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  • #31
    not every nation is a warrior, not every warrior is cineran, not every cineran uses knives. You used to be able to get your three traits, with some of them automatic, and some free... and then have zero negatives... you can stick with that, or get MORE traits, with a new character, but you'll have to take negatives to compensate.
    I don't deny that they want to recycle characters, people are like 90 years old, and not aging, the game HAD an endgame of 100/100, power creep means they had to keep coming up with ways to give a challenge to really really old men and women who should retire.
    Nobody's forcing you to kill yourself, retire, delete, or anything really, but that doesn't stop anyone from providing an incentive to try a new story.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ariden View Post
      Additionally, I think you should be able to overcome your negative traits. You can learn 13 languages but you can’t learn to read? Why not have negative traits, which are obstacles, have a pathway to overcome. Like if you improve your speech to 50 then you stop stuttering, or if you see blood enough and keep passing out at a certain point you get over it. This allows characters to grow and develop overtime.
      I don't agree that negative traits should be able to be overcome, those negatives are the balance to your positives, if you have the ability to overcome them, then you're just giving yourself extra positives for free. That's unbalancing.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Lantraste View Post

        Spend 44000 rps on stats and god only knows how many hours gaining thousands of combat ranks to log in one day and find that your awesome combat character is now at a disadvantage of up to 30 points because staff made a change, then we'll see if you agree that -something- should have been done in the first place. It's a tough pill to swallow.

        I understand that this is an RPG and that I'm a piece of garbage for just caring about the combat system, but even what's thought to me a "minor" change at face value could have far-reaching implications. I thought that the least they could do is offer us an opportunity to start over with a nice VC and spare us the mockery that the chopping block sometimes is, especially when level 10's are being handed out at parchment drop events for free. It's looking more and more like staff would rather combat-oriented folks just not play their game though. Currently working on a character that was rolled before trait changes is almost pointless when you realize just how damn impossible it is to overcome even a 15 point stat bonus in the end game.
        I'm going to respond only to one aspect of this. When you spend RPs, you spend them with contemporary understanding, and for contemporary purpose. You have no right to expect that that expenditure will have long-term value. Spending RPs does not entitle you to complain if the thing you spent it on doesn't do (with a rebalance) what you wanted it to do. That's a fallacy in regards to how you view your expenditure.

        I'm assuming you spent them on stats. Your stats are still better by the amount you spent on them. That hasn't changed. What has changed is that you may not be a God anymore. What happens if the GMs drastically reduce the effect of stats? Are you going to complain then, even though it's a vitally needed change? In the end, your strength is still greater, or speed faster, etc, etc.

        The argument that, "It should be retroactively applicable to everyone, and we should be able to ADD ONLY new positive and negative traits" is a reasonable one, and I can get that. The argument, "I wasted those RPs because you changed this!" is not, because you still gained the primary benefit from them; it's just the implications that changed.

        GMs should never hesitate to make necessary changes because of previous RPs expenditures or expectations of players.
        Those who are afraid of the dark have never seen what the light can do.

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        • #34
          Now that I think about it, here's a change we should absolutely make... characters age with time. Everyone starts at 18 yrs old. Once you hit 30, your stats drop by a point each year. When you hit somewhere between 70-80, you die.

          Instant resolution to people worrying about perma-god characters.
          Those who are afraid of the dark have never seen what the light can do.

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          • #35
            Negative traits should not be overcame, its negative to balance. The suggestion of aging only would increase people who play one toon and invest in them however to find something that doesnít. Better resolution @trait reset just like traits first came out problem solved.
            "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Catuluscaesar View Post
              Now that I think about it, here's a change we should absolutely make... characters age with time. Everyone starts at 18 yrs old. Once you hit 30, your stats drop by a point each year. When you hit somewhere between 70-80, you die.

              Instant resolution to people worrying about perma-god characters.
              That's stupid on every level, including physical.

              No one is a god character in this game. Literally no one. Syden can be dropped. Ciaran can be dropped. Felisin, Elowynn, Kabar, Daydro. Literally anyone can be dropped. The min gains of this game are so insane and almost unnecessary that there isn't much point to them aside from 1 v 1, with the current 'hip weapon of the month' plus RNG rolls.

              If you want any of those characters dead, get you a hit squad of 3-5 mid tier, minimum invested 3k TCR across the board and work as a team. Wait for RNG Jesus to smile on you, and use cheap tactics to kill them.

              'god characters' aren't a thing.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by VBaehr View Post

                That's stupid on every level, including physical.

                No one is a god character in this game. Literally no one. Syden can be dropped. Ciaran can be dropped. Felisin, Elowynn, Kabar, Daydro. Literally anyone can be dropped. The min gains of this game are so insane and almost unnecessary that there isn't much point to them aside from 1 v 1, with the current 'hip weapon of the month' plus RNG rolls.

                If you want any of those characters dead, get you a hit squad of 3-5 mid tier, minimum invested 3k TCR across the board and work as a team. Wait for RNG Jesus to smile on you, and use cheap tactics to kill them.

