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Character Traits System Proposal

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  • Travius
    Maybe I am on the other side on this one.

    Do you know how many characters I deleted and how many time I started over because I have been told over and over that this will NEVER happen?

    Also, powergamers rejoice, you now will NEVER be caught, giving me little to no incentive to continue.

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  • Elowynn
    This peek into the GMs' thoughts so far into the traits rehaul is super encouraging. This collaborative method might take longer, spur both useless and not so useless discussion, and the eventual finalized plans will probably not satisfy absolutely everyone, but I'm stoked to see the door to communication cracking open. Kudos.

    1) How will stats be affected by trait rerolls? What happens to someone with 215 dex when they lose Steady Hands? What happens to someone with 165 dex when they lose Steady Hands? Does overage go inert? Does overage get the RPS spend refunded?

    This could open up a whole mess. I assume, I very much hope that: sub-200 stats are not affected when a stat affecting trait is removed, because (my hope is) that stats are solidified upon character roll, and not artificially boosted by traits. GMs, is this the case? If not, how will this be addressed?

    a) Removing traits should not affect sub-200 stats.
    b) Overage goes inert when a trait raising max to over 200 is removed.
    c) Overage does not get refunded in rps, because it can be re-activated if the trait returns.

    2) Traits inherently are meant to solidify a character's personality, with some permanence. For folks' personalities to change overnight is going to be... odd. The onus will have to be on each player to RP this, successfully or not, on their own. However, I feel that there should still be mechanical restrictions on switching out traits willy nilly.

    a) I agree that the first reroll should indeed be free to, so that the playing field is accessible to everyone.
    b) I would prefer traits be swapped one at a time, to more "organically" reflect characters' slow personality changes. I realize this is difficult, as sometimes swapping a trait has a cascading effect (for example, trading Mountain Lungs for Athletic leaves an extra point, which the player will want to utilize.)
    c) Trait rerolls after that should be far more expensive than 1000. I think 5000, or even 10000 is far more suitable. Changing a character's whole build should be a -big deal-. By charging a lot, folks would be rightfully discouraged from "casually" changing their characters' personality just for minmaxing purposes. If costs a lot, it needs to be done carefully and with much prep. The bad downhill effect of traits being cheap to reroll is that someone like me (a powergaming minmaxer), well, I'm gonna take Self Train every time it's convenient to me, and swap out Illiterate only when I'm in constable recruitment (or whatever, just an example) ain't in session. That's...weird, bad gaming of the system.
    d) I suggest a cooldown period between rerolls and trait swaps. Perhaps 1 IG year. Perhaps 1 IRL year. Thoughts, folks?

    The discussion is interesting. I look forward to checking back for more folks' input, and GMs' eventual finalization of a plan. Overall, looks promising. Cheers all around, folks.

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  • ArchMagi
    questions: when you say no point value, and then later say up to four positives... do the national traits count against those four?
    What's the plan for people who have maximized their stats with role points, and course work, or story points, and then change traits so that maybe now they have a bonus to dex instead of a bonus to agility... do they keep the over 200 agility, and can now get over 200 dex on top of that? What about the old characters who have 200 everything, and then change traits to pick up a bonus, do they lose stats that they paid for, or do they keep them? How about if they don't change traits, do they get to keep stats they don't qualify for, but paid for?

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  • TEC_Ghuan
    Originally posted by Siddhe View Post
    After significant back and forth, we're ready to share the updated traits system framework proposal. Your constructive feedback is welcome and encouraged. Once players have had time to share their feedback, and staff has had the opportunity to review it and incorporate where appropriate, we'll be back with a more detailed version of the framework, including traits.
    1. Traits themselves will get attention. The under-utilized traits will get particular attention to make them more interesting/viable. New traits will be added.
    2. National trait offerings will be expanded. They will not be stat-related, and as they will have no point value, everyone can select one (possibly more) for free.
    3. The amount of traits you can have at once will be increased. As an example, you may be able to select up to four positives, a neutral, and up to four negatives (depending on overall point value).
    4. Everyone will receive a free, one-time use of @new-traits. This will be optional.
    5. You will be able to re-trait a character at any time, through RP- or StP-spend. These costs will scale depending on the number of times used. As an example your first paid @new-traits use might be 1k RPs, then 3k RPs, etc. Final numbers TBD.

    #1: When you say that new traits will be added, will these include the ability to modify all of the stats equally as we see fit? For example, we have finesse + steady hands which give a big boost to dexterity, but we only have Ox's grace that gives a bonus to strength. Will a new trait be added to boost strength further on par with those two stacks? Will it be even across the board, allowing us even more freedom in manipulating our bonuses?

    #2: This is a tricky one because no matter what is done, some nations may be perceived as the better choices and others may be neglected due to mechanical benefits -if- the traits are exclusive to a certain nation. Would it make sense to rework National Traits into something else? Like an Innate Trait category where you could choose one free trait that is not exclusive to a nation and could help you specifically to your chosen profession (gladiator, soldier, crafter, trader, etc.)? As an example, the Aestivan's Natural Builder trait could fit in that category, but would no longer be a national trait. It would be a trait that could help you in your Tailoring endeavors since they are crafted items. Innate ability to craft things. Just an idea.

    #3: This will open up more avenues for defining your character and I love it. It will likely become even more interesting with the addition and fine-tuning of traits. Will the National Traits be counted toward this total?

    #4: This is great. This is exactly what everyone has asked for when it comes to traits.

    #5: In regards to the Illiterate trait, would it make sense for someone to suddenly become illiterate after years of being able to read/write? I could see this trait being removed (it makes sense to be able to learn how to read/write), but I couldn't see it being added for a character who has already shown those abilities.

    Once again, thanks for reaching out to the players both for their feedback and for the heads up. This is, hopefully, the way things will always be done going forward. Thanks Siddhe!

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  • Ozymandius
    This is great. I too would like to see some type of echo or menu before accepting the change. This is an awesome step in the right direction. You have the potential to bring people long gone back with this. Bravo.

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  • Tweninger
    I'd first like to start off by saying I like this. I'm more interested to know if we @new-traits how it'll effect our current stats, and if we'd have the ability to see how it effects our stats before we choose to accept or deny the new traits.

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  • Kered
    #4 and #5 You have 100 percent made me personally happy and given everyone a level playing field Bravo

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