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Suggestion: Summoner

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  • Suggestion: Summoner

    Now...obviously...the top of the list of "things that GMs need to do for GR" is going to be bugs, with balance fixes (i hope) being right under, and I bet the total list is pretty long already what with whatever ideas are still not implemented into the game.

    But I still like the idea of adding new roles, castes, and races to play with in the game. And I see nothing wrong with tossing out suggestions.

    My idea: a Summoner role
    We already somewhat see this with both leaders and builders, and to a lesser extent Magicals and random Undead players who want to play with necromancy. But while you can see people like Golane with 20 warrior dredges, it's not really quite as fun or complex as summoning could be. An entire role designed around how you command and use your minions, and which minions you use, would be very fun, and add some more unique methods of combat.

    Summoners are masters of reaching into the varying planes of existence and drawing other entities into our own. They shun the dredges of the rest of their race, the goblins, harpies, and skeletons, and instead focus completely on these superior minions. Demons from the Abyss, Djinni wielding powerful elemental magic, and even Grendel's own children all answer the call of the Summoner. However, the Summoner himself is completely reliant on the power and abilities of his summons, having devoted all his power to this art.
    Sub-roles could include a specialization in a specific type of summon, or one for overall more control over your summons (more summons, auth boost), summoning more summons, or summoning more powerful ones, and similar things.

    There are all sorts of possibilities with such a role. In order to balance it a bit, Summoners would either not be able to summon normal grunts/warriors, or have it be a side-effect of taking any skill that summons minions. The summons they can get, especially at higher ranks, will be much more powerful than current warriors anyways.
    The idea is for the Summoner to be completely useless without his summons, but be a force to be reckoned with when he's got them.

    Especially if it were possible for the summoner to give more complex commands. For example...specific skill routines to follow in combat. Not exactly "automatic" combat per se, but you could order your summons to follow a specific "combat strategy" until new commands are given or all enemies are neutralized, whichever comes first. For example, an order of attacks to use, who to keep healed/carapaced, who to stun, etc. They could even bark out a command to all minions at once, for when a unified action is needed.

    The summoning skills for this role wouldn't just be, "with this skill, you call forth a fire djinni," but more like, "with this skill, you have learned how to call forth djinni from the elemental planes." That is to say, with higher ranks you can summon more types of djinni than the one you start out with. Move from fire, to lightning, to ice, to poison, maybe even a few more that magicals don't get to use.
    Just some ideas for potential summons:
    Demons (...duh...evil demons)
    Djinni (elemental creatures of great magical power)
    Grendelspawn (NPC versions of playable races, including socials and T1-5 wanderers)
    Lycanthropes (humanoid shapechangers, including werewolves, werebears, werecats, and even wererats!)
    Insectoids (....giant bugs?)

    Even further, some skills could simply enhance the strength of all your summons. Make their attacks more accurate/powerful, make them better defended against attacks, make their other spells (carapace, heal, etc) more potent, perhaps also a skill that "teaches" additional skills to your summons, depending on what sort of summon it is. Maybe at first a fire djinni would only have fireball, but by getting the skill to add abilities, it will learn to Focus it's magic attack!

    We could also include their own version of Teleport, since they are well-versed in planar magic. Instead of "teleporting" per se, they could actually summon forth a portal between their current location and their mark point, at first only able to hold it open for themselves, and then including friends in the future, which a player has to actively walk through. Except enemies. Their portals would forcefully suck in an enemy. At higher ranks, the portal could be two-way, and last longer for when you wish to make a return trip.
    (hint: fallback point for fane wars or lair raids, even if your summoner is slain!)

    The one concern I would have with such a role is how to keep it from getting too powerful by summoning, say, 20 T5-equivalent NPCs? Obviously, not only is the Summoner unable to get normal grunts/warriors, but they would need to have a cap on their Summoner-type minions as well.
    But what system would be most balanced?
    Spread power evenly through all active summons, so that you have the option of a single strong one?
    Have different "tiers" of minions for each summoning skill, with only a max "power level" resulting from whatever combination you summon?
    Simply make it so that more ranks in summoning demons, allows you to summon more of each "tier" of demon?

