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  • Stonespyder
    replied
    Originally posted by Kjel View Post
    It does say something about the community when folks are afraid to provide feedback out of fear of being treated a certain way by the GMs. There are some that like to just complain about everything but I'd like to think a lot of the feedback and criticism are meant to improve things since so many of us have been playing this darn game since the 90s.
    Just gonna quote this.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rupert
    replied
    It's fine that you don't agree with me, just don't pretend you're willing to bend by engaging in debate. We can both avoid a lot of typing by saying we fundamentally disagree. I AM willing to bend to objectivity, I just can't find anything in that realm to justify where you're coming from. I'm just not going to be swayed by arguments from the middle or subjectivity.

    My reply wasn't to you, nor did I put a gun to your head and make you type a response. It was directed at the sentiment of making people feel like they can't share their own criticism. If you feel you were guilty of this, it's not because I pointed my finger at you and accused you of it.

    You're right, I did start this. Probably a mistake on my part, but I knew others wouldn't. Probably because of.. well, observe above. Despite that, I still encourage anyone who hasn't to share their experience of the evening for good or bad for perspective.

    Edit - We took it to discord. SQUASHED!
    Last edited by Rupert; 08-20-2018, 10:57 PM.

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  • Sirrius
    replied
    My 'tirade' regarding that consists of two posts. The first one, in reply to the post where that quote is taken directly from. The second one, is a reply to you that YOU coaxed out of me. Also I didn't say you cherry-picked anything. I said you just interpreted it wrong. You're literally inventing things that I've done this thread. You started this discussion, you should be open to discussion. You kind of did the same thing on discord in regards to how VCs are awarded. You entertained the idea of a discussion, but once it was clear I didn't agree with you; you started to disregard what I had to say completely and imply that I was arguing for the sake of arguing because I didn't align. I'm sorry that I don't agree with you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rupert
    replied
    So just to be clear here, your tirade against favoritism and bias over the last several posts is based on a snippet of a single post. And also to be clear, this comes immediately after you just made the claim that -I- was guilty of cherry picking quotes.

    That honestly sounds like classic derailment to me man, but thanks for contributing.

    It either was a 100 or not a 100 event. It either was or wasn't a reward for doing it. Bringing it up as a talking point or an excuse accomplishes nothing, and only serves to distort the issue, whether that be from a GM on facebook, or a player in the forums.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sirrius
    replied
    Originally posted by Dogg View Post

    Was my effort somehow not worth rewarding? Or even still, was others somehow more valuable, hence their outcomes?
    Reads pretty plainly to me. This is the nature of a debate. I replied to him. You replied to my reply to him with some stuff that I felt was pretty off-base, I replied with some stuff you felt was pretty off-base - and it's gone from there.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rupert
    replied
    The thing is though Sirrius, you ARE choosing to look at it that way, which is why you perceive THAT to be the issue. Nobody said their was favoritism, it was barely even suggested, and you came in to defend that idea based on that preconception. You keep presenting it, and then use people's replies to you as defensive of that idea. I don't want to defend that idea, and I don't see anyone else stepping up to do it either.

    This idea that someone criticizing can only be complaining because of perceived bias or inequality needs to stop. Again, we are all adults. Give your fellow players the respect of being so, and stop perceiving them as children incapable of voicing a legitimate concern.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sirrius
    replied
    Originally posted by Rupert View Post

    You appear to be arguing just to argue, man. It either is or isn't a hit 100 event, but there's no way you expect us to just watch as you go back and forth on this.

    Also, that sentiment you have, does a WONDERFUL job of convincing returning players the game is still a mess. As a returning player myself, it's certainly doing the job for me.

    People are giving it the exact meaning it's worth. A lvl 10 VC is worth 20,000 RP's. That's 10,000 hours of being at your computer on a basic account, or $4000 dollars worth of story points. I don't get why you're trying to make RP's sound so unimpotant, when we all clearly understand their value, and what you have to give up for them. And for the record, I have ZERO problem these were given out.

    I'd argue it has everything to do with the game 'staying in place', because it's the perceived infractions and actions of decades of inconsistency that causes the perceived animosity on both ends.
    Look. Read what you quoted. This was basically to do with the hitting 100 players simultaneously is NOT this was an event to try and hit 100 players. I'm not going back and forth on anything. You're misinterpreting.

