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ZEALOTRY Users: Critical Notice on Continued Use

Edit: Our new HTML5 client (Orchil) is now open for beta testing in The Eternal City. Feel free to try give it a whirl at http://test.skotos.net/orchil/

Edit: We have made great strides toward a new HTML5 client, which should offer a replacement to Zealotry. We're hoping to release that in the very near future, but in the meantime, using Pale Moon remains the best method for ensuring there is zero interruption to your game playing during the transition.

As of November 14, Mozilla will be auto-updating all copies of Mozilla Firefox to Mozilla 57, a new edition of their browser that will disable all legacy add-ons. This will probably include the majority of the plug-ins that you use on Mozilla, including the Skotos Zealotry plug-in.

This is a big problem for us because Zealotry is the most stable of our clients at this time, and the one that we believe is in the widest use. There's unfortunately no easy way to update it, because we'd have to rewrite it from practically scratch, using their new programming system.

There are tricks that you could use to to prevent Mozilla updates, but we don't particularly suggest them, as you want to have a clean, secure browser. Fortunately, there are two alternative browsers that will support Zealotry. Each of them branched off of an earlier version of Mozilla Firefox, and each of them continues to be updated for important security issues.

Pale Moon Browser

The Pale Moon browser is our suggested replacement. It is a totally separate browser that branched off of Firefox some years ago. It will continue to support the classic plug-ins.

To install it:
  • Install Pale Moon (Windows & UNIX only)
  • Install the Zealotry XPI on Pale Moon
  • Restart the Pale Moon Browser
  • Play on Pale Moon

The official version of Pale Moon only supports Windows and UNIX, but you can also get a slightly less official version of Pale Moon for the Mac. We've tested it out and it looks like it's clean and works correctly, but use your own level of caution in working with the Mac variant.

If You Have Errors

Some users are experiencing "Content Encoding Errors" when using Pale Moon and Zealotry. As best we can tell, this is due to an incompatibility between Windows 8.1, Pale Moon, and Plugins. If you have this problem (or any other), we suggest instead using Mozilla's extended-release version of Firefox, which branched at Firefox 52. It's expected to remain supported until at least June 28, 2018, by which time Mozilla is planning to jump their ESR to a post-plugin phase. This is therefore a short-term solution, but we expect to have full release of our New HTML5 client well before that.

To install it:
The Big Picture

Our larger-scale goal is to introduce a new client that will be usable on any browser and make our games generally more accessible. We've had a HTML5 client in process since last year, but are currently hitting roadblocks that make a deployment before November 14 problematic. We've also just started a second project, which would be more specifically focused as a Zealotry replacement, without worries about new bells or new whistles. Both of these possibilities are being done out-of-house, by Skotos players, but they're receiving our highest level of attention for whatever support they need, as this is all our top priority.

So, consider this a short-term fix, but in the meantime if you use Zealotry, please download one of the alternative browsers and test them out ASAP.
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Grendel's Revenge Free Accounts

On December 15th of 2012, Grendel's Revenge enabled free accounts for play. This announcement is following in the suit of TEC's own free account announcement, serving as a reminder to any new or returning players that are browsing the forums.

For all the details about what free accounts are, look no further than here: http://forum.skotos.net/showthread.php?t=95655

In order to log into GR for free, simply visit this page to sign into your Skotos account (ignoring any subscription notices it may give): https://www.skotos.net/user/login.php

Then click the following link for Zealotry/Firefox: zealotry:@GrendelsRevenge.skotos.net...login/Zealotry

Or this link for Alice/Internet Explorer: http://grendelsrevenge.skotos.net/mo...in/alice.shtml

Problems? Questions? You can email the GR staff group at grendel.staff@gmail.com
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Weapon damage

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Vorico View Post
    I forgot to say. It should be -somewhat- as it is now. A shiv should do more DPS per second than a titan lance, because you have to do the damage over time and with multiple attacks.

    It just shouldn't be such a staggering slope.
    At the risk of being a prick: Damage per second per second?
    This is just one of my pet peeves with RPG terms. ><

    I think the logic Vorico is *trying* to say is that, in a battle, you really should bet on a warrior skilled with a shiv, than a warrior skilled with a lance. However, this would be easily seen by how quickly the shiv attacks and does damage. It may do essentially the same damage over time, but it has more opportunities to score hits (even if they're smaller), and would certainly be easier to hit with. It would *appear* to do more damage as a result, even if it technically follows similar damage per second.
    Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

    -----------------
    "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

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    • #17
      Typo/brain fart, shut it. It's not the same as not knowing the term and just repeating it mindlessly. :P

      And no, that is not what I'm trying to say. Faster weapons should do more damage in a balanced system, because they do not do all the damage up front. I believe that is the reasoning for them doing less damage now, it's just taken to an extreme.

      A titan lance does huge, upfront damage. A shiv does small damage that builds up. The build up should be more than the titan lance, it just shouldn't be a huge difference (as it is now).