    I'm curious as to other people's opinions on such a role.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 01-30-2009, 08:30 AM.
    Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

    -----------------
    "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

  • #2
    I'm sure it's a great idea but good lord, I cannot read all of that.
    Marx the Lich
    Rykon the Dwerger

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    • #3
      i second that
      A stratus wizard says, "Perhaps I will make a potion from your bones."
      [Success: 771, Roll: 642] A stratus wizard tries to touch you with an icy finger, but misses.
      You moan to a stratus wizard, "perhaps i'll make a potion from your mom!"

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Fangor View Post
        I'm sure it's a great idea but good lord, I cannot read all of that.
        It's either a fully fleshed-out idea, or a simple "Dur, I wanna see a demon summoner, that'd be cool lol" with everybody responding equally stupid. You can't make everybody happy.

        I prefer a more intellectual discussion.
        Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

        -----------------
        "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

        Comment


        • #5
          Oh, Stop being such a grouch, Drake!


          You think too much -.-;; But can't think of a way to explain it in shorter terms <.<
          Lead Apprentice Embinder
          ---
          Artair says:
          Do you do drugs?
          ---
          Damocles hugs you.
          ---

          Comment


          • #6
            We prefer simple explanations. Ten sentences or less. Allow me:

            Summoner class be cool idea.
            It summons things.
            I thought of it all by my lonesome.
            It can call badass monster-types.
            I like to hear me type.
            Strategizing in combat would be cool.
            I am a'feared of the donkeys.
            Usuichii's idea is not relevant at all but let me add it anyway.
            Turrets are da'bomb.
            Let's add open portaling too cus it's like totally needed here.

            Then we end with something like this:
            Only intelligent people need to respond.

            Morph - Ebonfyre - Cumulus - Constantly Rebuilt Slot

            Retired = Lividium, Stomp, T5 Ebonfyre (stupid me), Equine, Binky, Voyager (human)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tunk_Bodin View Post
              We prefer simple explanations. Ten sentences or less. Allow me:

              Summoner class be cool idea.
              It summons things.
              I thought of it all by my lonesome.
              It can call badass monster-types.
              I like to hear me type.
              Strategizing in combat would be cool.
              I am a'feared of the donkeys.
              Usuichii's idea is not relevant at all but let me add it anyway.
              Turrets are da'bomb.
              Let's add open portaling too cus it's like totally needed here.

              Then we end with something like this:
              Only intelligent people need to respond.

              Even WoW players were more intellectual at theorycrafting than this...
              No joke. They have their idiots, yes, but most players actually discussed the game on a surprisingly intellectual level, though not always on the level of Elitist Jerks.
              Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

              -----------------
              "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

              Comment


              • #8
                It's not a bad idea, in the abstract... If I understand you right, the class abilities would mostly be AI-coded pets (similar to grunts or golems) with the addition of the ability to summon other monsters. (Teleport can do that now, though admittedly under specific limitations.) The thing is... After five or six years since the Premium program started, the "pets" that have been advertised since then are still not available. If making an AI-controlled creature that doesn't have any effect on combat is so hard, I doubt that creatures that can actually fight for you (other than what exists now) will be added anytime soon.

                Might be neat to see in the long term, but I expect there's some roadblock in the code that'd prevent either pets or summoned creatures being implemented in the near future.
                "To protect my own promise, I betrayed another. Now what is left for me is atonement. The dreams have passed, it seems, but there is still a time before waking.

                Here, in Letum, shall my slumber end."

                -Amdrea the Mummy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Liberty View Post
                  It's not a bad idea, in the abstract... If I understand you right, the class abilities would mostly be AI-coded pets (similar to grunts or golems) with the addition of the ability to summon other monsters. (Teleport can do that now, though admittedly under specific limitations.) The thing is... After five or six years since the Premium program started, the "pets" that have been advertised since then are still not available. If making an AI-controlled creature that doesn't have any effect on combat is so hard, I doubt that creatures that can actually fight for you (other than what exists now) will be added anytime soon.

