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How to get promoted

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  • How to get promoted

    For many players, getting their characters promoted in Ironclaw Online is a major goal.

    Promotions work via an automated system, which is driven by player actions.

    How do you check your current ranks and status?
    Type: @rank

    That will list:
    - Which group you are loyal to
    - Any status you have with the various groups (you can have status with multiple groups)

    What do you need to do to get promoted?
    Type: @rank list

    That will list all potential promotions, and what is needed to be promoted.
    It will highlight any progress you've made towards that goal.

    If you have met all the requirements for a promotion, it will also ask if you want to accept the promotion. You can then select the promotion you want, and your character will gain the promotion.

    When you accept a promotion, your progress is cleared for *all* promotions. That means, if you had enough influence to accept an Avoirdupois promotion or a Rinaldi promotion, regardless of which you chose, your influence is reset to 0 for all groups.

    How do I get influence points?
    There are various ways to get influence points, including:
    - PCs can use the @favor and @disfavor commands. If they have favoured your PC, there is a chance that you will receive 1 point of influence that week from them. You will receive influence in the group that they are loyal to.
    - Some events or in-game actions can give and take influence points
    - Staff can give and take influence points based on PC's participations in a plot or other roleplay

    How do I get a patron?
    Type: @patron

    That will list who your patron is (if you have one), and who your proteges are (if you've sponsored them)

    To offer to become a patron, type: @patron PC_NAME
    e.g. @patron azrael
    - The character must be in the same room as your PC when you make the offer
    - They can accept or reject the offer

    What does a patron do?
    - Patrons are needed for certain promotions
    - If you get promoted, your patron is rewarded with influence points
    - If your patron gets promoted, you are rewarded with influence points
    - Patrons may have additional influence with certain events or plots
    - If you get demoted, your patron may lose influence points, and might even lose rank!

    How do I set my loyalty?
    There are cloaks, badges, armbands and other items that display a character's loyalty. If your PC wears one of those items, you will be told that wearing the item will set your character's loyalty. If you don't remove the item, your PC will be set as loyal to the appropriate group.

    What about demotion?
    PCs may start a petition to demote other PCs. The PC starting the petition will need at least a little rank or some influence points with the appropriate group. Demotion petitions may be purchased from the NPC Guild Administrator.

    What were those words you mentioned?
    Rank or Status - how high ranked you are with any given group.
    Influence points - Points of influence are earned with the various groups
    @favor and @disfavor - Commands that can be used to indicate that you want to give or take influence points from another PC
    Loyalty - The group that your PC has declared they are loyal to
    Patron - Another character who is helping your PC progress. Similar to a sponsor.
    Protege - The opposite of a patron - a PC that you are helping
    Last edited by SHAzrael; 04-07-2016, 01:42 AM.
    Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

  • #2
    Would it be possible for favor tokens to be incorporated into this system some how?

    for example... 1 token = x influence point(s) with a House
    Master Fips Rose

    Comment


    • #3
      Short answer:
      No, sorry!

      Longer answer:
      Favour tokens are given out by PCs to other PCs. They are given when a house leader feels that their house owes a favour to the other PC.

      In theory, the other PC can use the favour token like an IOU, to ask a member of that house to do them a favour in return.

      Since favour tokens are unlimited, and are created when a player wants their PC's house to owe a favour, it's not something that we can build into the promotion system. If we did, either players could generate a million tokens and get hugely easy promotions for all their friends, or we'd have to limit the tokens to keep them rare - and then players would be likely to hoard them for promotions, rather than using them for RPed favours.

      Even if we coded in something so they could only a set number could be given out by influential PCs, we'd need to take into account possible alt trading and whatnot.

      So... possibly - but to make it work we'd have to do a lot of rewriting of how they work, and change our ideas about what they represent, and probably collect all the tokens that already exist and start fresh.
      Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

      Comment


      • #4
        quick question

        This system sounds interesting and has more variety then in the past. However, I need some clarification.

        When you become a baron in a house is that the furthest you can go in game currently since I don't believe there is anyone who could patron anything higher than that. Which is understandable, don't want too many if any high nobility around.

        If you wanted to gain favor in the underworld is there any path currently to do so? I believe this is new and not many will have underworld rank to patron or gain favor with. If you want bisclavret favor you have a specific place to go for it. I understand that there can't be any such easily accessible 'underworld manor' to go to because then constables would get in the way. If you ask staff for an underworld plot, would that be 1, feasible and 2 would that be a way gain favor in the underworld?