      It is not an appearance. Smaller weapons do far more damage over time.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Vorico View Post
        And no, that is not what I'm trying to say. Faster weapons should do more damage in a balanced system, because they do not do all the damage up front. I believe that is the reasoning for them doing less damage now, it's just taken to an extreme.

        A titan lance does huge, upfront damage. A shiv does small damage that builds up. The build up should be more than the titan lance, it just shouldn't be a huge difference (as it is now).

        It is not an appearance. Smaller weapons do far more damage over time.
        Umm...that's pretty much what I said in my post. You don't need to purposefully code that into the system. The numbers handle it for you simply because of the fact that a faster weapon with smaller attacks can most likely get in more hits in a set amount of time than a slower weapon could.

        What you're stating is the reason faster/smaller weapons are usually a better choice in RPGs. It's an unintended aspect of the system that just happens, not something you hard-code.

        What I meant by "appears" to do more damage is the following example. Let's say you've got two weapons that do 50 DPS, but one attacks every 3 seconds and the other attacks every 6 seconds. Thus, the faster weapon does 150 damage in a single hit, while the slower weapon does 300 in a single hit. All other numbers would be the same because of the warrior wielding it.

        Let's say 18 seconds of combat pass (for simpler math is all). That is six attacks for the fast weapon, and three attacks for the slow weapon. If no attacks miss, that's 900 damage from the fast weapon and 900 from the slow. The damage would, by the numbers, match precisely.
        But let's say both weapons miss once, due to a slightly imperfect hit chance. The faster weapon now does 750 total, while the slow weapon does 600 total. It appears to do more, even though they do the same damage.
        The reason a faster weapon would, in theory, do more damage than a slow weapon, is because a missed attack is less significant for the small-hitting fast weapon than a heavy-hitting slow one.

        Granted, that sort of example would not hold true for all cases, and if the faster weapon misses enough times, of course the slower weapon does more damage, but that's where luck and chance come in.
        Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 01-29-2009, 03:28 PM.
        Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

        -----------------
        "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

        Comment


        • #19
          If a weapon is twice as fast, it misses twice as much.

          This is not being tested on a single fight basis. That would be silly. Hundreds of hits are taken, misses are ignored, and the DPS is calculated by dividing the average by the RT.

          Since this is the case, that logic fails.

          My average hit on a shiv is 1.8k, RT of 3 seconds. My average hit on a rapier is 2.6k on 7 seconds. It does not have the same DPS.

          ---

          And...still, I do not see the relation between your post and mine, except that you seem to be disagreeing with me in some strange, tangential way.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Vorico View Post
            My average hit on a shiv is 1.8k, RT of 3 seconds. My average hit on a rapier is 2.6k on 7 seconds. It does not have the same DPS.
            We were talking about a potential change to weapon damage, rather than as they are now, and you said something that didn't quite make sense.

            I'm just thinking that the change that should be made is to normalize the damage for weapons so that it depends more on a warrior's build and ranks than the type of weapon he uses. While a magical using Poison Breathing will fare differently than a magical using Chain Lightning, that's about as different as a warrior choosing slice or stab, (and frankly, Krush/Stab/Slice need secondary effects that separate them beyond gear choice). A lighter weapon (like a shiv, as opposed to a titan lance) should hit for less damage per hit, but be more accurate and faster. Lighter weapons can be swung faster, while also be easier to slice through an enemy's defense through sheer dexterity. However, the overall damage it does over time without counting misses should be about the same as any other stabby weapon.

            Normally, I'd bring up that having different skills affects what sort of weapon you want beyond just "should i get a sword or mace?" but also what speed and how heavy-hitting it should be, but this isn't warcraft, and we don't have skills that depend on weapon speed...yet.
            Current Monster: Nadriel the Hydra

            -----------------
            "It's easy to criticize someone who generates an idea, assumes the risk."

            Comment


            • #21
              Bumping this to say shivs are still absolutely retarded along with dirks and blackjacks. Can the fastest weapons not also be among the strongest anymore?

              I'm honestly baffled as to why a rapier with a four second slower roundtime has lower average hits and only a slightly higher maximum damage than a shiv. Let's not even get into the actually slow weapons.

              Please fix this nonsense.

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              • #22
                Weapon damage is broken, always has been and will continue to be for a long time.

                There is no scale. There's just fubaredness.
                Originally posted by Usuichii
                Vyshka the Wyvern hisses to a round silver mirror, "Rythvea"
                Vyshka the Wyvern hisses to a round silver mirror, "Rythvea"
                Vyshka the Wyvern hisses to a round silver mirror, "Rythvea"

                If you say it three times, they say they'll come after you that night.
                Originally posted by fiendish_thingy
                They say the last thing you notice before you die is the faint smell of cinnamon and bacon.
                Originally posted by kaoslace
                I find your lack of doughnuts disturbing.

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                • #23
                  I enjoy reading these old rambling threads. I just wanted to know what the fast krushing weapon was.

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