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Downtimes: June 24 - July 2nd

We've got another batch of shutdowns coming in late June and early July, so that the machines can be repaired for the newest bug, the ZombieLoad CPU bug.

In general, the Genesis games (Grendel, TEC, TEC-Test) all have reboots scheduled for the absolute middle of the night, so I'll be taking each down the previous evening at midnight and bringing them back up the next morning at 9am.

The SkotOS games have always been more robust about reboots, so we'll let them reboot on their own, though there's some chance for an ~2 hour data loss. In any case, I'll be checking them after the 2-hour window when I can, though Marrach has a middle-of-the-night reboot, so that'll be the next morning.

The UserDB and Web reboots will cause some downtime for the entire site, but again they will hopefully come up cleanly.

GENESIS:

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Marriage Rules and Guidelines - 2016

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  • Marriage Rules and Guidelines - 2016

    Hello again!!!

    We have an exciting new batch of rules for how marriages will work! Yay, exciting!!

    Effective as of this posting, the new rules are as follows;

    1.) The two characters getting married must be of the same loyalty. IC the expectation is that the woman will change to the loyalty of the man. This is not enforced on an OOC level, but it IS encouraged through....

    2.) WOMEN (and their respective Houses) will have the option to negotiate a "bride price" and a "land swap". What does this mean? Here is an example. Suzy is a Bisclavret dame and Johnny is a Rinaldi knight. They have to be the same loyalty. So Suzy becomes a Rinaldi freedman. But if they get married...uh oh Johnny will get demoted. UNLESS they negotiate with the Bisc and agree on a bride price (this bisc are, after all, losing a ranked member of their group and so they should probably get something for that, right?) and swap Suzy's bisc land for Rin land. Now both Suzy and Johnny are Rinaldi knight rank and they both get a fancy promotion! This is only an option available to women. Men are heirs to hereditary lands...you can't just take your great grand pappy's land and chuck it away!!

    3.) Get married, yay! You find a priest and pay whatever you need to to the Church, get your certificate and tadah! You're married. Now it is time to figure out marriage promotions. We will still be using the same schematics for promotions and demotions (same class, ome promotion each, one class apart, the lower gets one promotion, the other stays the same, two classes apart, lower gets a promotion and the higher may or may not get a demotion, et cetera.) The change now is this; promotions will be calculated according to the ranks held by each party within their chosen loyalties. Demotions will be calculated based on highest rank held regardless of which loyalty that rank belongs to.

    4.) Once you get married, your loyalty will be "locked in". This means that once you get married, the loyalty at time of marriage will be your loyalty forever. Marriage is a big thing, yo. In very very rare situations, staff will make an exception if you can really prove why you should change loyalty, but the new norm
    is you get married, your loyalty is locked in place. There will be a four week grace period for everyone who is currently married to decide on a loyalty and then we will be locking it in.

    5.) As of the time of this posting, all marriages are permanent with one and only one exception. If the character deletes, the marriage can be dissolved. Otherwise, all marriages are now permanent. If the PC still exists, even if they have not played in 15 and a half years, you're still married. You can fall out of love, see other people, live separately, but regardless of how you play it, you are still married.

    Hope this makes sense!

    And remember, have funnnnnn!

    XO
    ~Tops

  • #2
    Thanks for the update. This is an excellent way of doing things and I like it alot.
    Sir Trevyn Adalhard
    Knight of the Doloreaux
    Ambassador of the Doloreaux Embassy

    Comment


    • #3
      How does this work for underworld folk and marriage loyalty?

      Comment


      • #4
        I will answer your question with a question;

        Someone loyal to and working for the underbelly of society....are they really the type who are going to be seeking a formal marriage sanctioned by an official of the church? Or are they going to be the type to content themselves with a common law marriage not bound by the systems and rules of the church?

        Comment


        • #5
          Then for the sake of discussion. What about guild council, constabulary and church people. They might want a real wedding but not be very political and not care about loyalties.
          Liguria Trading
          specializes in the trade of rare and valuable goods of the highest quality;
          nationally and internationally.

          Comment


          • #6
            And on a similar vein. Why would commoners who just work a job for a house be tied into a lifelong loyalty just because they fall in love, want to do the right thing so they don't live in sin and get married?

            For nobles (Gentry and upwards really) things are obviously an entire other thing, even if forced lifelong loyalty is stretching it IMHO, as there are situations where that can change or be broken due to RP, circumstances and plots.
            Liguria Trading
            specializes in the trade of rare and valuable goods of the highest quality;
            nationally and internationally.

            Comment


            • #7
              Good questions all around!

              Originally posted by Lady Antonia View Post
              And on a similar vein. Why would commoners who just work a job for a house be tied into a lifelong loyalty just because they fall in love, want to do the right thing so they don't live in sin and get married?