        My last question is about the guild council. I am really confused how this works. I was told by Azrael that to sit on the guild council you HAVE to be a commoner and to gain rank in the council means you are a commoner with the power of the associated noble rank (ie master/mistress = knight). So how does one gain favor in the guild council because it is comprised of reps from the houses and reps from all the different guilds. And once you hit Master like Fips you can't rise in rank where nobles can rise two more levels currently in game.

        I'm done rambling and I look forward to the clarification.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by side effect View Post
          When you become a baron in a house is that the furthest you can go in game currently since I don't believe there is anyone who could patron anything higher than that. Which is understandable, don't want too many if any high nobility around.
          Actually, with the current set up you can earn up to the rank of Duke. Which is one step below the various Kings & the Don.

          Some promotions will require a higher ranked patron - but many of them can be earned without a patron. For example, if you want to become a Rinaldi yeoman, it costs 2 influence if you have a higher ranked Rinaldi patron, but you can also earn it for 6 influence without a patron. It's certainly more expensive if you don't have a patron, but still possible.

          Some promotions always require a patron - for example, any promotions for the Rinaldi military require a higher-ranked Rinaldi patron.

          Originally posted by side effect View Post
          If you wanted to gain favor in the underworld is there any path currently to do so? I believe this is new and not many will have underworld rank to patron or gain favor with.
          There will be, but we're still figuring out the details.

          For now, there are underworld association armbands, which can be worn to set loyalty towards the underworld - and then you can earn favour in the underworld through the PCs who are loyal to the underworld favouring or disfavoring you.

          In the future, if we find a better way, this might change.

          I haven't enabled promotions for the underworld ranks just yet, but I hope to do that in the next few days.

          Originally posted by side effect View Post
          If you want bisclavret favor you have a specific place to go for it. I understand that there can't be any such easily accessible 'underworld manor' to go to because then constables would get in the way. If you ask staff for an underworld plot, would that be 1, feasible and 2 would that be a way gain favor in the underworld?
          1. Totally feasible. Depending on what you're asking for, it might cost tokens or storypoints, as for other plots.
          2. Perhaps - staff can grant favour with the different groups based on the actions PCs take during plots. So there is no reason not to do so with underworld favour.

          HOWEVER, asking for a plot like "My PC wants to rob a bank" and then an outcome of "So I get favour" isn't likely to be how we'll handle it. The plots would need to involve other players in the gameworld, and staff wouldn't guarantee what the outcomes out be.

          Originally posted by side effect View Post
          My last question is about the guild council. I am really confused how this works. I was told by Azrael that to sit on the guild council you HAVE to be a commoner and to gain rank in the council means you are a commoner with the power of the associated noble rank (ie master/mistress = knight).
          Yep! So you could earn yourself ranks equivalent to knights and lords, but they would have other titles (like pontiff, or master), and your PC would still be a commoner. Just an influential commoner, with the same level of influence as a knight or lord.

          I haven't enabled promotions for the council ranks just yet, but I hope to do that in the next few days.

          Originally posted by side effect View Post
          So how does one gain favor in the guild council because it is comprised of reps from the houses and reps from all the different guilds.
          The same was as for houses! Find someone who's loyal to the council, and convince them to @favour you, so you can get council influence. You will be able to check "@rank list" to see what is needed.

          Originally posted by side effect View Post
          And once you hit Master like Fips you can't rise in rank where nobles can rise two more levels currently in game.
          Council promotions will go all the way up to a rank equivalent to a Duke. There's still plenty of possible promotions for Fips.
          Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SHAzrael View Post
            Yep! So you could earn yourself ranks equivalent to knights and lords, but they would have other titles (like pontiff, or master), and your PC would still be a commoner. Just an influential commoner, with the same level of influence as a knight or lord.
            I think the best way to describe this is that a Guild Council knight is of an equal level to other knights loyal to Houses (or the church and constabulary), but they would not have been formally knighted during a ceremony, which members of a House would almost certainly undertake (if even bluebooked)
            Master Fips Rose

            Comment


            • #7
              Thank you for responding to my questions.

              I look forward to seeing how this works in game and what it will mean for rp. I'm guessing that you can have disfavor with one group but favor with another which is really cool. Because a Avoirdupois knight would possible WANT disfavor from the Doloreaux and vic versa but yet still have positive favor with their own house and maybe the church. So this might result with people feeling more able to stop being 'friends' with everyone so they can gain favor.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by side effect View Post
                Thank you for responding to my questions.