                  Might be neat to see in the long term, but I expect there's some roadblock in the code that'd prevent either pets or summoned creatures being implemented in the near future.
                  I don't see why it would be hard, really. Hell, I don't see why the non-combat pets have been considered hard at all. If GR uses the same engine that TEC uses, it should actually be kind of...already mostly there... *pokes the TEC constables*

                  This could certainly fall under "bugs to fix" coding wise, imo. Cause I would love to see a class at least similar to this be implemented.
                  Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

                  -----------------
                  "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Usuichii put forth the idea of summoning "structures" in some fashion. I think he had the concept of auto-turrets in mind, but on a monsterly level. Perhaps he would be able to elaborate more on the idea, but I'm not entirely sure this fits too well.
                    So not what I was saying. Secondly, you forgot to mention that the portal idea was my idea as well before you went to go on talking about it >.>

                    Anyways, my idea was simple. Summoners could summon constructs or "structures." Not actual buildings. An example being the creation of vague objects that disappear after a set amount of time. While inside a lair, they could create a wall over an existing portal that disappears over time. Perhaps they could create little cubes as make-shift chairs, or create items over/around enemies. Either way, it was an idle idea. I'd consider this to be a sub-skill set; something that's a smaller part of a larger skill.

                    Honestly, I find the summoner role idea a bit too abstract. I don't see this kind of stuff happening in Uthgol. Now, maybe rituals that allow summoning. I wouldn't mind seeing 3 or 4 shamans in a clan getting together with a 5 minute round timer and nifty ritual emotes to create a powerful beast (that's open to clan invite) and the skill could have a huge recast timer to avoid abuse, as well as a life-timer on the aforementioned beast to ensure there's no 'beast stacking'.
                    -Usuichii, Great Scientist.

                    Smarmy the Titan bellows to you, "You look almost like an Ugly."

                    Blackhand the Orc grumbles: I don't know what to call you. No ugly is that vile, and no proper creature of Uthgol has ever had such a lack of honor!

                    Usuichii 1, Usuichii 2

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Usuichii View Post
                      Honestly, I find the summoner role idea a bit too abstract. I don't see this kind of stuff happening in Uthgol. Now, maybe rituals that allow summoning. I wouldn't mind seeing 3 or 4 shamans in a clan getting together with a 5 minute round timer and nifty ritual emotes to create a powerful beast (that's open to clan invite) and the skill could have a huge recast timer to avoid abuse, as well as a life-timer on the aforementioned beast to ensure there's no 'beast stacking'.
                      Eh...I was thinking the summoner would need to perform a ritual at a summoning circle anyways, in order to get his summons. Maybe even would require a builder's help in constructing a special summoning room in order to access his more powerful minions.

                      If a summoner's minions are killed in battle, he should pretty much die with them, imo. Maybe he'd have the option of making a crude, quick summoning for weaker minions just in case he needs a hasty replacement, long enough to survive and run, but even that may be overdoing it.
                      Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

                      -----------------
                      "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'll agree with this if I can summon a horde of kittens. Can I summon a horde of kittens?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Usuichii View Post
                          So
                          Anyways, my idea was simple. Summoners could summon constructs or "structures." Not actual buildings. An example being the creation of vague objects that disappear after a set amount of time. While inside a lair, they could create a wall over an existing portal that disappears over time. Perhaps they could create little cubes as make-shift chairs, or create items over/around enemies. Either way, it was an idle idea. I'd consider this to be a sub-skill set; something that's a smaller part of a larger skill.
                          .
                          thats basically alchemy, and it would degrade over time and let it take damage from monsters, and poison/disease wont effect it), and builders with the destruction ability can use it on the structures as well
                          A stratus wizard says, "Perhaps I will make a potion from your bones."
                          [Success: 771, Roll: 642] A stratus wizard tries to touch you with an icy finger, but misses.
                          You moan to a stratus wizard, "perhaps i'll make a potion from your mom!"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Catobelpas View Post
                            I'll agree with this if I can summon a horde of kittens. Can I summon a horde of kittens?
                            Do werecats count? Or grimalkin?

                            I love the idea of a Summoner getting a Grendelspawn skill and being able to summon NPC versions of everything T5 and below. >_>
                            Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

                            -----------------
                            "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sinfire View Post
                              thats basically alchemy, and it would degrade over time and let it take damage from monsters, and poison/disease wont effect it), and builders with the destruction ability can use it on the structures as well
                              You watched FMA too?

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