              For nobles (Gentry and upwards really) things are obviously an entire other thing, even if forced lifelong loyalty is stretching it IMHO, as there are situations where that can change or be broken due to RP, circumstances and plots.
              The way I see it, commoners don't stay commoners very long when they are working for a house. Even if we were to say "okay, this rule only applies to gentry and above" then it's still going to be an issue once the PCs earn a few ranks. This way, players have to really think about consequences of their decisions especially if they have sworn loyalty to a house. It also encourages them to get others (their houses) involved when trying to decide what to do.

              And as mentioned, there will be exceptions to this rule. If you feel your RP follows a certain path where it makes sense for loyalty to change, we can talk about it. I don't imagine this will be the case too often.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, this does sound interesting, but I have a bit of a personal opinion anytime you mix an IG thing such as marriage between characters with an OOC mechanic like actual loyalty, as opposed to what you might say In Game your character's loyalty is. So granted, this might just be me, but this is kind of how I look at it. In my opinion, this could actually detract from roleplay and be a detriment to some ideas. For example, as was mentioned about Underworld I don't think you're looking at the whole picture. If, for example, you are a member of the Underworld whom has worked their way into a noble house (or even a spy from another house that has worked his way into a different house), essentially this means you have to actually either forsake your old loyalties, or you can't get married. As I said, possibly just me, but I don't really think the whole mixing of IG and OOC things is a good thing. I suppose this also applies to the whole 'character being deleted' part of marriages. Just curious as to why the changes that seem to be mixing the mechanics and the story in ways that really don't make a lot of sense, at least to myself?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by HereIam! View Post
                  Well, this does sound interesting, but I have a bit of a personal opinion anytime you mix an IG thing such as marriage between characters with an OOC mechanic like actual loyalty, as opposed to what you might say In Game your character's loyalty is. So granted, this might just be me, but this is kind of how I look at it. In my opinion, this could actually detract from roleplay and be a detriment to some ideas. For example, as was mentioned about Underworld I don't think you're looking at the whole picture. If, for example, you are a member of the Underworld whom has worked their way into a noble house (or even a spy from another house that has worked his way into a different house), essentially this means you have to actually either forsake your old loyalties, or you can't get married. As I said, possibly just me, but I don't really think the whole mixing of IG and OOC things is a good thing. I suppose this also applies to the whole 'character being deleted' part of marriages. Just curious as to why the changes that seem to be mixing the mechanics and the story in ways that really don't make a lot of sense, at least to myself?
                  Hi! I believe this falls under the "potential exception" category and not at all what I would consider "the norm." The norm (as dictated by the last year or so) have been rushed/spur of the moment marriages with little thought into what is considered a proper church sanctioned marriaged (no idea of foreverness, no following of the etiquette which we have posted numerous times) nor have house members included their leaders in the process when it would be reasonable to do so. These processes are not meant to be a detriment to RP but encourage RP where people tend to skip over it completely. The number one complaint we have heard from players (and those who try the game and don't stick around) is that players don't seem to want to RP within the theme of the game.

                  I also can't tell you how many issues we have had with people rushing into marriage, then one of the players stop playing, character is assumed dead/declared dead and then they suddenly come back as if nothing is wrong. It's awkward and messy and takes up a lot of our time to sort out.

                  I hope this answers some of your concern. Again, if anyone has a story going on that they feel would be an exception, assist and we can chat about it.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I know one of those fast marriages is Antonia's while she was in prison.
                    That marriage was not done out of ooc ignorance but for full IC reasons.

                    Antonia seriously thought she would be executed at the trial and was deadly scared of facing it alone. So marry the man she had been with for the last several months before it was too late. And in retrospect there was the aspect of a gentry becoming knight for the trial and getting the trial by peers instead of commoner.

                    So. This was on purpose and when I learned Antonia wouldn't be killed, I fully expected IC repercussions but nobody cared.

                    This is see as a lack of educating players and not really a game system thing.

                    You have Rhiannon who got heavily pregnant outside of wedlock and wasn't shipped away nor married the moment it was found out. This I find to be much bigger of an issue than a quick desperate marriage, and following disappearance of the husband.

                    I guess my point is that I don't have much of a point, except a hope that all these changes didn't happen because of one amazing and extremely unusual story that made a fast wedding happen.

                    There is some feeling of punishing players in this if the one who's left behind is forced to break social convention and live in sin just because the player of the spouse suddenly leaves the game for a long time without anyone knowing if they come back.
                    Liguria Trading
                    specializes in the trade of rare and valuable goods of the highest quality;
                    nationally and internationally.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lady Antonia View Post
                      I guess my point is that I don't have much of a point, except a hope that all these changes didn't happen because of one amazing and extremely unusual story that made a fast wedding happen.

