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Balance Changes to Intimidate, Boss Monster, and Warmonger

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  • Balance Changes to Intimidate, Boss Monster, and Warmonger

    While working on general combat balance, we have made the following changes:


    The primary problem with intimidate was that it was an unresisted skill. There was no defense against it, no matter how large and tough a monster you were. The following changes have been made.

    - The 'to hit' phase of intimidate now has a difficulty modifier. This modifier is based on the total infamy of you and friendly monsters in the location versus the total infamy of opposing monsters/humans in the location.

    - If the intimidate 'hits', the potency and duration is relative to the attacking monster's infamy and ranks in Intimidate versus the opposing monster's infamy. The size difference between the two monsters also plays a key role. If a really small goblin with no infamy manages to intimidate a dragon by luck, then the effect will be miniscule.

    Boss Monster

    Updates to this ability are still unfinished. However, we have drastically reduced movement penalties for a boss monster when he is in his own lair. This will probably be a permanent change.


    The accuracy and defensive bonuses of Warmonger are now proportional, rather than flat. This means that the Warmonger bonus raises a monster's accuracy/defense rating by a percentile, rather than a set value. This percentile is still determined by the leader's ranks and attributes.

    Important Announcement

    We will be making more Game Balance changes in the future. Many of these changes may impact characters who have invested heavily in overpowered skills. To prevent penalizing these characters, late next week we will begin a 'grace period', during which the Unlearn command restores close to full FPs instead of half for forgetting an ability. This should, hopelfully, allow players to refit their characters relatively painlessly.

    I apolagize to any players who have unlearned skills prior to this announcement. I've only received the go-ahed for the grace period earlier today. Unfortunately, we will not be able to refund any FPs lost to unlearning prior to the grace period.

  • #2
    I assume the warmonger change is going to happen to all of the leader bonuses? And I coulda sworn that your off/def rating got better as the leader raised it's stats and ranks anyways.

    Also...if I have a maxed intimidater...and I go to intimidate say Netze for example...he's been around longer then my character therefore making his infamy extremely I would need to kill more uglies to make my success drop?

    Also...could a GM explain why I'm suddenly spawning uber'd uglies randomly with the same type of armor, same ammount of loot, no fp gain and can cut through me like warm butter?


    • #3
      Warmonger is twice as better as any other leader bonus ability. Ask anyone.
      <Zetsu the Vampire grumbles: [ GR's like meth... you try it once and for the next 10 years you're still hooked to it no matter how bad it gets ]>


      • #4
        I'm sure Snillo will be happy with the Boss Monster change. Good update over all. Thank you Japes.
        Before you is a wraithlike gryphon, the air around him shimmering with bright flares of magic. The scent of gold and alchemy ingrediants permeates from him. Gunk and sap resides within his fur, resulting from a lack of grooming. Occasional scars and ample scabs are the only break from his black, unkept hide. His infested claws are covered in a grey creep that maggots writhe about in. At the end of his elongated tail is a bulk of deformed bone with spikes emerging from it. A layer of creep also covers this deformity. Sharply contrasting the rest of his body are his trimmed wings, carefully preened to be presentable. Upon the ends of these sinewy wings reside a circle of white feathers. Green eyes reside above his straight beak.


        • #5
          Yes, very good changes. No more dying to level 50 warriors for me.
          <Zetsu the Vampire grumbles: [ GR's like meth... you try it once and for the next 10 years you're still hooked to it no matter how bad it gets ]>


          • #6
            And I coulda sworn that your off/def rating got better as the leader raised it's stats and ranks anyways.
            That is the way it worked before. Except it was the same for every single minion under the leader. For example, if a leader gave a +400 accuracy bonus, then all of his minions, whether it be a lowly level 1 character to a grizzled level 500 character, would get a +400 accuracy bonus. Now, a leader may give, for example, a +10% bonus, and each one of his minions would increase in accuracy by that proportion.

            Also...if I have a maxed intimidater...and I go to intimidate say Netze for example...he's been around longer then my character therefore making his infamy extremely I would need to kill more uglies to make my success drop?
            Yes, anything that increases your infamy will make you better at intimidation.


            • #7
              Alright, groovy...but that just widens the gap between wanderer's and socials using intimidate. Ya still didn't answer the ugly question...


              • #8
                I think Influence should at least play a partial role in determining how Intimidate works.

                Using Influence to intimidate others would be akin to 'talking a good fight', or bluffing things.

                Finally, maybe that goblin should have an extremely small chance to actually get an effective intimidate against a dragon? Maybe the goblin finally figures out what the dragon's afraid of, and can pull off something one time.
                I'd say for a goblin vs dragon, though that'd be a 1/1000 chance or so, on a successful intimidate to begin with.

