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No Refund Policy = Unhappy Players

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  • #31
    Yep, people are basically gonna bitch about anything. I know i'll still be bitching about the time I lost 8k combat sp 6 months after a wipe.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Armataan View Post
      Krisslanza:

      We appreciate your voice. We do. I say we as in 'the general playerbase' not any individual player. But the fact is, and I do not mean any disrespect in this, you -do not- understand combat balance in PVP. You just don't.

      You have an opinion and it is your right to voice that opinion and others can choose to address it and debate against it but the fact of the matter is this:

      In attempting to balance combat those who have a firm grasp of PVP balance should be listened to. Those who don't should not, or should be listened to in a lesser context.

      If you have questions, ask them. If you have suggestions, give them. But do not make the mistake of thinking your opinion about PVP balance is equally valid to mine, or Jkidd's, or Max Powers. Because it isn't. It may be one day. But it isn't now. And that isn't arrogance, it is just the reality of the specialized knowledge required.

      And I realize that I just triple posted. whatever.
      I don't think I've ever once implied I know, nor do I particularly care about PvP balance.

      It's my personal opinion that PvP is always a thing that is pretty much impossible to balance. No matter what you do, it is an endless battle to constantly change things and constantly tweak things. Unless you make everything identical, which makes it then kind of pointless.

      And me, troll people? I don't troll. Ever. I might insult people but, yeah, I just hate competitive PvP. Do it for fun. When people start re-rolling characters, using cookie cutter builds/looks, analyzing every little number for every advantage... that kind of stuff just baffles me.

      Also this is totally offtopic. And yeah, okay maybe 6 months of lost time is a lot but really... you'll just spend those 6 months training SP anyway. I guess it won't go into your "main" style but... again, we wouldn't even HAVE this thing going on if the styles weren't so broken (as a seamless, fluid thing) in the first place.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Armataan View Post
        EIGHT RULES OF GOOD CUSTOMER SERVICE



        1) Communicate.
        Talk to your customers. Be openly communicative. Keep in regular contact. Outreach independently of requests for you to do so.

        2) Don't make promises unless you will keep them.
        Not plan to keep them. Will keep them. Reliability is one of the keys to any good relationship, and good customer service is no exception. If you say, “Your new bedroom furniture will be delivered on Tuesday”, make sure it is delivered on Tuesday. Otherwise, don't say it. The same rule applies to client appointments, deadlines, etc.. Think before you give any promise - because nothing annoys customers more than a broken one.


        3) Listen to your customers.
        Is there anything more exasperating than telling someone what you want or what your problem is and then discovering that that person hasn't been paying attention and needs to have it explained again? From a customer's point of view, I doubt it. Can the sales pitches and the product babble. Let your customer talk and show him that you are listening by making the appropriate responses, such as suggesting how to solve the problem.


        4) Deal with complaints.
        No one likes hearing complaints, and many of us have developed a reflex shrug, saying, "You can't please all the people all the time". Maybe not, but if you give the complaint your attention, you may be able to please this one person this one time - and position your business to reap the benefits of good customer service.


        5) Be helpful - even if there's no immediate profit in it.
        The other day I popped into a local watch shop because I had lost the small piece that clips the pieces of my watch band together. When I explained the problem, the proprietor said that he thought he might have one lying around. He found it, attached it to my watch band – and charged me nothing! Where do you think I'll go when I need a new watch band or even a new watch? And how many people do you think I've told this story to?


        6) Train your staff to always be helpful, courteous, and knowledgeable.
        Do it yourself or hire someone to train them. Talk to them about good customer service and what it is (and isn't) regularly. Explains the basic of ensuring positive staff-customer interactions before you do anything else. Most importantly, give every member of your staff enough information and power to make those small customer-pleasing decisions, so he never has to say, "I don't know, but so-and-so will be back at..."

        7) Take the extra step.
        For instance, if someone walks into your store and asks you to help them find something, don't just say, "It's in Aisle 3". Lead the customer to the item. Better yet, wait and see if he has questions about it, or further needs. Whatever the extra step may be, if you want to provide good customer service, take it. They may not say so to you, but people notice when people make an extra effort and will tell other people.

        8) Throw in something extra.
        Whether it's a coupon for a future discount, additional information on how to use the product, or a genuine smile, people love to get more than they thought they were getting. And don’t think that a gesture has to be large to be effective. The local art framer that we use attaches a package of picture hangers to every picture he frames. A small thing, but so appreciated.
        If you apply these eight simple rules consistently, your business will become known for its good customer service. And the best part? The irony of good customer service is that over time it will bring in more new customers than promotions and price slashing ever did!
        I always use the BLAST method.