                I look forward to seeing how this works in game and what it will mean for rp. I'm guessing that you can have disfavor with one group but favor with another which is really cool. Because a Avoirdupois knight would possible WANT disfavor from the Doloreaux and vic versa but yet still have positive favor with their own house and maybe the church. So this might result with people feeling more able to stop being 'friends' with everyone so they can gain favor.
                That's not what i'm reading. If anyone can disfavor you, you can still lose rank with your own house. The major problem with the previous system of @favor and @disfavor is people doing it over minor things or greatly exaggerated things because they dont like the character. People are more willing to lash out at someone that makes them mad and @disfavor, then they are to @favor doing things right.

                I'm still worried for my characters that want to advance because of these ooc motivations inherent in @favor. An idea world people wouldn't do it, keep their disfavors to themselves when its not -really- that bad. Or only do it to characters they don't already like and ignore it when their 'friends' do it.

                But it happened, -a lot-. Go talk to the beggars about some of the older characters, 90% of it is BS disfavors, or blown out of proportion and worded in a way to be SO WRONG, but no way to remove it or dispute it.

                It did help a lot when high characters were protected from the rabble by right of their station, but from what I've read, that protection is gone again. That severely limits my desire to let characters that want to climb the social rank system interact with the commoners that would not like them. It's RP inhibiting for me. Maybe not to everyone, but definitely for me. I've had a character fall victim to the mindset, I don't want my higher ones to suffer the same or a worse fate. Not fun for me, because there's nothing that can be done to stop the downward spiral.

                Because of "popularity" and how much people like your character, you can lose all rank, with no chance of getting it back from those people, unlike people who have to suffer a -temporary- loss of rank. And still those people complain enough that they don't lose as much, -temporarily-. Its worse when you don't have the temporary attached to it.

                So, until protections are back in place, still going to limit the risks i am willing to take, to avoid unfair and unrealistic responses.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by side effect View Post
                  I'm guessing that you can have disfavor with one group but favor with another which is really cool. Because a Avoirdupois knight would possible WANT disfavor from the Doloreaux and vic versa but yet still have positive favor with their own house and maybe the church. So this might result with people feeling more able to stop being 'friends' with everyone so they can gain favor.
                  Exactly!

                  There's no disadvantage for an Avoirdupois knight to have favour with the Doloreaux, so the system won't force anyone to make enemies. But if an Avoirdupois knight isn't trying to get rank with the Doloreaux, then they don't need to worry about disfavour from the Doloreaux.

                  Originally posted by Aptaliesin View Post
                  That's not what i'm reading. If anyone can disfavor you, you can still lose rank with your own house.
                  Anyone can disfavour you, but you gain and lose rank from the group that the person disfavoring you is from.

                  So if someone loyal to the Rinaldi disfavors you, you might lose some Rinaldi favor.

                  If you are a Doloreaux supporter, and aren't trying to gain any Rinaldi status, you might not care about that disfavor.

                  Originally posted by Aptaliesin View Post
                  The major problem with the previous system of @favor and @disfavor is people doing it over minor things or greatly exaggerated things because they dont like the character. People are more willing to lash out at someone that makes them mad and @disfavor, then they are to @favor doing things right.
                  Favor and disfavor is limited to only giving or taking 1 point of influence each week per PC. So even if it's only from something minor, that's still only 1 point gained or lost.

                  I encourage players to use the @favor & @disfavor commands regularly - even over minor things. I'd rather see more activity and actions than less.

                  I'd also encourage players to try and be positive, and use the @favor command as often, or more often, than the @disfavor command - although there will be some game events where disfavor is given more than favour, try to generally keep your PCs favouring positive.

                  Why? Partly for OOC reasons - if we give more disfavor than favor, nobody will get promoted, and that's boring. Partly for IC reasons - if you give more favor than disfavor - since the favor is for your group, that makes the other PCs more likely to get a promotion with your group. The more PCs that get promotions with your group - even if they weren't loyal to your group to start with, the more likely they'll be positive and want to RP with your group, and there will be more activity for supporters of that house. Also, the more PCs get promoted with your group, the easier it'll be for you to find a patron, or to get favor from them in return.

                  Originally posted by Aptaliesin View Post
                  I'm still worried for my characters that want to advance because of these ooc motivations inherent in @favor. An idea world people wouldn't do it, keep their disfavors to themselves when its not -really- that bad. Or only do it to characters they don't already like and ignore it when their 'friends' do it.
                  There is always going to be an issue - in the real world, and in the game - where people ignore bad behaviour from their friends that they wouldn't ignore from other people.

                  That is, unfortunately, just one of the costs of playing a social game. People are more likely to support their friends in social situations, and that carries through to social games.