                      There is some feeling of punishing players in this if the one who's left behind is forced to break social convention and live in sin just because the player of the spouse suddenly leaves the game for a long time without anyone knowing if they come back.
                      I promise the decision wasn't based on any one event that happened. I also understand that players sometimes have their characters do things in an unconventional way because it does create stories even if it makes their characters look bad. This is great and we applaud it.

                      The problem we have been having are the quickie weddings which are becoming more and more common. Avo A meets Dolo B and a week later they proclaim love and get married. Everyone cheers for the happy lovebirds and they live happily ever after (even though the Avo and Dolo are known for hating each other, and this interesting dynamic has seemingly been ignored/forgotten). Then behind the scenes, we get an assist "Hey, so what does this mean for our ranks now??" and I'm sitting here wondering "Couldn't you have looked into this before getting married?" We decided for the sake of our own sanity to enforce the above rules so the burden is not put on us after the fact to figure it out. If characters from different loyalties want to get married, we want you to think about what this means for your respective groups. Would they actually support the union? If not, what can you do to gain enough favor that they would support it? It's an obstacle but can be a fun one.

                      Regarding disappearing spouses: I feel like if these characters had followed the actual courtship guidelines, maybe they wouldn't be in the predicament where the spouse abandons them after a month. We just want people to take marriage more seriously and understand what it means. If you go the unconventional route for the sake of story, that's fine and it does not make you a bad roleplayer AT ALL. Just know you are essentially stuck in that marriage until one of you deletes. I can see where this would be a bummer for some but on the other hand, it makes the act of getting married more sacred and special.


                      I fully expected IC repercussions but nobody cared.
                      I found this interesting. We had discussions with some players recently about theme and some expressed disappointment that they can't play out repercussions toward characters the way they would like because there is this OOC pressure to not be mean. Maybe that's why you didn't experience the repercussions you expected with Antonia. We don't want players to feel bad for having their characters roleplay reasonably or feel like it's pointless because there are no repercussions for being a social deviant. Kind of off topic but wanted to throw that in there

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Lady Antonia View Post
                        You have Rhiannon who got heavily pregnant outside of wedlock and wasn't shipped away nor married the moment it was found out. This I find to be much bigger of an issue than a quick desperate marriage, and following disappearance of the husband.


                        Since Roo has explained that the concern does not lie with pregnancy outside of wedlock but with marriages taking place without forethought of IC consequences I feel the need to point out that nothing about Adam and Anne's pregnancy/marriage has been quick. Adam and Anne were not married until very recently, "justified" by whatever IC reasons we posed. We roleplayed according to our character's personalities and environment, as did everyone else who came into contact with Adam and Anne. To assume there were no IC consequences isn't exactly correct. I also want to note that ICO staff pre-approve pregnancy. I have a feeling that if two members of different Houses assisted with a pregnancy request, especially unmarried members, staff would probably offer a bit of guidance on the situation before yaying or naying.

                        That being said, I think this is an interesting additive for the game. It brings a more political view to marriages which can be interesting since arranged marriages and so on aren't common in this day in age so as something we are not used to seeing, it has potential to create very engaging and fun RP. It seems to be a resourceful way to utilize loyalties and business-like marriage. I, for one, am interested to see how this pans out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          A quick question. Isn't pregnancy outside of wedlock much worse for a noble than a quick marriage?
                          Liguria Trading
                          specializes in the trade of rare and valuable goods of the highest quality;
                          nationally and internationally.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Lady Antonia View Post
                            A quick question. Isn't pregnancy outside of wedlock much worse for a noble than a quick marriage?
                            I'm pretty positive that isn't the point of this thread. It might be more appropriate to file an assist so we aren't confusing the reason why this particular thread was started.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Pregnancy out of wedlock surely is frowned upon but I can also say there is A LOT of behavior happening that SHOULD be frowned up but isn't. We could list those things out in detail but I would prefer it be in a different thread if we really want to go there (and I have no issues with going there because it might be a beneficial discussion).

                              Again, I want to stress that it's not bad roleplay to get pregnant out of wedlock or have a quick wedding or partake in other inappropriate behavior because everyone is entitled to tell the story they want to tell, as long as they think about the story they are telling and accept the potential repercussions that could happen. We have relied on characters thus far to enforce repercussions ICly and that can be a heavy burden to shoulder when there is a mentality that if you enforce repercussions it means you are being mean (and it's also difficult to enforce repercussions when power is bluebooked and no one HAS to listen to you). All I can say about that topic is that we ARE working on it to try and be more involved so the burden doesn't fall solely on the players.

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