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The Great Skotos Split Is Here [UPDATED]

The long-planned Skotos split is here. We are going to be separating Skotos into the four games that we're passing off to individual players (Marrach, TEC, the game formerly known as Ironclaw Online, the game formerly known as Lazarus Sleeping), and in the near future the core Skotos site will shutdown.

Here's how it will work:
* On Monday, we will turn off the ability to make any purchases through the main site. This will be the end of credit card purchases for Skotos games.
* We will run final automated credit card purchases on Tuesday morning. This is typical, in that our regular subscriptions are always set to run on the 1st through the 28th.
* On Wednesday, we will begin converting the games over to the new auth server that I've been working on for the last month and a half. All data will be converted over from the moment I grab the database. This means that all of your account information, including all payments (but not including any credit card information or Paypal information) will be duped to all the games: you'll be able to play any of them for the time you'd previously paid at the main Skotos site.
* We'll then start integrating the individual sites for each game with the new stand-alone setup.
* And likely I'll be resolving bugs in the auth server that only turn up through extensive usage.
* Meanwhile, we'll start handing off games to the individuals who will be running it in the future. I'm at this point over the time I'd initially committed to Skotos by a bit more than three weeks, but I'm expecting I'll need to offer support a little into May to make sure everyone is running well and that I've helped Christopher, Skotos, and the game leads deal with any intricacies of the hand-off.
* We'll request that all games remove all information from users who didn't stick with their game within a year.

I hope this will go as smoothly as possible. There will surely be bumps in the road. In particular, expect some random downtimes on Wednesday, when I convert over the games to the new servers, and expect the potential for problems on *next* Thursday, when I see how things work in the new setup.

A Few Updates as of 5/3:

1.) Castle Marrach, TEC, and Allegory of Empires are now split out from the main Skotos UserDB, which is the first (and biggest) step in separating these games. Multiversal Revelations will follow on Monday.

2.) Each site has a new login page of the form login.itsdomainname. This is the proper place to login to that game, and where you should access all UserDB functionality. Anything you do on the main Skotos users pages will no longer be reflected. Yes, that means you should be using the new pages to update your accounts, purchase months of play, and purchase subscriptions. Credit card payments are no longer possible, but Paypal is.

3.) Skotos is still running the games as of this moment, but they'll be transferred to the individual teams by this time next month.

4.) We've had some problems with credit cards continuing to run on the older UserDB system. We've refunded any bills that went through on the main system following the split, and apologize for the inconvenience. The plan is to turn the old UserDB off tomorrow, so that will absolutely stop the bills at this point. If you were accidentally billed, do note both that the amount was refunded the same day AND it isn't reflected on the new systems. [And as of Monday morning, those old charges seem to have been halted entirely.]

5.) We've discovered that about 20 accounts have credits of various amounts of them. This is a concept that is no longer supported in any meaningful way on the new UserDB, so we'll convert those credits to days of play at the most generous ratio.
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Character Traits Update - Feedback Requested

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  • Ilkilyn
    replied
    A real ressurection of the BRP would be nice

    Leave a comment:


  • Lantraste
    replied
    Japes did something similar with promises of prizes for those who won their testing tournament rounds. The players who haven't quit since are still waiting on their promised prizes. It was a pretty good time though.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ariden
    replied
    Bring back the beta room and get the players that know mechanics well to work through some iterations and provide feedback. I by the way am not putting myself forward there are much better players that KNOW combat that could be a huge help in this endeavor. So take advantage of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • pineapple_shoes
    replied
    Originally posted by pineapple_shoes View Post
    For me it's less about anxiety and more about the concern that we move from one funky system to another.
    I don't like the way this reads. Clarifying- For me it's less about a desire for immediate action/satisfaction, but more about the process of learning and understanding the impacts of new systems and changes.

