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Weapon damage

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  • Weapon damage

    Did they actually change it so heavier stabbing weapons do -less- damage than a shiv?

    I used to be able to hit over 5k with a supreme titan lance. I can't seem to break it at all, now, without using a shiv. (tested rapier, shard, and titan lance so far)

  • #2
    The shiv should be nerfed pretty hard if you ask me. Its total damage output is way too high all things considered.

    Also because all you knock offs who jumped on the shiv bandwagon after I made it famous can piss off.

    Unless your testing included Duelist specializing in the weapon, it doesn't count. Huge damage range is huge. 21k with a titan lance while specialized, averaging around 6k with as low as triple digit.

    And really, if you all tested skillsets thoroughly like I did, you'd know there's something even more overpowered than the shiv around. Keep on walking the path I blazed to fame though, I hear riding the coattails of successful people makes you just as good.

    Comment


    • #3
      I did specialize, and no. My highest is 6200 with a rapier, 9200 with a titan lance, and 7300 with a shard. I haven't finished testing with rapier, so it'll probably go up. I -used- to be able to hit harder with them.

      That is pathetic, compared to the ~6500 with shiv. Also, no, shiv should not just be nerfed. A warrior is supposed to do a lot more damage than a mage.

      I've tested all the warrior skills, in max builds. Claw, stab, slice, krush, thrown weapons, boulder throw, drain life, sneak attack, and missile weapons. I don't remember you actually informing us of anything besides "i stab people, it hurtz."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Vorico View Post
        I did specialize, and no. My highest is 6200 with a rapier, 9200 with a titan lance, and 7300 with a shard. I haven't finished testing with rapier, so it'll probably go up. I -used- to be able to hit harder with them.
        I have screenshots of 21k with a titan lance. Not my fault your testing sucks.

        Originally posted by Vorico View Post
        That is pathetic, compared to the ~6500 with shiv. Also, no, shiv should not just be nerfed.
        Yes, yes it should be. I use the damn thing and I'm saying it should be and unlike you, I don't have a track record of doing things solely for my own good while completely disregarding the rest of the playerbase.

        Originally posted by Vorico View Post
        A warrior is supposed to do a lot more damage than a mage.
        With a big fking stick, not a glorified needle use for jailhouse shankings.

        Originally posted by Vorico View Post
        I've tested all the warrior skills, in max builds. Claw, stab, slice, krush, thrown weapons, boulder throw, drain life, sneak attack, and missile weapons.
        Again, not my fault your testing sucks.

        Originally posted by Vorico View Post
        I don't remember you actually informing us of anything besides "i stab people, it hurtz."
        Of course I didn't tell the general public, then you'd all jump on that bandwagon too.

        Comment


        • #5
          Just to get off the "social/WM comparison", Lasombra as a Banshee did massive damage with her supreme titan lance, and from what I hear you are higher level than she was when she used them.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Rythgen View Post
            I have screenshots of 21k with a titan lance. Not my fault your testing sucks.
            Me too, read again.


            Yes, yes it should be. I use the damn thing and I'm saying it should be and unlike you, I don't have a track record of doing things solely for my own good while completely disregarding the rest of the playerbase.
            I really need a copy of that record. Oh, you mean in your opinion, don't you? Nevermind.

            With a big fking stick, not a glorified needle use for jailhouse shankings.
            4k per 10 seconds is less than 2k per 4. There's a big fking stick that can hurt more than a mage? I'm all for balancing out weapons, so big fking sticks do more damage than mages, instead of only the fastest weapons, and shivs/dirks/blackjacks do less.

            Nerfing shiv itself != that.

            Again, not my fault your testing sucks.
            That doesn't even make sense, in that context. Yes, I know three skills that end up stronger than a shiv.

            Of course I didn't tell the general public, then you'd all jump on that bandwagon too.
            And BS is more effective when people can't look at it.

            ---

            Also, from what I saw, Lasombra did not tell us all the conditions of her tests. She just copied a big damage number. If I wanted to just do that, I could easily show you a hit for 40k. Level means nothing, skills involved does.

            I'll specialize in it again, just in case my several hundred kills wasn't enough to hit a big number.

            Comment


            • #7
              And you both are being major douchebags. My god, the ego-stroking and intense sense of pride in this thread are enough to choke a....well, I'm not going to continue that thought.

              If Rythgen isn't going to share the specifics of his findings, then just take his opinion at a lower face value than those who've done the numbers and shared them, simple as that. At least, that's what I would do if I were you, since you never saw Rythgen in action.

