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Trait Revamp

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  • #91
    Originally posted by celticdark View Post

    I still find it as a slap in the face really that the playerbase had to test what was advertised as 'tested and balanced at release' and still be charged for a retrait
    We were told months ago we would be given a chance to test it. Also - have you ever seen a large scale roll out that didn't have a few bugs? Tale cautioned us early on to not jump straight away, which I know I took as a big hint that retrait testing should be completed first on my non-important characters. I was glad I've waited. However, that being said, most (yes, most - not all) of the traits gave a fair warning about what the positive and negative effects of those traits would be.

    I was happy with the response times and fix times (if not entirely the responses themselves), too. Bows and CKF'ing were affected negatively by the rollout, and this was fixed within 24 hours of an @report being placed. I consider that to be extremely positive. All staff were on hand to assist as much as possible. Again, a good sign. I just don't see what the large scale negatives here are. Maybe working with accounting systems the last 10 years and on heavy hitting projects has gotten me used to gremlins in the system, but I consider the amount of issues normal and the response time within adequacy of what paid professionals would deliver.
    Newpatriot frowns to you, "I don't have any open slots. "
    You ooc to Newpatriot, "Ummmm..."
    You ooc to Newpatriot, "Are they all full?"
    Newpatriot asks you, "I've got a man in all 5. Why do you ask?"

    <01:28:30> "That Gay Dude": Dude, I'm not even gay.

    Originally posted by Bactrian
    Your signature has been edited to remove a quote from another player. Let's not use signatures to make other players look silly, please (even if you are just quoting their own words).

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by Tyril View Post
      For everyone who is upset about changes being made after you select your traits, i'd just suggest waiting. I am waiting to retrait if I choose to do so at all for a few months to let it all play out.
      I don't think this is a good mindset/culture. The more that adopt and play/test will help to provide more data back to GMs to improve and balance gameplay.

      Comment


      • #93
        Originally posted by Trisidius View Post
        I was happy with the response times and fix times (if not entirely the responses themselves), too. Bows and CKF'ing were affected negatively by the rollout, and this was fixed within 24 hours of an @report being placed. I consider that to be extremely positive. All staff were on hand to assist as much as possible. Again, a good sign. I just don't see what the large scale negatives here are. Maybe working with accounting systems the last 10 years and on heavy hitting projects has gotten me used to gremlins in the system, but I consider the amount of issues normal and the response time within adequacy of what paid professionals would deliver.
        You're viewing this in the wrong light.

        What's happening here is that people opted in to the new system which was said to be finalized, thoroughly tested and we'd have values/descriptions befitting of the traits. Was it expected that some of them would have bugs? Yes. There will be no denying that. That's not the issue here. Some people made choices based on descriptions that were -not- well-explained and as such they could -not- make a well-informed decision. Now, this one thing that if given a free retrait option would go well, but instead they are being asked to earn 1500 RPs before the end of August which is completely unrealistic even with the double RP rate. We recently had a stats promo and people blew their accumulated RPs. Most are -far- from the 1500 RPs required.

        I don't know what the intention here was, but it isn't being well received because people on basic accounts only earn 2*2 RPs/hour +0.5 (if on who) or 2.5*2 RPs/hour. 4.5 or 5 RPs per hour which ends up being 300-333 hours of playtime. 12.5-13.875 DAYS of playtime.

        From the multiple people I've talked to, who aren't voicing their opinions in the forums, they are pretty disgusted with how this is being handled and are even considering unsubbing because of it. They are updating the descriptions and are now updating us on changes as they are being made which indicates they were clearly in the wrong, but refuse to admit it. Not allowing for a free retrait is another way of them not admitting they handled the situation poorly. Instead, they are likely asking you to upgrade to a premium account so you can earn more RPs to get what should have been free to begin with.

        This is a slap in the face to those who have retraited when the system was released. I seriously hope they reconsider how they roll out massive changes of the sort in the future.

        DISCLAIMER: I have not used the retrait function. I am not affected by it. In fact, I am now going to earn double RPs because of other people using a system that wasn't ready for use. I have "won" something out of this entire ordeal that I did not want and feel bad for people who have to spend RPs and countless hours of playtime to fix something they shouldn't.

