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Character Traits System Proposal

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Pranzor View Post

    We will not be refunding role points for bonuses received from traits. Those bonuses were not paid for by role points and do not warrant a refund. Ariden is correct in his assumption that you did not pay for attribute increases up to 240 but instead paid for attribute increases to 200.

    In contrast, we will also not be charging role points for the negative bonus lost when changing a negative or neutral trait.
    Hearing that officially from a mechanics GM clarifies a lot, thank you.

    I think this makes sense. Players didnít pay for more than 200, and the bonus comes and goes with the trait itself. No refunds needed.

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    • #32
      I am dumb, please help clarify this for me. I've read it multiple times and it's still not processing. I'll use speed for an example because I know without a doubt I had this maxed out. I'm a little fuzzy on dexterity at that point though. I had it to Outstanding, with no ability to increase it. They raised the cap past 200, and with my traits, I then had the ability to increase it further. I very much had to use rps for stat increases to get it to remarkable. If my traits were to change and drop my speed so it caps at 200 instead of over, that's wasted rp's, yes?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Dogg View Post
        I am dumb, please help clarify this for me. I've read it multiple times and it's still not processing. I'll use speed for an example because I know without a doubt I had this maxed out. I'm a little fuzzy on dexterity at that point though. I had it to Outstanding, with no ability to increase it. They raised the cap past 200, and with my traits, I then had the ability to increase it further. I very much had to use rps for stat increases to get it to remarkable. If my traits were to change and drop my speed so it caps at 200 instead of over, that's wasted rp's, yes?
        Your RPs brought it to 200, the trait took it beyond that.

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        • #34
          Using your example, you're gaining a 5% bonus to speed from having nimble feet. Your base stat (what you spend RPs on) was either 190 or 191 (I never picked this trait before the changes so unsure which way it rounded) because the game checked to make sure a stat didn't exceed 200 points AFTER the bonus was applied. The change was made to check for the 200 point stat BEFORE the bonus was applied. That's why you could suddenly buy 9 or 10 more points for speed. If for some reason you chose to get rid of nimble feet now you'd just have 200 speed again like you did before. No wasted role points. It'd be 200 * 1 instead of 200 * 1.05 like you have now.



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          • #35
            Originally posted by Dogg View Post
            I am dumb, please help clarify this for me. I've read it multiple times and it's still not processing. I'll use speed for an example because I know without a doubt I had this maxed out. I'm a little fuzzy on dexterity at that point though. I had it to Outstanding, with no ability to increase it. They raised the cap past 200, and with my traits, I then had the ability to increase it further. I very much had to use rps for stat increases to get it to remarkable. If my traits were to change and drop my speed so it caps at 200 instead of over, that's wasted rp's, yes?
            Before the change to attributes where traits could push bonuses over 200 and cap negatives under 200, the ceiling for attributes was at 200. If you had a trait that gave a bonus to the attribute, your base stat would be capped below 200. That means that you actually saved quite a few role points by not having to take the base stat all the way to 200 under the old system to achieve the maximum. If the traits are removed, then the stat returns to 200. You did not lose out on your base attribute but instead gave up the bonus from the trait itself.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Dogg View Post
              I am dumb, please help clarify this for me. I've read it multiple times and it's still not processing. I'll use speed for an example because I know without a doubt I had this maxed out. I'm a little fuzzy on dexterity at that point though. I had it to Outstanding, with no ability to increase it. They raised the cap past 200, and with my traits, I then had the ability to increase it further. I very much had to use rps for stat increases to get it to remarkable. If my traits were to change and drop my speed so it caps at 200 instead of over, that's wasted rp's, yes?
              Alright, so here goes:

              Nimble feet used to give more or less 5-6 bonus to speed under the old system. Traits + your stats couldn't get above 200. The system calculated it so that you had your BASE stat and your ACTUAL stat (the one with the traits added, the one that shows on your stats sheet). By using your RPs, you managed to increase your speed up to 194-195. That number is your BASE stat. You couldn't bring it any higher because you had nimble feet as a trait which gave you that +5-6 bonus to your speed. Your ACTUAL stat was 200. The system was capped at 200, so you couldn't train your BASE stat any higher.

              The new system made it so that no matter what traits you have, you are now able to bring your BASE stat all the way up to 200. This means that you can now spend RPs to increase your speed all the way up from 194-195 to 200. So now, since you have the nimble feet trait, it gets added on top or your BASE stat. It then becomes your ACTUAL stat. I don't know if the bonuses changed or not so I can't say exactly what the number is now, but your ACTUAL stat is at 200+nimble feet bonus. If the values would be identical to the old system, your ACTUAL stat would now be 205-206.

              The RPs you spent carried on and allowed you to reach higher than 200. This is how it works for positive traits. Let's talk about negative traits now.

              Let's say that finesse gives a +20 bonus to dexterity at 200 dexterity and a -15 penalty to strength. Your maximum that strength can be is 200 BASE stat, but since you have a -15 penalty, your ACTUAL stat will not be able to reach any higher than 185.

              I hope that I managed to explain it clearly. I can try to provide more examples if you like.

