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A discussion on a future flame-war

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  • A discussion on a future flame-war

    This is a topic that I figured I would talk about since I know down the road people are going to be yelling "NERF! NOT FAIR!" after a few fights with me.

    The issue is Carapace and the damage it blocks. Currently, Carapace blocks ALL damage from ALL weapons. It blocks ALL Claws. It blocks PARTIAL Iron Claw damage and blocks NO Venom or Creeping Crud. You can also include Endure Damage which currently blocks ALL damage from Fire Breath, Cold-Breath, Fireball, and Chain Lightning. It blocks PARTIAL damage from Cold Touch and NO damage from Poison Breath.

    Many warriors recently have switched from the Claw+Iron Claw combo in favor of a Koncentrate + Weapons attack. This has brought to light the fact that Carapace is very good for blocking weapons. I can block up to 6000 damage with my carapace. Yes it does break when that much damage is hit in one blow.

    Many people believe that Carapace should NOT block all the damage from weapons. They feel that, like Iron Claw, some damage should be allowed to go through and hit. I, however, disagree completely.

    Warriors with weapons should NOT be allowed to have thier damage pierce through my carapace. They have a perfectly valid attack that would let them do that in Iron Claw with Venom and Crud additives. If they CHOOSE NOT to use this attack in favor of better accuracy and/or damage, then the penalty is that those with Carapace are going to be tougher to kill. Magical attacks are the same way. If you CHOOSE not to take Cold Touch, then breaking through Endure Damage will be more difficult.

    Warriors make the conscious choice to have an attack that can be completely blocked by Carapace. They have an option open to them to break through my carapace. Its thier fault for not choosing it.

    I believe the Carapace/Weapon damage and Endure/Magical damage is perfectly balanced.


    http://whindanser.tripod.com

  • #2
    Damage should go through if your shield breaks its a shield break, a shield break means at least part of my swing is going through.

    Comment


    • #3
      I believe the Damage is fine, but the fact that Carapace could be cast repeatedly is what I don't like.

      Warrior Breaks Carapace.
      Shaman casts Carapace.
      Warrior Breaks Carapace.
      Shaman casts Carapace.
      Warrior Breaks Carapace.
      Shaman casts Carapace.
      Warrior Breaks Carapace.
      Shaman casts Carapace.

      I mean knowing the fact that a warrior could never get past the carapace because every time he breaks it the shaman would just recast it, Is just really dumb.

      Put a roundtime on the carapace like it can't be recasted on a person for a minute or something.

      Shaman casts Carapace.
      Warrior Breaks Carapace.
      Shaman tries to cast carapace on himself, but can't recast again for a minute.

      More balancing?

      Comment


      • #4
        Carapace has a chance of failure just like anything else.

        EDIT: And Ronze, how about if you hit with an attack you cannot attack again for a minute ;-) sounds balancing to me :-p.

        EDIT EDIT: I also agree with Germanic, if the carapace breaks, the remaining damage should go through.. because you don't stop mid swing just because your broke the carapace. This would also encourage people to really invest in their carapace for maximum damage absorption, not just until they can protect against all damage types.

        Another thing is carapace isn't supposed to be overly useful by itself. Sure in a one-on-one battle carapace can be a pain, but if there are two people attacking one shaman, they will continually get hits in. Carapace is really meant to be used in conjuction with shaman defense increasing abilities, so hits that do HIT don't actually DAMAGE.

        Comment


        • #5
          I think a lot of flame-wars can be prevented if everybody would just accept that their build and fighting strategy will not work against all opponents.
          Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

          -----------------
          "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

          Comment


          • #6
            Use weapons? Don't fight players with carapace without help. Simple as that. Rather than complain about what your build's weakness is, adjust or leave it alone. I avoid mages and ignore Whindanser entirely due to a lack of magical defense and a neverending carapace/stab battle.

            Comment


            • #7
              Perhaps to clarify this is what I don't want to see.

              Joe Newbie casts 100 strength caraprace.

              Cedextra slice for 5k and the 5k is blocked.

              Joe Newbie casts his 100 strength caraprace

              Cedextra slices for 3 k its all blocked.

              Caraprace should stop the damage if its strong enough, if it isn't strong enough it shouldn't stop the damage.

              Comment


              • #8
                Carapace can be stopped you just need to think harder.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Germanic
                  Perhaps to clarify this is what I don't want to see.

                  Joe Newbie casts 100 strength caraprace.

                  Cedextra slice for 5k and the 5k is blocked.

                  Joe Newbie casts his 100 strength caraprace

                  Cedextra slices for 3 k its all blocked.

                  Caraprace should stop the damage if its strong enough, if it isn't strong enough it shouldn't stop the damage.
                  Carapace only starts off blocking T&N, Iron Claw, and Tail whip, nothing else, as you invest in it, more and more damage types get blocked, ie krushing, slicing, then peircing.

                  It takes significant investment in carapace to block all the damage types, so a 'Joe Newbie' wouldn't be able to block slicing.

                  EDIT: Also the fact that someone with only 100 ranks in carapace would have a very hard time casting it reliably, so even if he was facing someone who only had maxed t&n (like a leader) and the carapace blocked the whole thing, the 'newbie' would have great trouble surviving, even with all the damage blocked.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I re-iterate:
                    I think a lot of flame-wars can be prevented if everybody would just accept that their build and fighting strategy will not work against all opponents.
                    So your build can't beat Whindanser's build. Big deal. There are also builds that can beat Whindanser's, but not yours. Just move on.
                    Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

                    -----------------
                    "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Dark_Orlandu
                      Carapace only starts off blocking T&N, Iron Claw, and Tail whip, nothing else, as you invest in it, more and more damage types get blocked, ie krushing, slicing, then peircing.

                      It takes significant investment in carapace to block all the damage types, so a 'Joe Newbie' wouldn't be able to block slicing.

                      EDIT: Also the fact that someone with only 100 ranks in carapace would have a very hard time casting it reliably, so even if he was facing someone who only had maxed t&n (like a leader) and the carapace blocked the whole thing, the 'newbie' would have great trouble surviving, even with all the damage blocked.
                      Thank you.
                      <Zetsu the Vampire grumbles: [ GR's like meth... you try it once and for the next 10 years you're still hooked to it no matter how bad it gets ]>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Well...let me state the exception to my previous two statements: Cedextra.

                        You'd have to do some serious teamwork to take him down. He's done over 8000 damage with a single slice...and that was to Mortikai.
                        Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

                        -----------------
                        "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'd add that Carapace/Endure are not good spells for hunting uglies. So they're not a wise choice for low-level characters to even start learning. They're PK spells for higher-level characters, and should therefore be expected to pack a whallop.

                          Now that shaman abilities always have a chance of failure, I don't see them as being an insoluble problem. Besides, I've also seen some cute poisoned weapons around - perfect for the annoying shaman in your life! Indeed, that'd be my weapon of choice against the master pure shaman.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Actually...there have been times with the recent changes where I've needed my haste, carapace, and heal just to beat my Uglies.


                            http://whindanser.tripod.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As it should be. I don't think any skill was created only for the purpose of pvp. I'm glad the defensive skills like that are finally being put to better use. Again, kudos to these changes and those who made them, and that coming from someone with less defense against uglies than a newbie undead wanderer without armor and during the day.
                              <Zetsu the Vampire grumbles: [ GR's like meth... you try it once and for the next 10 years you're still hooked to it no matter how bad it gets ]>

                              Comment

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