        Comment


        • #94
          I think the gms have done a very good job of fixing bugs since this thing rolled out. I can’t say that I see any of this as a slap in the face personally. They are always going to have a massive amount of criticism thrown their way. I personally think they have been amazing. Players shouldn’t have to do the insane amount of testing that they have been, and figuring out things like Malevolent Shadows. Despite descriptions that were too vague for some, I think the system is running smoothly now. The beginning description on malevolent shadows was enough for me to understand it was a terrible trait. That I wanted to stay far away from it. It’s fair to cap it at a -10% now. A retrait for 1500 rps is also fair. The circumstances weren’t ideal but I am happy with the end results. I feel like the gms have really stepped it up lately in general so I want to give kudos for that.

          Comment


          • #95
            no matter how professional the company, a few people can not, and will not find all bugs with the system, even if they thought they found them all, once it's released to the masses who are attempting to break the game at every opportunity, to cheat, or to find bugs to get them fixed, bugs will be found. More eyes on a problem will find more holes to fill.

            Comment


            • #96
              I'm not at my computer so I can't test this out.

              Does the "burst of speed" from Frenzied Reprisal cut down on the standing round time?
              I'm thinking about it as a balance against moves like sweep and strike.

              I'd love to be able to stand and act much quicker after getting wtfpwn by staves cheese.

              Comment


              • #97
                Standing without light sleeper is a function of strength and carry weight, not speed. Carry less, and be stronger, and you'll stand faster.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Hey Archmagi,

                  Did you test that? Thank you for responding regardless.
                  I put "burst of speed" in quotes because they haven't yet defined what that means. That's why I'm asking.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Yes, yes I have.

                    Burst of speed means you get a temporary boost to your speed attribute.
                    might be enough of one to give you a second off your attack round time, maybe.

                    Comment


                    • That’s not what happens.
                      • Frenzied reprisal gives you a 4-5 second window when an enemy crits you where all your attacks are 0+MOS.
                      • If you’re currently in a round time, that round time isn’t shortened.
                      • If you’re in a round time, that eats up a portion of your burst of speed.
                      • From my testing, I’m able to squeeze out 2-3 Extra attacks if I’m in middle of something. 3-5 if I wasn’t busy when I got crit.

                      Comment


                      • Good, better than what I said. Good thing I said maybe.

                        Comment


                        • Sigh.

                          I really don't want to post this thread, but I feel like it's necessary.

                          Originally posted by Pranzor View Post
                          If a person bought out their gimped stat under the old system, they were grandfathered and those stats are unaffected. There are a few cases where this is true, but we are hopeful that most will find great benefit in participating in the new system.
                          This means there are old characters rolling around with +35 strength and 200 dex with Ox's Grace.

                          I support having mystery about mechanics and people having to figure it out, but since it seems the beans need to be spilled:

                          Old character:
                          Altene - Athletic (Free)
                          Adrenaline Rush +20rb to hit (average, at 50% health)
                          Steady Hands +3 +10rb to hit (+20 dex)
                          Finesse 0 +10rb to hit (+20 dex)
                          Introverted -2
                          Illiterate -3

                          Total To Hit Bonus Average: +40rb to hit
                          Total Strength after RPs: 200
                          Total Dex after RPs: 220
                          Combat negatives: nothing

                          Ability to "free" from disables against a fully-strength-stacked character: not easy, but possible (240 vs 200)

                          ---------------------------------------------
                          New character OR newly traited character with dex build:
                          Altene
                          Athletic +2
                          Adrenaline Rush +3
                          Steady Hands +4
                          Worldly Knowledge +2
                          Finesse 0
                          Intense Nightmares -2
                          Superstitious Fears -3
                          Bum Knee -2
                          Fear of the Dark -2
                          Weak Constitution -2

                          Total To Hit Bonus Average: +45 to hit
                          Total Strength after RPs: 180
                          Total Dex after RPs: 220
                          Combat negatives: very hard to escape strength rolls (180 vs 240), fatigue drain on waking up, stunned sometimes, major magical vulnerability, inability to escape pursuit by running, can't move in the dark, -40 to willpower.