    Leave a comment:


  • pineapple_shoes
    replied
    **Reposting because first time got deleted by spam filter thing**

    Thanks for the reply. For me it's less about anxiety and more about the concern that we move from one funky system to another. The old changes lacked community input and as a result the troubleshooting seemed flawed in its methodology and oftentimes short-sighted in its scope. The most recent changes were meant to be a boon to players but we as a community saw and understood the hope, but again felt frustrated by the fact that certain aspects were short-sighted and flawed in nature. My thought of beginning with a couple of bad traits would be just a small rollback on the severity of some of the most notorious problems and serve in part as a "beta" for some of the bigger and upcoming changes and would likely overall help maybe find a balance and understanding of when a trait is TOO severe vs not severe ENOUGH to worry about. As it is we seem to have those as absolute values (examples: Fear of Magic cuts people off from major aspects of the game and thus un-fun. Vs Gullible has no tangible negative for most chars unless you chose to RP it out). The goal would be to find a happier middle ground to inform the bigger overall project while improving the gameplay quality for players in the process.

    A bigger aspect of this is the communication. Forum chatter here is decent but I believe the community at large would love to hear a more intimate and fluid conversation about ideas and methodology. By its nature, forum discussion is often cold, lacking vocal context, and polarizing as we have to just wall-of-text our ideas or clarity. An issue like traits needs some fluidity of discussion and some back and forth/input from the community. Some in-game testing is a great way to help open that conversation and gives everyone a launching point or bountiful discussion about ideas and edits.

    I have confidence you'll keep us updated, but i'm personally afraid that a major overhaul will lack diverse perspectives and will largely be done "behind the curtain" as it has been in the past

    Leave a comment:


  • Siddhe
    replied
    Originally posted by pineapple_shoes View Post
    I also want to take a moment to suggest that maybe certain aspects get done in smaller chunks. Perhaps like a "good faith" kind of bargain. As per my earlier tome that i posted I personally believe a complete overhaul is needed but is there any small stuff that can be done in short term just to improve quality of life? While I am selfish in some of my reasoning for this, I think toning down some of the HUGE negative impacts of certain traits would be a wonderful method of appetizing the playerbase. Traits like squeamish, stutterer, fear of magic, berserker could maybe be tweaked to be less-severe in their hard mechanical aspects. It would do a lot for us to get to talk out some of these things "in real time" and I think would help to show us the goals and direction the GM staff are looking to move toward with a couple minor edits and quality-of-life improvements.
    While I get that you're anxious for changes, making a bunch of other small changes is just going to make things worse and more convoluted to solve the problem in the long run. I promise that the trait system is a priority for us, and it's being focused on heavily. We appreciate your patience while it's being worked on, and as I have more information about what a new system might look like, I will share. Promise.

    Leave a comment:


  • pineapple_shoes
    replied
    So I just read the Roadmap posting and I would love to hear more about this. Traits have long since been a soapbox issue for me but I'm feeling a bit skeptical in my understanding of things. While I am sure there's more info to come, is there any chance we will get to talk some of this out in a way that is different than Forum posts? Is there any chance we can get something like a TECtalk where a GM can field questions and clarify some of the details without the coldness or rigidity of TEC forum posts?

    I also want to take a moment to suggest that maybe certain aspects get done in smaller chunks. Perhaps like a "good faith" kind of bargain. As per my earlier tome that i posted I personally believe a complete overhaul is needed but is there any small stuff that can be done in short term just to improve quality of life? While I am selfish in some of my reasoning for this, I think toning down some of the HUGE negative impacts of certain traits would be a wonderful method of appetizing the playerbase. Traits like squeamish, stutterer, fear of magic, berserker could maybe be tweaked to be less-severe in their hard mechanical aspects. It would do a lot for us to get to talk out some of these things "in real time" and I think would help to show us the goals and direction the GM staff are looking to move toward with a couple minor edits and quality-of-life improvements.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ilkilyn
    replied
    Originally posted by Siddhe View Post

    We are working on an updated plan. When I have details that I can share, I absolutely will. It's one of those slow and methodical so that further tweaks will be unnecessary kinds of things.
    We appreciate the staff continuing to put effort into ensuring the playerbase is heard and action is taken to produce the most equitable solution (even if we know we can't please -everyone-).

