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  • Social ranks & Titles

    For easier reference.

    A normal starting PC starts at rank 3 (freedman)

    rank - civilian rank name - free military title
    1 - slave
    2 - serf
    3 - freedman
    4 - yeoman - Private
    5 - burgher - Lancepesade
    6 - thane - Lance Corporal
    7 - gentry - Ensign
    8 - armigerous gentry - Lieutenant
    9 - knight/dame - Captain
    10 - baronet/baronetess - Seargent-Major
    11 - baron/baroness - Brigadier
    12 - viscount/viscountess - Major
    13 - count/countess - Marshal
    14 - landgrave - Lieutenant General
    15 - margrave/margravine - Captain General
    15 - marchion/marchioness - Field Marshal
    17 - duke/duchess - High Constable

    And while we're here, how about I give the constable and church ranks too...

    rank - civilian rank name - free military title
    1 - slave
    2 - serf
    3 - freedman - Deputy
    4 - yeoman - Guardsman
    5 - burgher - Sergeant
    6 - thane - Detective
    7 - gentry - Aedile
    8 - armigerous gentry - Sheriff
    9 - knight/dame - Tribune
    10 - baronet/baronetess - Seargent-Major
    11 - baron/baroness - Brigadier
    12 - viscount/viscountess - Major
    13 - count/countess - Marshal
    14 - landgrave - Lieutenant General
    15 - margrave/margravine - Captain General
    15 - marchion/marchioness - Field Marshal
    17 - duke/duchess - High Constable

    rank - civilian rank name - free church title
    1 - slave
    2 - serf
    3 - freedman
    4 - yeoman - Acolyte
    5 - burgher - Brother/Sister
    6 - thane - Pastor
    7 - gentry - Deacon/Father/Mother
    8 - armigerous gentry - Presbyter
    9 - knight/dame - Prelate
    10 - baronet/baronetess - Bishop
    11 - baron/baroness - Exarch
    12 - viscount/viscountess - Vicar
    13 - count/countess - Archbishop
    14 - landgrave
    15 - margrave/margravine - Primate
    15 - marchion/marchioness - Cardinal
    17 - duke/duchess - Patriarch
    StoryBuilder Nyx

  • #2
    Thanks for that Nyx!

    Please note that you only get the free military titles if you're part of a "military guild" (such as the great houses) - you only get the free constable titles if you're part of the constabulary guild, and you only get the free church titles if you're part of a church guild.

    So a woman who's a member of a seamstress guild and is a thane wouldn't be a "Lance-Corporal" - they'd just be a thane.

    But a woman who's a member of, say, the Bisclavret, and is a thene *might* be a "Lance-Corporal" if the Bisclavret want to give that title (probably because she's a member of their guard, or got her rank from military service.)
    Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

    Comment


    • #3
      This is from a mail I received from Azrael, to better clarify social rank versus job titles. If you have any questions, please post below and I'll try to answer them.

      The basic rules are:
      - Civilian titles are given for free with social rank (and are taken away again if they loose that rank) (titles like "Sir" "Esquire" "Lord" etc.) Civilian titles may NOT be bought with storypoints.

      - Constabulary and Church titles are given for free with social rank, but ONLY to people in the right guilds (titles like "Deputy" or "Prelate.") Constabulary and church titles may NOT be bought with storypoints.

      - Military titles are given for free with social rank, but ONLY to people in the right guilds. Anyone can say that their guild is a "military guild" and make use of the titles (but we wouldn't give those titles for free, to, say, someone in the Rainbow Rags guild.) Military titles may NOT be bought with storypoints, however the special title of "Officer" may be bought.

      These free titles are ranks, not job descriptions. While you might be appointed Lieutenant of a Guard by a House, if you aren't the rank of armigerous gentry or higher, you cannot access that title. You can RP doing the job duties of a Lieutenant, but your social status will not allow you the actual rank of Lieutenant. The only exception to this rule is people who had military titles previous to the title system and rules being put into place - those people were grandfather claused in and were able to keep their titles since they paid storypoints for them when it was allowed.
      StoryBuilder Nyx

      Comment


      • #4
        A question for clarification:

        Suppose that I want to create a church character. I make him or her as a normal noble for the normal amount of storypoints.

        But as the character's background, I chose that they were put into the church by their family. As such, they will immediately join the church upon arriving the game and not use their civilian title (esquire/sir/whatever), but get the equivalent church title as soon as they join the Church game-mechanically.

        However, supposedly, they would always have been church and always had the title, even if they didn't have it game-mechanically.

        Would staff accept an stp request for such a character?

        EDIT: I may have posted in a staff only thread. If I have, please accept my apologies and move the post.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Katrina View Post
          A question for clarification:

          Suppose that I want to create a church character. I make him or her as a normal noble for the normal amount of storypoints.