    Implying that because I think we shouldn't whine about how free rewards were given out is convincing returning players that the game is a mess is complete hyperbole. If my opinion on this one topic is cementing that idea for you, then I don't know what to tell you.

    RPs are potent within this game, sure, but a large part of the reason for that is how long they take to accrue. I'm choosing to not look at it in a, that's unfair that this person got a VC kind of way - and more of a: Cool, good for them, I hope they make an awesome character and introduce some great RP with it sort of way. I just got rid of my main of 20 years to get a VC that someone was randomly awarded for free and I don't care because it's just not that important.

    I'm sorry if I come across as an asshole in all of this, but it just blows my mind that these are the things we are worrying about.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rupert
    replied
    Originally posted by Sirrius View Post
    And yes. This was basically to do with the hitting 100 players simultaneously.
    You appear to be arguing just to argue, man. It either is or isn't a hit 100 event, but there's no way you expect us to just watch as you go back and forth on this.

    Also, that sentiment you have, does a WONDERFUL job of convincing returning players the game is still a mess. As a returning player myself, it's certainly doing the job for me.

    People are giving it the exact meaning it's worth. A lvl 10 VC is worth 20,000 RP's. That's 10,000 hours of being at your computer on a basic account, or $4000 dollars worth of story points. I don't get why you're trying to make RP's sound so unimpotant, when we all clearly understand their value, and what you have to give up for them. And for the record, I have ZERO problem these were given out.

    I'd argue it has everything to do with the game 'staying in place', because it's the perceived infractions and actions of decades of inconsistency that causes the perceived animosity on both ends. Strong foundations and consistency standards are essential for events like this. If we're going to avoid this and reduce it to you get what you get or nothing at all, then quite frankly, I'll take nothing at all for the sake of consistency. The thought that in players or GM's minds it can't happen any other way is kind of depressing though, especially with a player base and staff that clearly consists of people passionate about the game and what happens to it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sirrius
    replied
    Originally posted by Rupert View Post
    I'm having a hard time establishing how this is any better if it's suppose to be a 'hit 100 players online' event. For starters, the first mention of that sentiment comes after the entire nights events. If this is something that was aiming to be accomplished, delivering it on Facebook and Twitter exclusively the day of, considering the success we've had in the past with short notice, is probably not the best way to go about it.

    Second, I haven't heard any reason specified for why hitting 100 is a good thing from the staff side, but I suspect it's to draw in old players and up the number of paying accounts playing the game on a regular basis. They are a business after all. And in that regard, I don't consider T-mobile offering me promotions on my contract an act of kindness, I consider it them trying to retain my business by providing quality service. If we want to retain the players from something like that, then it's probably best to convince them outright the game isn't the same mess that they left a decade ago. I believe the game has changed tremendously for the positive both on the staff and players side. Can we please show them that?

    If we want to hit 100 players online at one time, we need at least 4 weeks notice. We need every player hitting up old players to come back for it. We need a small promotional event or open RP night planned for the occasion. And we need the GM's to hit up the mailing list. I'd love to see this happen, and I don't want it to become something we only ever attempt half-assed. Lets do it right if we're going to do it, that goes for both players and GM's.

    I'd also like to believe that pointing that out isn't going to result in the complete revocation of any future activity related to this or not, or me being personally targetted. We're all adults here. Like Kjel correctly pointed out, most if not ALL of us have been playing the game together for 20 years, GM and player alike. It'd be really nice if we could all just move forward from this point, instead of constantly finding reasons to stay in place.

    This wasn't a NEW hit 100 event. This was a random reward event for trying, but failing, to hit 100 on a few occasions. Giving out free RPs doesn't do anything to convince the game is or isn't a mess. It also has nothing to do with the game staying in place. It's just a reward. I feel like people are trying to give what was suppose to be a surprise reward too much meaning, and somehow flipping it into a negative. I just don't see it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rupert
    replied
    I'm having a hard time establishing how this is any better if it's suppose to be a 'hit 100 players online' event. For starters, the first mention of that sentiment comes after the entire nights events. If this is something that was aiming to be accomplished, delivering it on Facebook and Twitter exclusively the day of, considering the success we've had in the past with short notice, is probably not the best way to go about it.