    I do want to reiterate and confirm Ghuan's point that the primary concern is the affect on the end game meta of stats. It's not just that a trait allows an early boost to a stat, it's that the extra trait can effectively allow new character identical to my own to have a permanent advantage over my current character. Being able to add lets say Nimble feet, would mean their character would always have this +10 (or so) defense compared to my character, and I'd always feel like I missed out and wasted money and time dumped into this character that is effectively capped below theirs, even though we made the exact same choices and investment.

    Group A seems to be of the mindset "+10? Sounds pretty minimal what's the big deal, change is good"

    Group B is of the mindset "I've spend 20 years playing this game with sub-par characters, learning the mechanics to understand the meta and identifying the most effective way to roll the exact character I want. Yesterday I pulled the trigger to invest thousands of RP's and @chop my main to have a chance at a real top end meta character. And today the meta changed. **** me..."

    Leave a comment:


  • Siddhe
    replied
    Originally posted by jkidd View Post
    any updates on fixing the char gen/traits disaster?
    We are working on an updated plan. When I have details that I can share, I absolutely will. It's one of those slow and methodical so that further tweaks will be unnecessary kinds of things.

    Leave a comment:


  • TEC_Ghuan
    replied
    Originally posted by sammus12 View Post
    Not an active player but I'm going to weigh in anyway:

    This change is good, y'all. Understandably, some may find it unfair, perhaps selfishly so, but that is to be expected and is a perfectly natural reaction. However, stuff like this ultimately makes the game more appealing to (re)play. I am most certainly tempted by it, as I'm sure others are too, and if that is not a good thing for TEC, I don't know what is.

    I know change is almost never comfortable, not everybody is going to be happy with it, yet it's absolutely necessary for this game to continue and thrive into the future. You can either embrace the change with that in mind or protect your current investments and watch the game stagnate.

    But, hey, that's just my opinion, anyway.
    As someone that is also not very active and that is unaffected by these changes since I am no longer part of the top-end/meta, I can see why these changes are very problematic for certain people. It was indeed an interesting change and one that was necessary, but in my mind it is nowhere near the change that it should have been.

    I feel like mostly everyone in these forums fail to see the problem for what it really is. The traits themselves aren't broken although the entire trait system and character generator could be thoroughly upgraded to offer a more interesting outcome.

    The one true issue here is simple: the current stats system. Sceadu has made a change some time ago that allows characters to bypass the old max of 200 in any given stat and THAT is the true problem here. It was a needless and poorly thought out change that, in my mind, was likely fueled as a way to funnel in more micro-transactions. He tried to make it sound like the old stat system was unbalanced and didn't work as intended and yadda yadda, but that is completely false. Stat-boosting traits worked fine before - they gave you an early advantage and made you have to spend less role-points on your stats. They didn't have to boost your stats past the 200 threshold, they already made you save anywhere from 500-3500 RPs.

    The stat change also offset the existing balance when it comes to actions and skills that were designed to function based on a maximum stat cap of 200. I did make a prior post regarding this issue and whoever it was decided to delete it in that other thread. It's really simple, if the person who designed for example the FOOT STOMP skill wanted you to reach a maximum efficacy of 75% knockdown with 200 strength, it will now result in a higher % because you can now reach far above 200 strength. This example is completely fictional and just serves as that - an example.

    How to fix it is simple:

    1) Revert to the previous 200 stat cap.
    2) Reimburse the RPs spent for the characters who are above 200 in any stat at a rate of 1:100 (same price as purchasing stat increases).
    3) Revamp the character generator.
    4) Revamp the traits system.

    That being said, I don't think anyone that is currently on staff understands how to make a compelling system that will not be riddled with penalties and really poorly thought out game design mechanics. The stat change is, in my mind, the worst game design decision that has been made in the history of the game. There is nothing else that even comes close to it and I don't have any faith in the current staff to fix it.