              Me, I choose to believe him. Every time I've ever tried making a Warrior, people tried making me use the shiv. My reaction every time was that "I don't want to" even though it supposedly does the most damage.
              It should NEVER be the case in a game that one item is *the* best choice for a role, and they need to make shivs less godly, or else have other weapons catch up. That's why I love Magicals as much as I do. Their breath weapons are all different, and some people like certain breath attacks more than others, but there is none that is the all around GOD that all Magicals should use for the best in combat. (Although there are the useless skills like Cold Touch...)
              Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

              -----------------
              "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

              Comment


              • #8
                I agreed on the few things he pointed out. Mechanics change, and seem to me to have changed.

                But yes, that's the point of my thought pattern. Weapons have never been balanced out, and -if- they have changed, it's in the wrong direction. I'd like to use a rapier or spear or titan lance without losing 100s of dps.

                I get tired of RPing a lunatic with a sharpened piece of metal.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Vorico View Post
                  I get tired of RPing a lunatic with a sharpened piece of metal.
                  That's.... what all stabby/slicey weapons are. Glorified sharpened pieces of metal. Krushing weapons are just unsharpened versions. O.o
                  Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

                  -----------------
                  "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Perhaps, but you can be slightly less insane with a non-shiv.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Lasombra View Post
                      [Success: 50, Roll: 973] You stab Krekish the Imp with your supreme titan lance and your glowing supreme titan lance! 43692 points of damage! Krekish the Imp roars a final time before dying.

                      He didn't have the rune. >.>

                      I didn't, and I experienced that. It hurt.
                      <Pandarus thinks aloud: Oh Ereal's blazing jewels, I'm on my way.>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        That's not -a- titan lance, or a rapier, or a crystal shard. Also, again, that involves one, if not two, other skills. The funny thing is, that's still probably less dps than my lonesome shiv without even considering...

                        Imps are vulnerable to slashing, crushing, and piercing damage.
                        How much do you think a resonated breath attack will do to a lich? Guess at that damage, than compare the RT to those two titan lances. You might be amazed at how silly maxing the situation and ignoring everything but a big pretty number is.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
                          And you both are being major douchebags.
                          It's more bitterness than outright douchebaggery but since Vorico made an attempt at civility, so will I.

                          We both agree that a shiv is a stupid thing to have be the best weapon in the game, as should everyone else. Warriors don't walk around with jailhouse shanks, they wield swords, spears, maces, etc. It isn't even a warrior v mage thing at this point, it's a 'the way weapons are set up is retarded' thing.

                          The weapons need to be balanced out so that either:

                          a) everything is balanced but at different speeds so dps is pretty much an issue of your stats/ranks, not weapon. If someone wants to run around with a shiv, he can, but he won't be any less or more effective than the guy at his same level/ranks with a battleaxe.

                          b) weapon damages are brought more in line to the speed of the weapon, so a shiv is weaker but can still strike very fast.

                          I don't have a particular preference to either system although the first one allows for more flexibility in RP while still maintaining equal mechanical functionality. Both make more sense than what's around now.

                          And as an aside, Two Weapons combined with titan lances from a T6 against a T2 with weapon weaknesses isn't a benchmark for anything other than LOLHUEGNUMBARZ.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Rythgen View Post
                            It's more bitterness than outright douchebaggery but since Vorico made an attempt at civility, so will I.

                            We both agree that a shiv is a stupid thing to have be the best weapon in the game, as should everyone else. Warriors don't walk around with jailhouse shanks, they wield swords, spears, maces, etc. It isn't even a warrior v mage thing at this point, it's a 'the way weapons are set up is retarded' thing.

                            The weapons need to be balanced out so that either:

                            a) everything is balanced but at different speeds so dps is pretty much an issue of your stats/ranks, not weapon. If someone wants to run around with a shiv, he can, but he won't be any less or more effective than the guy at his same level/ranks with a battleaxe.

                            b) weapon damages are brought more in line to the speed of the weapon, so a shiv is weaker but can still strike very fast.

                            I don't have a particular preference to either system although the first one allows for more flexibility in RP while still maintaining equal mechanical functionality. Both make more sense than what's around now.

                            And as an aside, Two Weapons combined with titan lances from a T6 against a T2 with weapon weaknesses isn't a benchmark for anything other than LOLHUEGNUMBARZ.
                            I think it should be pretty simple. The bigger/heavier the weapon, the harder it hits, and the slower it is to swing. You simply can't attack with a battleaxe as fast as you can a shiv, but it sure leaves a much nastier wound.

                            Normalize weapon damage to it's speed. While having all weapons being the same can be pretty dull, well...that's where weapon quality and enhancement comes in. If the staff wanted to get complicated, they could make different *kinds* of shivs/battleaxes/longswords/scythes.

                            But, let's just stick with the easy answer before adding more flavor, aye?
                            Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

                            -----------------
                            "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I forgot to say. It should be -somewhat- as it is now. A shiv should do more DPS than a titan lance, because you have to do the damage over time and with multiple attacks.

                              It just shouldn't be such a staggering slope.
                              Last edited by Vorico; 01-29-2009, 10:53 AM.

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