          But as the character's background, I chose that they were put into the church by their family.

          ...

          Would staff accept an stp request for such a character?
          Yes, staff would consider the request.
          It would still need to be approved, as any other request for a starting noble character. But the backstory of being part of the church would certainly be appropriate.

          There may need to be some discussion about details, but I don't see any problem with the concept.
          Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

          Comment


          • #6
            If you're the leader of a house, you can assist to have the title Ambassador or House equivalent added until you lose/leave the position. Similarly, if you run a guild you can assist to have the title Guildmistress/Guildmaster added for free until such a time as you stop leading it - at which point we will remove it from your list of available title options.
            StoryBuilder Nyx

            Comment


            • #7
              What if a military-line character works his way up to the Knight - Captain level of promotions.

              Since he's military-line, he'd get the Captain title. But would he also have the option to go by "Sir" as he's the Knight-level or Knight-equivalent? I can see times (courtly events, social gatherings) when a character might not necessarily wish to go by military title? Especially with so many "Captain" title purchases referring to head-of-ships.
              Brother Savryn


              "To become a vessel of the Great Light and be its gate
              to the world...What purer and more holy goal could there
              be? To become the sacrifice, and through the act of
              abandon serve all." (Le Temoin 7:36)

              Comment


              • #8
                At the moment, no. Following the military path doesn't result in knighthood, nor the title 'Sir'
                Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

                Comment


                • #9
                  I really didn't want to post about this since I didn't want to get pissy or upset anyone, but I may as well now. Adding military ranks to the rank system really ruined so much of how the military worked. Most players had characters of high rank in the military already before it was implimented, well now someone who is Captain of the Guard for a House can't be that anymore because he/she isn't a knight or equal to? Historically your position in the military didn't equate to social rank, the only commanders tended to be knights or higher and they chose their officers based on years of service and experience (if you lived that long). Yes, one could argue the historical point that traditionally a knight was Captain of the Guard, but from the games standpoint, people who were commoners were made Captain and it's stupid that all of the sudden they can't be because of a new OOC system? How are we supposed to RP that, "Hey Kilana (using her since she's Rin Captain), sorry by you lost your position as Captain of the Guard because you're too low in rank sorry we'll have to find a new job for you!". Sorrry I'm getting emotional with this, but this was why I didn't. I also didn't feel there was a point to speak my mind, since it was tossed in the system outright, I don't even remember staff even asking "Hey what do you guys think of this idea?" so yeah I'm frustrated. I really hope I'm not the only one too.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I don't want to get knit-picky about your post, as I can understand where you are coming from, but I think you're maybe confused on a couple of things so wanted to try to see if I could help.

                    Captain of the Guard, while it has the term captain in it, is actually an appointment to a position in the house guard, not a rank in the military.

                    As far as adding the ranks goes, Nyx's first post at the top of this thread from 12/01/2009 had military ranks included listed along with civilian ranks. So it's not something new they just put in, it's been there for at least the 6 years now since the post is done, although they are changing how promotions etc work so that might be what's causing confusion.

                    *hugs to all*

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by kyrthran View Post
                      I really didn't want to post about this since I didn't want to get pissy or upset anyone, but I may as well now.
                      Nobody is upset, but please consider creating a new thread if you want to begin a new discussion or complaint like this, as it seems to be more than just a question relating to the titles.

                      Originally posted by kyrthran View Post
                      Adding military ranks to the rank system really ruined so much of how the military worked.
                      Sorry you feel that way. As HereIAm points out, these ranks have been in place since 2009.

                      Originally posted by kyrthran View Post
                      Most players had characters of high rank in the military already before it was implimented, well now someone who is Captain of the Guard for a House can't be that anymore because he/she isn't a knight or equal to?
                      Do you mean people that had social rank were roleplaying as also having military ranks? With the old promotion system we recorded it as one rating, with the new system we record them separately, so someone can be high ranked as a noble but low ranked in the military, or vice versa.

                      Players were given the choice of which "type" of rank they wanted when we converted the characters across from the old system. If you were given the wrong type, and you'd like it changed, please @assist to let us know.

                      Originally posted by kyrthran View Post
                      Historically your position in the military didn't equate to social rank,
                      Historically, in which country and time period?

                      ... but that doesn't matter too much. Gaining social status and rank is one of the achievement mechanics in this game - just like historically it would be very rare for people to change social class or become a Baron when they were born a commoner... earning (and losing) these ranks is part of the game. Even if it's not historically accurate.