    Originally posted by Siddhe View Post
    Most people recognize that an update to the trait system was badly needed. What we are hearing is that where players are feeling out of line with the recent change, is that you feel that it has acted as a hamstring for older characters that fall outside the new trait system.

    Please take a moment to provide your constructive feedback on how you would remedy this perceived hamstring.

    Would simply allowing everyone to reselect traits be considered equitable? Is the main concern with Cineran characters and the extra freebie? If this was modified to be more in line with what is perceived for other nationalities, would that suffice? Is everything basically fine now that people have had time to digest things?
    Please take the time and re-read Siddhe's post regarding this matter. Personally I consider the current staff as clueless when it comes to game design. To me it reads as "We have no idea why people are angry, we've lost a whole bunch of players because of this, please help us!". It's like they didn't even realize that the stats change are the origin of the issue. And if you consider one of Tale's post on the subject in the other thread (a post that was deleted, by the way), he didn't even understand what Sceadu's stats change had actually done to the stat system.
    Last edited by TEC_Ghuan; 04-06-2019, 10:24 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ozymandius
    replied
    Originally posted by sammus12 View Post
    Not an active player but I'm going to weigh in anyway:

    This change is good, y'all. Understandably, some may find it unfair, perhaps selfishly so, but that is to be expected and is a perfectly natural reaction. However, stuff like this ultimately makes the game more appealing to (re)play. I am most certainly tempted by it, as I'm sure others are too, and if that is not a good thing for TEC, I don't know what is.

    I know change is almost never comfortable, not everybody is going to be happy with it, yet it's absolutely necessary for this game to continue and thrive into the future. You can either embrace the change with that in mind or protect your current investments and watch the game stagnate.

    But, hey, that's just my opinion, anyway.







    It's very easy to say this as someone who is essentially unaffected by it. And yes, bringing people BACK to the game is very important but so is retention. Something pushed you away at one point. Something you felt was not fair. Or lack of play time. Or lack of engagement. Who knows. But this cycle of "renaissance" and then "death" must be stopped. The way you stop it is by listening to your playerbase/subscribers/customers. The NGE (look it up) in SWG killed it. But they still allowed you to respec even there. I don't think that's something that's too much to ask.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ariden
    replied
    You're right that change is good, if it's done in a thought out way. I don't believe this is the case because of the far-reaching consequences of this tweak and instead of opening up other races it has limited choices in combat characters even further. The problem is that for people that have invested countless hours and significant amount of money to have a character that can't compete is stupid and game wrecking. Give everyone a chance to opt-in to this new system and most people will be ok with the change. And it is not an understatement to say this is game breaking when people will save up to get a Superior over an excellent weapon to get a +1 and this change gives an extra trait, which is much much more than a +1.

    This thread has pretty much stopped because everyone that has an opinion and is willing to express it already has. If you read the comments the majority of the people posting aren't happy with it at all but at this point there's not much more to be said.

    Leave a comment:


  • sammus12
    replied
    Not an active player but I'm going to weigh in anyway:

    This change is good, y'all. Understandably, some may find it unfair, perhaps selfishly so, but that is to be expected and is a perfectly natural reaction. However, stuff like this ultimately makes the game more appealing to (re)play. I am most certainly tempted by it, as I'm sure others are too, and if that is not a good thing for TEC, I don't know what is.

    I know change is almost never comfortable, not everybody is going to be happy with it, yet it's absolutely necessary for this game to continue and thrive into the future. You can either embrace the change with that in mind or protect your current investments and watch the game stagnate.

    But, hey, that's just my opinion, anyway.








    Leave a comment:


  • jkidd
    replied
    any updates on fixing the char gen/traits disaster?

    Leave a comment:


  • mikeand
    replied
    Since we are reviewing bad decisions, can we bring back think-net for covers and make hoods hide body types?

    Leave a comment:

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