              ---

              Thank you Pranzor for that post. That is how I believed it worked, hence the confusion in my other post when discussing with Pineapple_shoes. I will edit my other post to avoid any further confusion. This is the kind of communication that is endearing to see and that has been missing for way too long.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Pranzor View Post

                Before the change to attributes where traits could push bonuses over 200 and cap negatives under 200, the ceiling for attributes was at 200. If you had a trait that gave a bonus to the attribute, your base stat would be capped below 200. That means that you actually saved quite a few role points by not having to take the base stat all the way to 200 under the old system to achieve the maximum. If the traits are removed, then the stat returns to 200. You did not lose out on your base attribute but instead gave up the bonus from the trait itself.
                Yep. Like Pranzor said here, the only thing that traits did under the old system was to save you RPs when it comes to stat effects. It literally did nothing else. For example, that nimble feet you chose in the old system? It likely saved you 5-600 RPs on speed and 5-600 RPs on agility. That trait was worth 1000-1200 RPs.

                Athletic, Mountain Lungs, etc. were by far better traits if you had the RPs to spend on stats because they had permanent effects that could not be overcome by spending RPs.

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                • #38
                  I'm pretty sure the others explained it well, but to reiterate for those not understanding how it is ever since the change of traits affecting maxes.

                  with steady hands (assuming bonus is 20% - this is NOT verified on my end so could be more or less):
                  current dex: 180 actual max: 200 effective dex: 216
                  spend 2000 rps for 20 dex points
                  current dex: 200 actual max: 200 effective dex: 240

                  You purchased 20 points, but got a 24 point bonus due to the 20% multiplier from the trait. Which is also why it took -fewer- course successes to get there
                  So you, use the premium feature to see you have 20 increases left in dex. You now -know- you're at 180 base dex, and should display as the word level for 216

                  180 -> 216
                  181 -> 217.2
                  182 -> 218.4
                  183 -> 219.6
                  184 -> 220.8
                  185 -> 222
                  186 -> 223.2
                  187 -> 224.4
                  188 -> 225.6
                  189 -> 226.8
                  190 -> 228
                  191 -> 229.2
                  192 -> 230.4
                  193 -> 231.6
                  194 -> 232.8
                  195 -> 234
                  196 -> 235.2
                  197 -> 236.4
                  198 -> 237.6
                  199 -> 238.8
                  200 -> 240

                  The above may also mean my assumption of word change points is off a little. Anyone mind correcting the below if they know better? Would have been able to pinpoint them if I knew this before


                  101-110 - Average
                  111-120 - Slightly Above Average
                  121-130 - Above Average
                  131-140 - Fairly Good
                  141-150 - Good
                  151-165 - Very Good
                  166-180 - Great
                  181-190 - Exceptional
                  191-200 - Outstanding
                  201-210 - Remarkable
                  211-220 - Extraordinary
                  221-235? - Phenomenal
                  ???
                  250?-2?? - Incredible

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                  • #39
                    I am going to take out the guess work as far as the descriptive words for attributes goes.

                    < 50 abysmal
                    50-60 very poor
                    61-70 poor
                    71-90 below average
                    91-100 slightly below average
                    101-110 average
                    111-120 slightly above average
                    121-130 above average
                    131-140 fairly good
                    141-150 good
                    151-165 very good
                    166-180 great
                    181-190 exceptional
                    191-200 outstanding
                    201-210 remarkable
                    211-220 extraordinary
                    221-230 phenomenal
                    231-240 incredible
                    241-250 inhuman
                    > 250 superhuman
                    Last edited by Pranzor; 05-16-2019, 02:52 PM. Reason: I missed "below average".

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                    • #40
                      Well, then. Awesome.

                      > 250 Pranzor

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                      • #41
                        I am loving this discussion and the fact we are even having it.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Pranzor View Post
                          I am going to take out the guess work as far as the descriptive words for attributes goes.

                          < 50 abysmal

                          50-60 very poor

                          61-70 poor

                          91-100 slightly below average
                          I don't mean to be a pest, but shouldn't that read:
                          0-60 abysmal
                          61-70 very poor
                          71-80 poor
                          81-90 below average
                          91-100 slightly below average

                          Thanks for sharing!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TEC_Ghuan View Post

                            I don't mean to be a pest, but shouldn't that read:
                            0-60 abysmal
                            61-70 very poor
                            71-80 poor
                            81-90 below average
                            91-100 slightly below average

                            Thanks for sharing!
                            I fixed the original post. The numbers were correct but "below average" was inadvertently omitted.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              One thing that I feel has been left out so far in these discussions is the National Traits which were at the center of the issues brought forward in the other thread.

                              How does everyone feel about them? Should they remain? I feel that in terms of role-play and diversity, National Traits AND stats being directly tied to your nation in the character generator severely limit our characters' diversity. For years we have had way too many Altenes, Cinerans and Parcines because they were the optimal nations to choose - not only because of the National Traits but also because of the National stats.

                              In an effort to encourage diversity and role-play, should National Traits be axed in favor of Profession related traits? I've brought it up in my original post in this thread and I still feel that it would be better overall. Not only would it allow us to customize our characters more efficiently toward our chosen professions/roles within the game, but it would also us to choose the Nation that we wish to RP as. If National Traits continue being exclusive to particular Nations, we will continue choosing our Nations based on the traits we want and not what we want to role-play. I'm not going to pretend that's not the case as I've made plenty of Cinerans myself just for the stats and the Blade Mastery offering. Sure, I've always RP'ed it out, but mechanically speaking it was the -only- choice that made sense to me. I know of quite a few people who have been penalized for choosing different nations because they wished to play other nations and RP them out.

                              What do you all think about this?

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                              • #45
                                Iridine national trait - under siege: years of constant warfare have lead citizens to increased endurance + %
                                "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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