                      Originally posted by kyrthran View Post
                      How are we supposed to RP that, "Hey Kilana (using her since she's Rin Captain), sorry by you lost your position as Captain of the Guard because you're too low in rank sorry we'll have to find a new job for you!"
                      I guess?
                      "Hey Kilana, you're the person managing the Rinaldi guards. Doesn't it suck that nobody has recognized all the good work that you do, and you've only been made a private? The Rinaldi should totally promote you!"
                      ... and then maybe follow that up with @favour kilana 'Kilana holds the Rinaldi guards together, and is critical to their military.
                      ... and then maybe talk to the other Rinaldi about how you feel Kilana should be given a higher rank, and they can also @favour Kilana
                      ... and then Kilana will likely get a promotion, and you can not only RP that Kilana is valued with the Rinaldi guard, but you've also gotten roleplay around helping make that promotion happen, and helping get Kilana's work recognized by the other Rinaldi?

                      I guess, to my mind, figuring out the answer to "How are we supposed to RP that?" is the point of playing the game.

                      Originally posted by kyrthran View Post
                      I don't even remember staff even asking "Hey what do you guys think of this idea?"
                      Although we often ask player's opinions - and players are always welcome to start discussions about the game in the forums or in a private assist - we don't always ask. This game isn't being built by a committee.
                      Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kyrthran View Post
                        Yes, one could argue the historical point that traditionally a knight was Captain of the Guard, but from the games standpoint, people who were commoners were made Captain and it's stupid that all of the sudden they can't be because of a new OOC system? How are we supposed to RP that, "Hey Kilana (using her since she's Rin Captain), sorry by you lost your position as Captain of the Guard because you're too low in rank sorry we'll have to find a new job for you!".

                        I feel like there's been some miscommunication here. Nowhere have I read
                        or seen that a person would be removed from their position within a House
                        as Captain of the guard because they don't have the rank of Captain. The
                        Captain is appointed through roleplay, not through rank. Such as Kilana with
                        the Rinaldi or my character, Mattimeo, with the Avoirdupois. Matt does not
                        have the rank of Knight/Captain but that doesn't affect his position as Captain
                        of the guard.

                        Likewise, just because a person is Captain of the guard does not make them
                        a Captain within the military. Matt controls the training and duties of the
                        guard within the embassy. Once he leaves the walls of said embassy and
                        strikes out on some war time campaign, he is the same as any grunt
                        soldier.

                        So, unless I'm mistaken and have missed a post somewhere, no one is
                        losing their position. The only thing that is affected is the title Captain. I'd
                        never considered getting the title of Captain with Matt being Captain of
                        the guard because his position within the House does not define him. I
                        don't need the word in front of my name to validate my position and I
                        can't think of many that have had the title as guard Captains previously.

                        I hope this clears the air a bit and please feel free to correct me if I'm
                        wrong.


                        Also, just went back and found this in a post by Nyx. So I feel like I'm
                        in the rind mind-set.

                        "These free titles are ranks, not job descriptions. While you might be appointed Lieutenant of a Guard
                        by a House, if you aren't the rank of armigerous gentry or higher, you cannot access that title. You can
                        RP doing the job duties of a Lieutenant, but your social status will not allow you the actual rank of Lieutenant. "


                        "Focus on the small, good things in your life. See them
                        as little fireflies in the darkness surrounding you. Gather them up and put them in a jar and you'll
                        have a nice nightlight to keep the darkness at bay."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Altoholic View Post
                          I feel like there's been some miscommunication here. Nowhere have I read
                          or seen that a person would be removed from their position within a House
                          as Captain of the guard because they don't have the rank of Captain. The
                          Captain is appointed through roleplay, not through rank.
                          Correct! That job is something the players created and managed, and staff are not removing anyone from it.

                          Originally posted by Altoholic View Post
                          Likewise, just because a person is Captain of the guard does not make them
                          a Captain within the military. Matt controls the training and duties of the
                          guard within the embassy. Once he leaves the walls of said embassy and
                          strikes out on some war time campaign, he is the same as any grunt
                          soldier.
                          That's a good way to express the difference
                          Similarly, someone might be the Captain of a ship, but that doesn't make them ranked as Captain in the military.

                          Originally posted by Altoholic View Post
                          The only thing that is affected is the title Captain.
                          Yep. We don't offer the title as a stp purchase to avoid confusion between Captain-as-a-job vs Captain-as-a-military-rank.
                          Mea squints at you, "For a magical nudist he sure is carrying lots of pie."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks for the confirmation Az, I appreciate it!


                            "Focus on the small, good things in your life. See them
                            as little fireflies in the darkness surrounding you. Gather them up and put them in a jar and you'll
                            have a nice nightlight to keep the darkness at bay."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Why do I have two promotions available for the same house?

                              One says rinaldi yeoman, the other says rinaldi private.

                              What's the difference, and does it matter which one I pick?

                              I read the thread but...I can't really tell which is which.

                              My first impression was that the military rank was a perk of the social rank, but seeing them listed as separate promotions has me a bit confused.

                              Comment

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