    Second, I haven't heard any reason specified for why hitting 100 is a good thing from the staff side, but I suspect it's to draw in old players and up the number of paying accounts playing the game on a regular basis. They are a business after all. And in that regard, I don't consider T-mobile offering me promotions on my contract an act of kindness, I consider it them trying to retain my business by providing quality service. If we want to retain the players from something like that, then it's probably best to convince them outright the game isn't the same mess that they left a decade ago. I believe the game has changed tremendously for the positive both on the staff and players side. Can we please show them that?

    If we want to hit 100 players online at one time, we need at least 4 weeks notice. We need every player hitting up old players to come back for it. We need a small promotional event or open RP night planned for the occasion. And we need the GM's to hit up the mailing list. I'd love to see this happen, and I don't want it to become something we only ever attempt half-assed. Lets do it right if we're going to do it, that goes for both players and GM's.

    I'd also like to believe that pointing that out isn't going to result in the complete revocation of any future activity related to this or not, or me being personally targetted. We're all adults here. Like Kjel correctly pointed out, most if not ALL of us have been playing the game together for 20 years, GM and player alike. It'd be really nice if we could all just move forward from this point, instead of constantly finding reasons to stay in place.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sirrius
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragonus View Post

    Going to assume by the "Pretty much anything you can think of." and multiple blank spaces and random point at the end that I don't completely understand (was this event supposed to be a reward for trying to hit a number?)... that was somewhat sarcastic. Thanks for the input though, helps to clarify some things.
    ??? - You asked, I answered. It was suppose to drive home the point that free awards are not something I feel we should criticize the GMs for - but also, it was to dispel the implication that because I feel that way; that I just don't care or am satisfied if the GMs did nothing.

    And yes. This was basically to do with the hitting 100 players simultaneously.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragonus
    replied
    Originally posted by Sirrius View Post

    Total obligation?
    • Fix bugs.
    • Handle @requests in a timely (subjective, I suppose) manner.
    • Monitor the game world.

    Standards that they should be pressed to uphold? Sure. Here's a list, that works for me, in an order that also works for me.
    • Run events that push story and lore forward.
    • Continuing balancing and tweaking of in game systems
    • Assist Organizations.
    • Create new content
    • Pretty much anything you can think of.
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    • Award free RPs to the playerbase for never hitting a number that we were suppose to hit to get said free RPs.
    Going to assume by the "Pretty much anything you can think of." and multiple blank spaces and random point at the end that I don't completely understand (was this event supposed to be a reward for trying to hit a number?)... that was somewhat sarcastic. Thanks for the input though, helps to clarify some things.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sirrius
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragonus View Post

    Slight derail. In your opinion what exactly are they obligated to do at all? Is this a, "I expect absolutely nothing, so getting anything should be praised" stance? Or do you have certain minimum standards in mind which should be upheld, and if so what are they?
    Total obligation?
    • Fix bugs.
    • Handle @requests in a timely (subjective, I suppose) manner.
    • Monitor the game world.
    Standards that they should be pressed to uphold? Sure. Here's a list, that works for me, in an order that also works for me.
    • Run events that push story and lore forward.
    • Continuing balancing and tweaking of in game systems
    • Assist Organizations.
    • Create new content
    • Pretty much anything you can think of.
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    • Award free RPs to the playerbase for never hitting a number that we were suppose to hit to get said free RPs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dragonus
    replied
    Originally posted by Sirrius View Post

    [...] It was not something that they were obligated to do [...]
    Slight derail. In your opinion what exactly are they obligated to do at all? Is this a, "I expect absolutely nothing, so getting anything should be praised" stance? Or do you have certain minimum standards in mind which should be upheld, and if so what are they?

    Leave a comment:


  • Kjel
    replied
    It does say something about the community when folks are afraid to provide feedback out of fear of being treated a certain way by the GMs. There are some that like to just complain about everything but I'd like to think a lot of the feedback and criticism are meant to improve things since so many of us have been playing this darn game since the 90s.

    Leave a comment:

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