total BITCH and gives Lircau a place in the Ra'dorcha's focus-cleansing ritual, that took place in a highly exclusive area of the Castle and was generally a great scene. Please, can I block out some more of your Sorcery-related RP?

                Needless to say at this time Lircau was NOT gaining any extra brownie points by not sending in focus-designs for her to forward to Uwaine, so clearly your desire and passion on an OOC basis to have Lircau be a Sorcerer was not as deeply in-grained IC as he wasn't doing the things he needed to proceed in the Program.

                After all that, Claudia gets contacted by the RG about an unsigned scroll found in the tunnels with fishy content (at this time Claudia is under heavy escort due to recent death-threats from those below, for v. valid IC reasons). Unsigned scroll gets plopped under the scrying mirror, guess who wrote it? Oh, right, Lircau. Claudia gets advised by the Guard to dismiss him as he could be a potential threat, and Uwaine basically told her to call the shots.

                So she does. Big scene in the courtyard. A lot of cussing flies out. Here's a tip: Don't accuse Claudia of keeping Serista locked away for her own gain, don't accuse her of being Uwaine's whore, don't call her a bitch, and whatever other poetic swear-words that were flung out... not a good idea if she is your only chance at a solid place in the program (at the time).

                But OH! She accepts him back. How very evil of her, no? We all know about the public thrasing that never came to be... And she accepts him into her Sorcery Lectures, yadda yadda...

                But alas. Lircau can't keep his trap shut. Talking about how an Enemy of the Crown is worth so much more than Claudia in the aspect of Sorcery, in public (whispers or not, he was heard, so you auto-consented to whatever would happen were she to find out). Whaddya know? She finds out. And she's meant to... forgive and forget? After how many chances? Give me a break. After the FIRST dismissal I OOCly bent my character's rules and had her re-admit Lircau. Normally she would never have done that.

                She has been more than lenient, and now I am wondering why I wasted my playing time to just get hit in the face with this crap. Knew I shouldn't have made Claudia so benevolent after the first offense. Ungrateful.

                It's not as if the road is completely blocked, anyway. Try Uwaine... haha. Ahem. Yeah, try having Lircau talk to Uwaine. Let's not forget it was a Sorcery HOPEFUL who told him he was permanently banned and expelled. Maybe Uwaine will tell Claudia she's just being bratty and think up some way for Lircau to work his way back into the Program. Don't expect it to go smoothly with Claudia, though.

                Accept the consequences of your character's actions. Keep it IC.

                Originally posted by Uwaine View Post
                And yet more seriously - almost a year? Three meetings? Aww. You might want to ask Claudia's player about wasting time. Can we get some numbers here, Claudia? Years spent, lessons held, % of hopefuls still around, % of hopefuls who stuck around for even a month?
                I've lost count.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ah, the second side of the story, gotta hate it when that happens, eh?

                  Sounds like your character got what he finally deserved. Carry on.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hey now, everyone ... play nice. I mean it.

                    StoryPlotter Geist
                    geist@marrach.skotos.net

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wow, this is terrible.



                      Originally posted by Lircau View Post
                      Hey all. Today I was treated to a small dose of "OOC bitterness". There's a lot of threads like this knocking around, this time I'll direct it at Sorcery, and why I think Serista needs to be woken up, or some new VP introduced who can be the White to the current Black of the Sorcery group. I know, *le gasp* at the idea of new VP's, but here we go anyway.
                      Lircau's player didn't post here because he was bitching out Claudia or anything like that. He was posing the point that maybe it would be a good idea to get a new VP so that he'd have a bit more options on how to "roll with it", and "move on". What he's asking for is a way to get around Claudia, basically what Claudia's player told him to do with Uwaine. I'm not really a sorcerer in the game, but it sounds like a great idea to me. It makes for some really good roleplay, and a way to get around roadblocks.

                      Even Temor's player posted right after Lircau's, and what did he say? He asked that everyone please not snap at each other.

                      Originally posted by Temor View Post
                      Ok, my suggestion, and with the full realization that I have not been an angel myself:

                      We need to worry a bit about the athmosphere building up here. People are snapping at each other like very snapping ducks. Try raising this point, which is worth debate, when you are not angry or annoyed.
                      You know what? You all should've listened. I mean, Jesus Christ, people. What the hell? One concept that was drilled in when I first got here was that if someone has a problem with your character, it's your -character-, and not you. Yet still, on this board it seems like people are taking things personally.

                      Now, Lircau said that he was feeling OOC bitterness, and he thought there might be a solution to alleviate things for the sorcery program. Agree or disagree? Say so, and put forward why. But here, I've mainly seen thinly veiled insults in angry posts that didn't even address whether they though a new VP would be a good idea or not.

                      I understand that sometimes a thread goes on, a nerve is hit somewhere, and tensions rise. That's not really okay, but it's understandable. This? Went from being a decent discussion to a bunch of angry ranters. ??? Not okay.