                  We try to build game systems to be as objective as possible, but we can't control the choices players make. And we're not trying to.

                  Originally posted by Aptaliesin View Post
                  It did help a lot when high characters were protected from the rabble by right of their station, but from what I've read, that protection is gone again. That severely limits my desire to let characters that want to climb the social rank system interact with the commoners that would not like them. It's RP inhibiting for me. Maybe not to everyone, but definitely for me. I've had a character fall victim to the mindset, I don't want my higher ones to suffer the same or a worse fate. Not fun for me, because there's nothing that can be done to stop the downward spiral.
                  All I can suggest is that you pick one of these three choices:
                  1. Avoid this part of the game. Don't interact with PCs that might feel negative to you. That will be inhibiting.
                  2. Embrace this part of the game. Interact with PCs, whether they feel negative or positively towards you. Influence them to change their opinions towards you. Disregard their dislike towards you. (If they aren't loyal to your group, who cares if they disfavor you?) Disfavor them in return. If they're loyal to your group, and you're higher ranked than them, then your favor and disfavor counts for more than theirs does - so the higher ranked PCs still hold the better position.
                  3. Don't chase promotions. Play the game, RP with whoever you won't, and don't worry if you get disfavoured and don't get promoted. There's plenty more to the game than just promotions.

                  That's about all I can say. It's a social game, it's intended to have both risk and rewards. If you're not willing to take the risk, you won't benefit with the reward.

                  Originally posted by Aptaliesin View Post
                  Because of "popularity" and how much people like your character, you can lose all rank, with no chance of getting it back from those people, unlike people who have to suffer a -temporary- loss of rank. And still those people complain enough that they don't lose as much, -temporarily-. Its worse when you don't have the temporary attached to it.
                  Since you can always earn a promotion, even after a demotion - any loss of rank is temporary.

                  Originally posted by Aptaliesin View Post
                  So, until protections are back in place, still going to limit the risks i am willing to take, to avoid unfair and unrealistic responses.
                  From a game design standpoint, character rank is (and should be) a fluctuating value that can both go up and down. The game is generally biased towards promotions, but there is never a guarantee that a particular PC won't be demoted.

                  There are other values in the game that don't drop - such as career or skill levels.

                  You should do whatever you feel gives you the most fun with your characters, whether that involves avoiding specific PCs and RP, or whether it involves chasing other measures of success - like trying to be the highest skilled PC in a particular area - instead of rank.
                  Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I have a few more questions and then I will stop bugging you.

                    Can a patron still retract their patronage of their protege? I ask because getting promotions with several groups will make one or both dislike you for gain favor with someone they don't like.

                    For example you gain a promotion from the avoirdupois and later the doloreaux. One or both might decide that you are a spy and no longer favor you. (I only use avoirdupois and doloreaux because they are known enemies that barely get along on a good day.)

                    So would they have to disfavor the protege until they lose rank or could they just pull their patronage to get a more intimidate result.

                    You mentioned influence points here and there. Is there a way to check how much influence points you have and is it the same thing as the influence you use in the crime system?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by side effect View Post
                      I have a few more questions and then I will stop bugging you.

                      Can a patron still retract their patronage of their protege?
                      Right now, there is no coded command to remove patronage - but I don't see any reason why a patron couldn't retract their patronage.

                      I'll code that in, and until that happens you can just @assist if you want to retract your patronage.

                      EDIT: Patrons can now remove their patronage by using a demotion petition, and demoting their protege. An easier option is to tell your protege to find a new patron, and only call for the demotion if they won't.
                      This is now the way to remove proteges ICly, rather than @assisting.

                      Originally posted by side effect View Post
                      I ask because getting promotions with several groups will make one or both dislike you for gain favor with someone they don't like.
                      The system doesn't punish PCs for gaining status with several groups. It is up to the individual RP of each PC as to whether they care if someone holds status with multiple groups.

                      Since PCs have a cloak that displays their loyalty, it's not necessarily a betrayal to have rank with another group - it just means that other group also likes the PC.

                      Originally posted by side effect View Post
                      For example you gain a promotion from the avoirdupois and later the doloreaux. One or both might decide that you are a spy and no longer favor you. (I only use avoirdupois and doloreaux because they are known enemies that barely get along on a good day.)
                      Exactly!
                      Or they might decided that, since you are in favour with both groups, you are the perfect diplomat and negotiator.
                      Or they might decide that even if you aren't a spy, you should be

                      Originally posted by side effect View Post
                      So would they have to disfavor the protege until they lose rank or could they just pull their patronage to get a more intimidate result.
                      You could pull your patronage, but that won't give an immediate result. A patron isn't quite the same as a sponsor - you need them to get the some rank increases, but after that point you don't need to keep them as your patron.

