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Weapon damage

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Vorico View Post
    I forgot to say. It should be -somewhat- as it is now. A shiv should do more DPS per second than a titan lance, because you have to do the damage over time and with multiple attacks.

    It just shouldn't be such a staggering slope.
    At the risk of being a prick: Damage per second per second?
    This is just one of my pet peeves with RPG terms. ><

    I think the logic Vorico is *trying* to say is that, in a battle, you really should bet on a warrior skilled with a shiv, than a warrior skilled with a lance. However, this would be easily seen by how quickly the shiv attacks and does damage. It may do essentially the same damage over time, but it has more opportunities to score hits (even if they're smaller), and would certainly be easier to hit with. It would *appear* to do more damage as a result, even if it technically follows similar damage per second.
    Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

    -----------------
    "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

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    • #17
      Typo/brain fart, shut it. It's not the same as not knowing the term and just repeating it mindlessly. :P

      And no, that is not what I'm trying to say. Faster weapons should do more damage in a balanced system, because they do not do all the damage up front. I believe that is the reasoning for them doing less damage now, it's just taken to an extreme.

      A titan lance does huge, upfront damage. A shiv does small damage that builds up. The build up should be more than the titan lance, it just shouldn't be a huge difference (as it is now).

      It is not an appearance. Smaller weapons do far more damage over time.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Vorico View Post
        And no, that is not what I'm trying to say. Faster weapons should do more damage in a balanced system, because they do not do all the damage up front. I believe that is the reasoning for them doing less damage now, it's just taken to an extreme.

        A titan lance does huge, upfront damage. A shiv does small damage that builds up. The build up should be more than the titan lance, it just shouldn't be a huge difference (as it is now).

        It is not an appearance. Smaller weapons do far more damage over time.
        Umm...that's pretty much what I said in my post. You don't need to purposefully code that into the system. The numbers handle it for you simply because of the fact that a faster weapon with smaller attacks can most likely get in more hits in a set amount of time than a slower weapon could.

        What you're stating is the reason faster/smaller weapons are usually a better choice in RPGs. It's an unintended aspect of the system that just happens, not something you hard-code.

        What I meant by "appears" to do more damage is the following example. Let's say you've got two weapons that do 50 DPS, but one attacks every 3 seconds and the other attacks every 6 seconds. Thus, the faster weapon does 150 damage in a single hit, while the slower weapon does 300 in a single hit. All other numbers would be the same because of the warrior wielding it.

        Let's say 18 seconds of combat pass (for simpler math is all). That is six attacks for the fast weapon, and three attacks for the slow weapon. If no attacks miss, that's 900 damage from the fast weapon and 900 from the slow. The damage would, by the numbers, match precisely.
        But let's say both weapons miss once, due to a slightly imperfect hit chance. The faster weapon now does 750 total, while the slow weapon does 600 total. It appears to do more, even though they do the same damage.
        The reason a faster weapon would, in theory, do more damage than a slow weapon, is because a missed attack is less significant for the small-hitting fast weapon than a heavy-hitting slow one.

        Granted, that sort of example would not hold true for all cases, and if the faster weapon misses enough times, of course the slower weapon does more damage, but that's where luck and chance come in.
        Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 01-29-2009, 02:28 PM.
        Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

        -----------------
        "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

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        • #19
          If a weapon is twice as fast, it misses twice as much.

          This is not being tested on a single fight basis. That would be silly. Hundreds of hits are taken, misses are ignored, and the DPS is calculated by dividing the average by the RT.

          Since this is the case, that logic fails.

          My average hit on a shiv is 1.8k, RT of 3 seconds. My average hit on a rapier is 2.6k on 7 seconds. It does not have the same DPS.

          ---

          And...still, I do not see the relation between your post and mine, except that you seem to be disagreeing with me in some strange, tangential way.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Vorico View Post
            My average hit on a shiv is 1.8k, RT of 3 seconds. My average hit on a rapier is 2.6k on 7 seconds. It does not have the same DPS.
            We were talking about a potential change to weapon damage, rather than as they are now, and you said something that didn't quite make sense.

            I'm just thinking that the change that should be made is to normalize the damage for weapons so that it depends more on a warrior's build and ranks than the type of weapon he uses. While a magical using Poison Breathing will fare differently than a magical using Chain Lightning, that's about as different as a warrior choosing slice or stab, (and frankly, Krush/Stab/Slice need secondary effects that separate them beyond gear choice). A lighter weapon (like a shiv, as opposed to a titan lance) should hit for less damage per hit, but be more accurate and faster. Lighter weapons can be swung faster, while also be easier to slice through an enemy's defense through sheer dexterity. However, the overall damage it does over time without counting misses should be about the same as any other stabby weapon.

            Normally, I'd bring up that having different skills affects what sort of weapon you want beyond just "should i get a sword or mace?" but also what speed and how heavy-hitting it should be, but this isn't warcraft, and we don't have skills that depend on weapon speed...yet.
            Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

            -----------------
            "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

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            • #21
              Bumping this to say shivs are still absolutely retarded along with dirks and blackjacks. Can the fastest weapons not also be among the strongest anymore?

              I'm honestly baffled as to why a rapier with a four second slower roundtime has lower average hits and only a slightly higher maximum damage than a shiv. Let's not even get into the actually slow weapons.

              Please fix this nonsense.

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              • #22
                Weapon damage is broken, always has been and will continue to be for a long time.

                There is no scale. There's just fubaredness.
                Originally posted by Usuichii
                Vyshka the Wyvern hisses to a round silver mirror, "Rythvea"
                Vyshka the Wyvern hisses to a round silver mirror, "Rythvea"
                Vyshka the Wyvern hisses to a round silver mirror, "Rythvea"

                If you say it three times, they say they'll come after you that night.
                Originally posted by fiendish_thingy
                They say the last thing you notice before you die is the faint smell of cinnamon and bacon.
                Originally posted by kaoslace
                I find your lack of doughnuts disturbing.

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                • #23
                  I enjoy reading these old rambling threads. I just wanted to know what the fast krushing weapon was.

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