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Trait Revamp

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  • #16
    > Blade Mastery: Character causes a higher rate of critical hits with knives, daggers, dirks, and swords. Value: 2

    I think it's great that the description of this trait was expanded to include exactly what it affects. Kudos.

    Overall, I like that certain traits seem to be great to go together towards a certain build. For example; crit build + frenzied reprisal; heavy arms + granite grip; dodge builds; anti feint builds, and so on.

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    • #17
      Does the trait Old Dog also diminish SP gain from using tears in skills below the 4th slot?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Elowynn View Post
        Thank you for the hard work, Pranzor, Senses, Siddhe, and everyone else who worked on the release.

        I haven't had a chance to completely review, but some things stuck out to me that I wanted to mention early:

        > Mobile Skirmisher Character receives a scaling bonus to dodging of up to +20, inversely proportional to the amount of weight carried.

        This needs to be universal feature, not a trait. The point of inherent benefits to less armor is to encourage -all- characters to build multiple sets for different functions. Want to fight aralex? Put on some light armor to be agile on your feet; want to tank? - then uild an iron set, and so forth. Encouraging -all- characters to build multiple sets would inject the economy with spending options.

        > Wrestler: Character does not receive combat penalties for being in a position other than standing. Value: 2

        This looks OP, and not balanced. This looks like a "anti-knockdown/anti-staves" trait that is now nearly a "must have."

        Nevertheless, I am happy to see a lot of work undoubtedly work into this project and has finally come to fruition. Thank you, TEC staff.
        Mobile skirmisher seems pretty OP without it being universal, especially considering I counted 42.5 possible defense from trait picks. That's almost going from average to max agility.

        If wrestler negates the offensive and defensive penalties (including stats), that's going to be very excessive.

        Comment


        • #19
          Siddhe is it possible to have the re-trait reverted on an account if we take a permanent ban from re-traiting ever again?
          Slyteavisius says to Canadadry, "Did someone beat you while explaining how the Beatles were too emo for them or something?"

          Rupert1 cheats, "Jeans are too loud. Nothing says stealth like light white cotton and sunflowers."

          Originally Posted by urek23
          Rules only apply to specific people, something everyone that plays will learn very shortly after they start.

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          • #20
            i also will pay the 5k rps for a 'repick' as well
            Slyteavisius says to Canadadry, "Did someone beat you while explaining how the Beatles were too emo for them or something?"

            Rupert1 cheats, "Jeans are too loud. Nothing says stealth like light white cotton and sunflowers."

            Originally Posted by urek23
            Rules only apply to specific people, something everyone that plays will learn very shortly after they start.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by celticdark View Post
              Siddhe is it possible to have the re-trait reverted on an account if we take a permanent ban from re-traiting ever again?
              I also am skeptical of losing my pre-adjustment max strength.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by celticdark View Post
                Siddhe is it possible to have the re-trait reverted on an account if we take a permanent ban from re-traiting ever again?
                That is an unyielding 'No'.

                Originally posted by Siddhe View Post
                Things of note:
                • Once you make your new trait selections, it cannot be undone. Unless a meteor hits your house (pics or it didn't happen) and you need to flee to your home in the middle of trait selection, we won't be resetting your selections.
                Game Master Tale
                Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Old Dog seems excessive and not accurately described. Should be closer to...
                  - Character does not gain SP with skills learned in the 4th slot and above. Value: -2
                  A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome says to a ram in Cineran, "Oh yes, hit me now, you bad bad bad sheep."
                  A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome is stunned.
                  A ram bumps roughly into a woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome with its head!.


                  “Everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer... because it teaches you how to think.” - Steve Jobs

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                  • #24
                    I'm really glad traits have been revamped, and the new traits are *really* cool.

                    There is a significant issue that I think can be resolved fairly easily, though.

                    The removal of the free nationality traits for Altene and Cinerans, and the cutting the negative trait values is a superlatively-verb crippling of new combat characters vs old characters with the old traits. The previous combat trait sets now would have -4 or -5 current trait values. This makes any new characters have a permanent -4 or -5 trait disadvantage against existing characters who keep their traits, which both discourages creating new characters and discourages characters from re-traiting, and discourages new players.