                      Originally posted by side effect View Post
                      You mentioned influence points here and there. Is there a way to check how much influence points you have and is it the same thing as the influence you use in the crime system?
                      You can check by typing @rank list
                      That will show your progress towards the various possible promotions, including how many influence points you've gained towards it.

                      It's not the same as the points used in the crime system (but in the future we might be combining them maybe...)
                      Last edited by SHAzrael; 04-07-2016, 01:52 AM.
                      Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SHAzrael View Post
                        I haven't enabled promotions for the council ranks just yet, but I hope to do that in the next few days.
                        Promotions are now enabled for all NPC groups.

                        That includes:
                        - Noble houses
                        - Noble house militaries
                        - Council
                        - Church
                        - Constables
                        - Underworld
                        Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          All right, I have some questions: One is immediately relevant and one is just curiousity.

                          1) Suppose that my character, a Rinaldi viscountess, wants rank in another group (we assume the Cheeseheads as a way of saying no-one-in-particular). It becomes easier for her to get a Cheesehead promotion, if she gets a Cheesehead patron. That patron needs to outrank her. However, the patron only needs to outrank her in the Cheeseheads, right? She doesn't have to find a Cheesehead with a rank higher than the Cheesehead analogue to viscount? (Which, I believe, is Grand Camembert, but that is neither here or there).

                          2) Suppose that I blew a huge load of storypoints on making an underworld character with high rank. Is it possible to start, not as a noble, but as a high-ranking underworlder?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Fina View Post
                            All right, I have some questions: One is immediately relevant and one is just curiousity.

                            1) Suppose that my character, a Rinaldi viscountess, wants rank in another group (we assume the Cheeseheads as a way of saying no-one-in-particular). It becomes easier for her to get a Cheesehead promotion, if she gets a Cheesehead patron. That patron needs to outrank her. However, the patron only needs to outrank her in the Cheeseheads, right?
                            Right. They need to outrank the rank that she's after. So if she wants to become a Cheesehead Yeoman, the patron must be a Cheesehead Burgher or higher.

                            Originally posted by Fina View Post
                            She doesn't have to find a Cheesehead with a rank higher than the Cheesehead analogue to viscount?
                            Nope!

                            Originally posted by Fina View Post
                            (Which, I believe, is Grand Camembert, but that is neither here or there).
                            I'm now fighting hard to resist the urge to add Grand Camembert to the game.

                            Originally posted by Fina View Post
                            2) Suppose that I blew a huge load of storypoints on making an underworld character with high rank. Is it possible to start, not as a noble, but as a high-ranking underworlder?
                            We don't specifically offer that option. We would have to discuss it with the staff team. But in principle, I don't see why not.

                            In practice, the underworld status is new, and I wouldn't advise spending a lot of storypoints on it at the moment. Let us work at it, see how promotions and the like are working, and see what changes (if any) we make. I wouldn't want someone spending a lot of points on something, to discover that we then make changes that substantially change what they bought.
                            Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              All righty-dighty, I have more questions, this time with some stuff related to how favor and disfavor works:

                              1) Can you have multiple patrons?

                              For example, suppose that Serafina hires Handmaiden and patrons said her. That Handmaiden also has an aide. Serafina offers to patron the aide as well. But can both Serafina AND Serafina's Handmaiden serve as patrons for the aide?


                              2) I am not entirely sure how favor and disfavor works. I read in the thread that favoring and disfavoring costs influence points. Serafina has been favoring and disfavoring away, but I haven't seen her influence fall as a consequence. Is it only tallied after a week? And if Serafina has used all her influence after that week, will it mean that can't use influence effectively after that week has passed, but must wait until the next one?


                              3) Are the influence points used in favor and disfavor the same as those you use to influence trials? Ie. if Serafina spends all her influence on favor and disfavor, will she be powerless to influence trials with influence points? And conversely, if she spends all her influence points on a trial, will her favor and disfavor be useless? If they're NOT the same, how quickly do the trial influence points replenish?


                              4) If some favors or disfavors are absolutely ridiculous, say Serafina disfavoring a Baron for not kneeling and kissing her feet, can they be voided?


                              5) Is it true that hosting events earns you influence? If so, with which group?
                              Last edited by Fina; 06-29-2015, 03:08 AM. Reason: Forgot a question

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