                      Seriously, people. Is this the kind of atmosphere you want newlies to walk into? -No wonder- Marrach is having a population issue. I've -just- payed for this next month, and -still-, I'm considering walking out right now and letting the money waste.

                      Grow up, hold yourself together, and have a reasonable, logical debate, rather than throw insults at eachother all day.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is pretty standard, and understandable, that when specific circumstances are referred to and names are named people will feel the need to defend themselves.

                        And yes, sometimes it is hard to talk about general circumstances without referring to the specific. Generally speaking, generally speaking is the better direction to take on the forums.

                        Niceties aside, keep snapping at each other and I will close the thread down.

                        StoryPlotter Geist
                        geist@marrach.skotos.net

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dragonne1234 View Post
                          Wow, this is terrible.

                          Lircau's player didn't post here because he was bitching out Claudia or anything like that.
                          So, uh, bro... did you read the initial post?

                          Sorry, but when you come in swinging, expect to get swung at. Lircau did just that.

                          Other than that, I have no real opinion on the matter in general. Didn't bother to read the entire thread, but it sounds like someone got pwned in the face and doesn't want to deal with it IC.


                          - Lin
                          "It is more honorable to be raised to a throne than to be born to one. Fortune bestows the one, merit obtains the other."
                          - Petrarch


                          "So far as he is able, a prince should stick to the path of good but, if the necessity arises, he should know how to follow evil."
                          - Niccolo Machiavelli

                          "Men should be either treated generously or destroyed, because they take revenge for slight injuries - but for severe ones they cannot."
                          - Niccolo Machiavelli

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well, suffice to say I don't really care what you guys post. Maybe I deserve the snapping. This first post was not in any way shape or form directed at anyone, least of all Claudia's handler. Sorry if it sounded like it was. I've had great RP with that character, and good conflict. I'm just saying that I'm bitter it ended that way. Could have been so much better if she had...Oh, I don't know, taken him somewhere private and beat the holy hell out of him? He's not going to say it was her, because then she'd just eject him, seeing as she "has the power"----Then, Lircau stays with the hopefuls, and hates Claudia's guts even more, for-ever-and-ever-and-ever. Won't that be interesting? Oh, never mind. We'll just keep Lircau from even having to be near her again.


                            Just saying, that older handlers might want to take extra steps when considering what to do to younger characters/players given that you're already on high-horses with special whatever and favor and what not and if -no one- actually progressed their "abrasive" characters then all the gentry would be carebears. I understand that there is intrigue, but Lircau never even stood a chance. It was "You're not good enough" from day one.

                            Find a way to punish characters that doesn't CLOSE doors, but OPEN them, pretty, pretty please?


                            And by the way, thanks to all who assumed I'm one of the 99% of hopefuls who find something hard and then leave or delete their characters right away. Makes me feel so welcome and enjoyable paying for this game. Maybe instead of posting stuff like "I can't say I'm going to give a shit until there's at least one Binding " is exactly why the Storyplotters have decided to direct their attentions elsewhere?

                            You'd think that they'll get right on that, seeing as how you obviously stimulate all RP regarding, right? /sarcasm off


                            Originally posted by Lucus View Post

                            sounds like someone got pwned in the face and doesn't want to deal with it IC.


                            - Lin
                            Oh, don't get me wrong. I expected Lirc to get pwned in the face. It happens to all younger-ish characters. It's how he was pwned that made me a bit irritated.
                            Last edited by Lircau; 08-03-2008, 06:37 PM. Reason: Lucus's hilarious comment-

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Lircau View Post
                              And by the way, thanks to all who assumed I'm one of the 99% of hopefuls who find something hard and then leave or delete their characters right away. Makes me feel so welcome and enjoyable paying for this game. Maybe instead of posting stuff like "I can't say I'm going to give a shit until there's at least one Binding " is exactly why the Storyplotters have decided to direct their attentions elsewhere?
                              The StoryPlotters have not devoted their attention elsewhere. I spent last evening coding spells for the new Sorcery system, which I've spent the last year or so coding myself. The game has been running more than a little short on Coders (something that is being corrected with a new batch of staffers just starting to get set-up)... but coding an entirely new system from the ground up takes time. We could cast Serista, I suppose, but she's be dealing with a broken, limited, sorcery system that lets you make people sneeze, if you are really good.

                              I've purposely not re-cast Serista because the new system wasn't done. The right decision? Maybe, maybe not. Personally, I'd rather train a new Serista on the new system rather than the old system and then the new system.

                              What's left in the recoding? Building all the spells... and tripling the number of them, basically. Coding the binding. And then testing the hell out of it.

                              How long will that take? Longer than I'd like.

                              StoryPlotter Geist
                              geist@marrach.skotos.net

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