                    I know the reasoning behind this was a goal to encourage a greater trade-off and decision between traits, and thus a wider range of viable traits, and a wider array of nationalities in-game, but I strongly believe this should be done by simply making the new traits *better* than the old traits, and adding useful free traits for the other nationalities (or simply increasing negative trait values back to their previous numbers and adding a non-combat negative trait that can offset the freebie trait). This would encourage players to re-trait, and ensures a level playing field for both old and new characters by ensuring the old "non achievable" traits are not better than the new ones.

                    Let's take an example:

                    Previous traits:
                    Altene
                    Athletic +3 (free)
                    Nimble Feet +3
                    Steady Hands +3
                    = +6
                    Illiterate -3
                    Introverted -2
                    Phobia Bats -1
                    =0

                    New traits:
                    Athletic +2
                    Nimble Feet +3
                    Steady Hands +4
                    = +9
                    Superstitious Fears -3
                    Intense Nightmares -2
                    Frail Sensibility -2
                    Tone Deaf -1
                    Gullible -1

                    This means for the same traits as before, new characters have to take a 50 point hit in willpower, take a significant vulnerability against magic and another penalty to magic, and be stunned when you wake up. And that's just to get the same positive traits as any existing combat character.

                    This -4 or -5 level of negative trait selection is now the *only* way to get those same traits as before, that previously were attainable with practically zero combat negatives, because negative trait values have been lowered across the board, coupled with the removal of freebie traits.

                    This can be fixed and keep the spirit of the change intact, I think. Just make it so that adding more than 3 positive traits has an extra cost, E.G. Steady Hands goes from +3 to +4. And then make it so that the values for positive and negative traits match up to their old values if you take into consideration the old freebie traits. Thus, the same traits on a new character would be the same point value of the same traits on your old character, but you have the option of adding more positive traits and taking more negatives to get to where it is now (where it's a real stretch to get to 5 positive traits, but can be achieved with significant trade-offs).

                    This would still encourage a greater number of smaller point traits, and a greater variety of negative traits. It keeps the current balance of requiring about 1.5 negative traits per 1 positive trait once you go to 5 positive and 5 negative (Steady Hands is +4 but Shaky Hands is -3; Focus is +10% to Willpower for +2, but Weak Constitution is -20% to Willpower for -2), but ensures that players can decide to keep the old 3 positive and 3 negative like before, and thus new characters have a way of competing with old characters, but anyone that re-traits gets the option of taking more risks with their trait trade-offs if they so choose, as the positive traits require more negative points the more you have.

                    One way to think about this is the mental exercise of imagining equanimity by allowing new characters to choose to use the old trait system or the new trait system; this would indeed ensure new characters are not at a disadvantage (because old characters get to choose which system is better and new characters would get that same choice), but, the whole complexity of that would be moot if the new traits were objectively better than the old; there would be nobody asking to keep their existing traits if the new ones were obviously better than the old. Instead of a two option system, having more than 3 traits cause additional negative points is a lot simpler option that makes sense to me, and keeps all of the goals of the revamp.

                    Otherwise new characters and new players are at a significant, permanent -4 or -5 trait disadvantage over old players and characters, and that adds up to a huge difference in game.

                    Thanks for reading!
                    Last edited by mr_unlucky; 07-11-2020, 01:15 PM.
                    "It's still magic even if you know how's it's done." - Terry Pratchett

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Currently seeing zero round time to Stand with Light Sleeper in any situation.

                      The proc rate of the double hit trait seems to be reported by some at 20% which is too high.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Some things that have been discussed elsewhere and aren't mentioned here:

                        From Herdias:
                        - Cunning Oppurtunist is melee only. Does not apply to bows or thrown items.
                        - As reported by Tale, Malevolent Shadow is "creepy AF" and anyone who cannot seperate fantasy from reality should avoid it.
                        - Old dog - Applies to current skillsheet. Skillsets in 4th+ receive penalized sp. Moving these below the threshold will remove that skillsets penalty and apply it to whatever skills are above 4th. You can get LESS than .025 SP per action in skills in 4th+ skill slots.
                        -Altene Oathbound applies to healing/tailor/locksmith jobs.
                        -Kind heart prevents attacking ANY humanoid that is stunned or KO'd. Critters are excluded from this.
                        -Berserker now allows stance changing and bonus damage is applied only in berserk stance.
                        -Granite Grip does -not- allow you to use 2handed moves in one hand.
                        -Spirit of Nature has a ton of different nature things to pray at with varying outcomes and should interpretted similar to native american spirituality. -Blade Mastery was not changed. It was just explained.
                        On Bum Knee:

                        From Baleron:
                        So bum knee takes away .5 hp per 10 square feet. A small room is .5, medium (40 ft) is 2, large grassland (80 ft) is 4 hp
                        On Spirit of Nature:

                        From Babylon:
                        You say to Tale, "What buffs though? I'm not seeing anything affected and don't get a trigger like when I pray at a shrine that explains "such and such has been enhanced by a supernatural force""
                        Tale says to you, "That isn't information I can provide other than 'beneficial to you alone'."
                        Tale says to you, "You CAN determine what's going on. But it would take time and lots of checking, since it isn't a hard value that is immediately visible. The benefit is to certain RATES, so you'd have to be hyper aware of your current rates of various things in order to test/confirm."
                        Berserker trait: Iron axe, ~188 strength (Level 1-5 = damage level, numbers are roll)
                        normal:
                        Skill: Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4 Level 5
                        Longarm: 6-34 35-74 75-100
                        Sidestrike: 6-18 19-50 51-82 83-100
                        berserk:
                        Skill: Level 1 Level 2 Level 3 Level 4 Level 5
                        Longarm: 6-22 23-54 55-90 92-100
                        Sidestrike: 6-9 10-35 36-63 64-100

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Heavy Arms is broken:


                          [Success: 94, Roll: 1] An osecar snaps at you, but misses with its bite.

                          Short Stats for Potunis Health Points: 115/131 Fatigue: 96% State: conscious Load: 3 lbs. Encumbrance: You are bearing no load to speak of. You are currently engaging: an osecar You are walking.
                          You take a large sack embroidered with an emblem.
                          [Success: 62, Roll: 69] An osecar snaps at you, scoring a hit with its sharp teeth. You suffer a faint wound to your left thigh.
                          Short Stats for Potunis Health Points: 115/131 Fatigue: 96% State: conscious Load: 109 lbs. Encumbrance: You are bearing a moderate load. You are currently engaging: an osecar You are walking.


                          My character probably hits significant load at 84 pounds from the testing we've done so far without the trait. Now, with the trait, it allows him to stay at a moderate load beyond the regular threshold, but it appears he is still getting the penalties to defense and offense as if he was under a significant load.

                          ----

                          I've also tested Malevolent Shadow. It triggered while fighting and I didn't notice any changes to my character's natural defense (agility/speed) and the osecar still had the same success before it triggered. I waited for a while and the success never changed. Malevolent Shadow triggered again more recently while my character was in the baths and I took it to the sewers ASAP to find an osecar, but this time I had ranks in swaying dodge to see if it affected my defense's RB. By the time I found an osecar, which probably took less than five minutes, the osecar once again had the regular attack success. I don't know if another trait I have is messing up with malevolent shadow or if it's straight up not working.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by TEC_Ghuan View Post

                            I've also tested Malevolent Shadow. It triggered while fighting and I didn't notice any changes to my character's natural defense (agility/speed) and the osecar still had the same success before it triggered. I waited for a while and the success never changed. Malevolent Shadow triggered again more recently while my character was in the baths and I took it to the sewers ASAP to find an osecar, but this time I had ranks in swaying dodge to see if it affected my defense's RB. By the time I found an osecar, which probably took less than five minutes, the osecar once again had the regular attack success. I don't know if another trait I have is messing up with malevolent shadow or if it's straight up not working.
                            edited for improved accuracy: for my character, it appears to be a ~2.5-3% penalty of current rank bonus (changes based on stance). it stacks if multiple whispers are received. the penalty effect is reduced every 5 minutes.
                            Last edited by jkidd; 07-11-2020, 08:09 PM. Reason: edit # 3

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                            • #29
                              Well GMs buffed this penalty signficantly last night. They didn't buff the recovery rate..so i'm heading towards 0 rb in all my blocks/dodges. #broken

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Several bugs with Cowardly were fixed. The trait is a massive NO for anyone who will -ever- want to engage in combat. Any attacks against you, whether successful or not, will cause you to flee. Once you flee the room, you will have a 12 seconds RT.

                                Heavy Arms had its bugs fixed as well. Carrying anything over your regular weight limit (without the trait) would incur penalties to offense and defense even if you were still in a moderate load. So long as you remain in a moderate load, you will not have any penalties now.

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