                BTW, players might want a refresher on just what affects infmay and influence.


                • #9
                  A thought:

                  The change to Warmonger helps me:
                  Compared to other warriors, I have more defense before leader bonuses are applied. Therefore, I'll get more out of Warmonger than most other warriors. Whether I'm getting more or less than I did previously, I don't know.

                  The change to Warmonger hurts me:
                  Since now my bonus def from Warmonger is now also dependent on my agility (if indirectly) along with my other defense sources, I'm now even more vulnerable to muddies and stuns.

                  Not necessarily good or bad, just some thoughts.


                  • #10
                    Yeah...the Godfather is so intimidating because of the influence he has.


                    • #11
                      Some testing with Warmonger

                      Let's make up some convienent numbers for an example.

                      Say that before the change, a particular leader gave +500 bonus to defense.
                      And after the change, that leader now gives a 25% bonus to defense to each minion.

                      Using these hypothetical numbers, let's compare how monters with different base defenses will do under that leader, before and after:
                      Base    Bonus  Bonus
                      Defense Before After
                      100     +500   +25
                      500     +500   +125
                      1000    +500   +250
                      1500    +500   +375
                      2000    +500   +500
                      2500    +500   +625
                      Very roughly, a monster with maxed stats and one defense skill might have about 1500 defense base. At 2000 defense base, if it's 25%, the monster breaks even. Monsters with more than 2000 actually get more defense than they did before.

                      So as you can see, this makes the weak weaker than before, and the strong stronger than before.

                      The same goes for offense, where it's easier to rank up higher base values with Blood Oath, Battlecry, Inspire, etc.

                      So what does this mean? The true masters of offense and defense are going to further outclass others in those areas.

                      Anyway, testing. I did some. I don't think anyone in the game can get better than 950 on me in my battle gear. Jinn can't hit me unarmored and him focused. Mythras barely got under 950 when focused.

                      They didn't have this trouble before. Jinn had something in the 400's on me a few days ago, and he's gained 100 focus since then. Me, I gained maybe 3 Evasion or so.

                      Stun, etc., does make me a real pansy, though.

                      Also, my offense seems to have gone down. I had about 750 on Mythras some time back, and now have 950 no matter what I do, without Battlecry or somesuch.

                      Weak weaker, strong stronger. Maybe I'm on the weaker side of the fence when it comes to offense.

                      Just focusing on me? The change boosts my character a lot, I think. Always focused on doging things; this makes the dedication inat area more potent.

                      The game in general? Might not be a good change. Making the strong stronger, and weak weaker, I never really liked. That's why I'm against any bonuses based on character level.

                      So... appearently Warmonger needed tweaking, mostly aimed at brand-new monsters getting too strong. But it's making those that really excel in one area, perhaps excel too much.

                      But if this new change to Warmonger isn't the best, what change would be good? I'm pretty partial to this idea, if it's feasible to implement it.


                      • #12
                        Where as my leadered hunter/builder has like 504 to hit and 750 to be hit. That's only 200 defense better then not having a leader and no bonus to offense.


                        • #13
                          *nods* That's to be expected, as that character is pretty young.

                          Me, I only have about 50% of what Warmonger can offer or so.

                          If this change stays as is, life will be good for me.

                          I just better rank up Kon some more so I don't get stunned and turned into mush.

                          Two things I want to make REAL CLEAR:
                          1. This works with offense too, and there's a lot more effects that boost offense and defense. Battlecry and Inspire just got more potent, as did BO and Koncentrate.

                          2. Just because humanoid warriors CAN get more offense than undead ones, doesn't mean they all DO get more offense than undead ones. Blackhand's the only one in the game who's done that and gotten far. And am giving up on other possibilities, like a ranged attack or Blood Oath.


                          • #14
                            Ryth had 950 on me, stripped, big suprise there. He only had T&N, stats, warmonger, and training room, all maxed at 1000 favors invested.

                            To be fair Ryth did take a hit on his Warmonger bonus, as I did. Still, he could't have had more than 750 or so before, and likely didn't go down much.

                            If there was Battlecry thrown in, though, it might've been another story. I'm not invincible. As Cedextra proved...

                            [Success: 460, Roll: 26] Cedextra the Giant slashes at you with his painful claws, but misses.

                            Bearing in mind that Ced and I both have further improvements to make in our respective areas.

                            P.S. Splash still bites.


                            • #15
                              I hate you. At least you had 950 on me stripped, and defense is my weak spot.

                              Afterthought: So did Mythras. I don't feel so bad now.