                          New character OR newly traited character with "new" OP traits:
                          Opportunist +4 (1/6 proc rate, biggest damage boost for strong, slow weapons = ~20% extra damage, assuming the bonus attacks proc after your disable succeeds, and you're not a weapon dependent on multi-hitter damage: knives, whips, gladius, staves)
                          Wrestler +2 You now lay down when disabled, and can probably dodge difficult attacks after being swept, but rolling dodge is still difficult, and you have no weapon blocks or shield blocks, so this is incredibly situational (only a couple of weapons have sweeps, most other disables do not leave you on the ground and thus rolling dodge does not work)
                          Presence of Mind +2 (same as before, useful for weapons that have a large +to hit move already and just need to boost defense until that attack hits [clubs, staves, whips, gladius])
                          Battlefield Awareness +2 (useful only against more than one attacker)
                          Soft Eyes +2 (useful only against more than one attacker)
                          Light Sleeper 0 - Only useful against weapons that sweep: staves, spears, whips
                          Intense Nightmares -2
                          Superstitious Fears -3
                          Bum Knee -2
                          Fear of the Dark -2
                          Uncontrollable Anxiety -3

                          All of these new positive traits are situational, which means often you gain no benefit from them. For weapons that rely on traits to be halfway decent and/or use multihitters (knives, whips, now 2HA with OP), this is a big nerf.

                          I really want to see the "great benefit" but every +dex build person I've talked to has said "it would be detrimental to retrait", which means we need to 1) allow new characters to remove trait negatives via purchasing RPs so that it's a level playing field with old characters that already did this, and 2) allow characters to choose from the old trait system, as the standard combat trait build is now -4 trait points, meaning all existing +dex builds are far superior. The old build that was a +5, is now a +9, and old characters have +35 stats on top of that? How is this fair at all to new players?
                          "It's still magic even if you know how's it's done." - Terry Pratchett

                          Comment


                          • By my count, this build out is a +43 to hit all of the time when stats are maxed, not a hypothetical "you're half dead with adrenaline rush" situation. The best the old system could realistically produce was ~ +30 all of the time.

                            Code:
                            Positive Traits
                            --------------------
                            Steady Hands
                               - Character receives a +10% bonus to dexterity. Mutually exclusive with Shaky Hands. Value: 4
                            
                            Acrobat's Edge
                               - Character receives a +10 bonus to dodging. Value: 4
                            
                            Worldly Knowledge
                               - Character receives a +10% bonus to perception and a bonus to learning new languages. Mutually exclusive with Provincial Attitude. Value: 2
                            
                            Unpredictability
                               - Character receives a +5 bonus to dodging. Value: 2
                            
                            Disciplined Mind
                               - Character receives a +5 bonus to hit. Value: 2
                            
                            Neutral Traits
                            --------------------
                            Finesse
                               - Character receives a +10% bonus to dexterity, improved critical hits, and a -10% penalty to strength. Mutually exclusive with Shaky Hands.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Lantraste View Post
                              By my count, this build out is a +43 to hit all of the time when stats are maxed, not a hypothetical "you're half dead with adrenaline rush" situation. The best the old system could realistically produce was ~ +30 all of the time.

                              Code:
                              Positive Traits
                              --------------------
                              Steady Hands
                              - Character receives a +10% bonus to dexterity. Mutually exclusive with Shaky Hands. Value: 4
                              
                              Acrobat's Edge
                              - Character receives a +10 bonus to dodging. Value: 4
                              
                              Worldly Knowledge
                              - Character receives a +10% bonus to perception and a bonus to learning new languages. Mutually exclusive with Provincial Attitude. Value: 2
                              
                              Unpredictability
                              - Character receives a +5 bonus to dodging. Value: 2
                              
                              Disciplined Mind
                              - Character receives a +5 bonus to hit. Value: 2
                              
                              Neutral Traits
                              --------------------
                              Finesse
                              - Character receives a +10% bonus to dexterity, improved critical hits, and a -10% penalty to strength. Mutually exclusive with Shaky Hands.
                              at 14 penalty, you're taking some serious negative combat traits to balance; bleeder, mal shadows, uncon anxiety are all hefty options to weigh against the benefits

                              Comment


                              • And why, pray tell, must everyone, and everything, revolve around making people gods of war?

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