                'god characters' aren't a thing.
                But it would be so much easier for the person suggesting that to compete with the folks you named if most of the top end combat characters were suddenly ner.... oh wait... nevermind.

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                • #38
                  Cheap tricks, RNG Jesus... that's not a strategy if it can only happen one in a hundred times. That's a statistical error.
                  Those who are afraid of the dark have never seen what the light can do.

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                  • #39
                    I'm not sure I agree with some of the arguments and your reasoning behind them. I like playing a hero character, and I can assure you my character has far worse stats and ranks than 90% of the people commenting that they too want to have a hero character.

                    The gameworld in TEC is HOSTILE. There are no real 'safe' areas in my opinion, as my character has witnessed Cineran and aralex attacks in places like the baths. There is a very, very nice amount of opportunity to play a hero character in TEC, and if you already have 'outstanding' across the board in your stats and 10k+ combat ranks you are entirely and utterly capable of playing a hero character. The vast majority of TEC is PvE, not PvP. The vast majority of bandits that go PvP ARE NOT the super uber top end characters with 30k+ combat ranks and outstanding across the board stats. They're PCs that are deliberately targeting new VC10's and characters of that caliber, they're absolutely going out of their way to avoid the Elowynn's, Syden's, and Ciaran's of the gameworld. And those characters, and yours, are still going to be entirely capable of wiping the floor with a 3k TCR combat character with mediocre stats compared to yours.

                    The vast, VAST majority of the things your character is actually needed to be a help with and step up to be a hero is still PvE. And this advantage that you're all seeing as absolutely game breaking isn't going to suddenly make your character incapable of killing aralex, killing Cinerans, and saving the day.

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                    • #40
                      It doesn't matter where someone was when they were training. They did put in the effort and time to accomplish their goals. Don't say because he was at work it doesn't count because that is a silly argument. Really this comes down to an argument about paying customers vs. non-paying customers. The game is viable as a business venture because of the people that pay for SP and subscribe to get the RP's which are mostly spend on stats. All the older characters are saying is give them the ability to play under the new rules without having to sacrifice all there time and effort. This is a reasonable request it isn't so they can get some OP benefit it's to get the same as your new character.

                      On the discord today we talked about a couple of different solutions that I think would work and are worthy of further debate.

                      1. Allow every character to reset their sheets. Re-roll using the new attributes/traits mechanics and then give them back their RP's spent against stats.

                      2. Allow characters to re-pick their traits under the new system. They will have the option of keeping their current setup or to re-enter the trait selection process.

                      3. Allow characters to buy a reset option for their traits as an RP expenditure. Example 2500 RP's to remove and replace one trait or 5000 RP's to re-pick all traits.

                      These aren't my suggestions, I'm just trying to distill them so that they can be put up for debate. My hope is that the GM's will see this discussion and include the playerbase in changes like this that have a significant impact.

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                      • #41
                        Ariden, hot mess didn't say he did it with effort, hot mess said he scripted, ie. zero effort, logging in and pressing start on your autobot trainer isn't effort, it's kinda cheating.

                        Now, I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just saying for clarity, the comment wasn't about effort but about there being zero effort involved.

                        to your points:
                        1- prove all those stat boosts weren't bought on sale, and refund them at full price? sale price? and then they gotta buy the stats again, and redo the courses? Sounds like a nightmare for everyone involved from gms to players.

                        2- that's also not a great option, because it's not just about getting an extra trait, that would fundamentally change who characters are, picked superstitious fears? been afraid of magic for 20 years? now you know how limiting it is and want to be a totally different character. Ok, @chop, and play a vc. (example) They let old characters pick new traits when there was no such thing as traits, not the same.

                        3 - see point 2.

                        This is my opinion, and in no way reflects the opinion of other people, including the staff at skotos, or the gms in charge of TEC (unless they agree)

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                        • #42
                          I would not reroll traits on Kered , he has none. I do think the older non Kereds should be given the choice. This change does not reflect how fixing balance by chopping is logical. And yes the change by allowing old characters to pick traits is exactly the same thing. Hereís a new free trait is literally adding another trait. I personally think itís basic common sense.
                          "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                          • #43
                            it doesn't apply to everyone across the board kered. People from Iridine and Altene do not HAVE any automatic traits to get a fourth trait now, so why should it apply to anyone?
                            My example applied to everyone, nobody, across the board, had traits, when they introduced them.
                            You chose not to take any, they chose to take the ones they took.

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                            • #44
                              This still applies to everyone, I think thatís where we will disagree. If a game changing event happens in every mmo I play for balance issues old or new are given the same treatment. Again personal opinion only and in the grand scheme of things is completely irrelevant as we all can voice what we think is fair and it doesnít matter since it was already stated this is the change and thatís final.
                              "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Kered View Post
                                in the grand scheme of things is completely irrelevant as we all can voice what we think is fair and it doesnít matter since it was already stated this is the change and thatís final.
                                Quoted for truth.

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