        Believe - Believe that the customer believes their complaint is valid.
        Listen - Listen to the customer's complaint.
        Apologize - Apologize to the customer, even if you don't think you've done anything wrong.
        Satisfy - Satisfy the customer. Make them want to come back.
        Thank - Thank the customer for complaining, as nothing will ever get better if people don't complain.

        Happy customers keep coming back. I just wonder how many more players we'd have if TEC's GMs made customer satisfaction a higher priority.
        <Pandarus thinks aloud: Oh Ereal's blazing jewels, I'm on my way.>

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by krisslanza View Post
          I don't think I've ever once implied I know, nor do I particularly care about PvP balance.
          If you don't particularly care about the matter, but repeatedly post a contrary view, knowing very well it will insight a certain reaction in other forum members... I'm pretty sure that's the definition of trolling.
          A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome says to a ram in Cineran, "Oh yes, hit me now, you bad bad bad sheep."
          A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome is stunned.
          A ram bumps roughly into a woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome with its head!.


          “Everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer... because it teaches you how to think.” - Steve Jobs

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by zeldaiscool View Post
            So to put it a different way that is very similar. If a character knows say whips, knives, and tridents. If trident takes a nerf and the person decides its no longer practice to use because of the nerf so its a waste carrying a 4 pound trident.

            Do you feel that the gms should do a refund?
            How about... If your character knows say whips, knives, and tridents. You're a grandmaster in all 3. Invested ~15K SP into each. Then suddenly one day a new mechanic gets put into place where you need a wall shield to wield a whip, a long shield to wield knives and to carry a net to use your trident. Regardless to the fact that you agree that the mechanic should be created, how might that impact you?

            Best case scenario, you normally walk around with a wall shield. Now your first thought may be, "Hey, that's not so bad". Then you may realize that a long shield is an extra 9 lbs of weight and the net is an extra 6 lbs. So unless you have a free 15 lbs of leeway, you'd have to walk around with a significant load.


            So if you decide to keep everything on you...
            - Bigger fatigue drain while carrying a significant load.
            - If you get jumped along the road, you're at a big disadvantage, can't guard as effectively, etc. (Any other penalties created by a significant load).
            - Dropping your stuff nearby before you fight has the possibility of someone grabbing your 11t wall shield and whatever else is in the sack.
            - You can't carry as much loot from hunting grounds.


            If you decide to go with the 'I'll change skillsets each day' method...
            - You need to constantly go back to your room and/or the bank whenever you want to change your fighting style. Not always practical with trips to Monlon, Blackvine, Rock Valley, etc.
            - If you're using your 'weaker' skillset and get jumped, you're at a huge disadvantage.
            - If your net breaks (because it takes damage from use) or any of your shields, you can no longer use that skillset. Some skillsets can break your net in 3 good hits.
            - Carrying an extra net is an extra 6 lbs each.


            Originally posted by zeldaiscool View Post
            Because the reality of it thought hard to aggree with is, those sword skillsets you learned can still be used at any time you want, you just have to either A carry another shield on you, or B decide today I will use avros, or nelsor so I will take this shield.

            Just playing devils advocate mostly here, but you have to understand that the two examples really are exactly the same.
            I'm not sure where you fight or hunt, so it may not hit home. But perhaps to better understand how much of an inconvenience the second option is you can try an exercise. If you'd like, try changing your weapon type each day. I have no idea which weapon you use, but let's say axes. Use a retalq axe one day. Go home, leave the retalq and change to a boison axe the other day. The next day go home again and change it to bronze axe. The next day go home again and back to a retalq axe. Doesn't matter if you sleep out in Monlon or the Treehouse, keep going home to switch. Ideally you'd want to gain SP and training with each weapon because you've used them all for 5+ years. See how long it takes to become annoying. Would it be completely out of the question to say screw it and want to focus on 1 skillset instead of 3? Would you think an SP refund for such a change would make sense?
            A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome says to a ram in Cineran, "Oh yes, hit me now, you bad bad bad sheep."
            A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome is stunned.
            A ram bumps roughly into a woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome with its head!.


            “Everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer... because it teaches you how to think.” - Steve Jobs

            Comment


            • #36
              Kudos to Dragonus. Great explanation.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Dragonus View Post
                How about... If your character knows say whips, knives, and tridents. You're a grandmaster in all 3. Invested ~15K SP into each. Then suddenly one day a new mechanic gets put into place where you need a wall shield to wield a whip, a long shield to wield knives and to carry a net to use your trident. Regardless to the fact that you agree that the mechanic should be created, how might that impact you?

                Best case scenario, you normally walk around with a wall shield. Now your first thought may be, "Hey, that's not so bad". Then you may realize that a long shield is an extra 9 lbs of weight and the net is an extra 6 lbs. So unless you have a free 15 lbs of leeway, you'd have to walk around with a significant load.


                So if you decide to keep everything on you...
                - Bigger fatigue drain while carrying a significant load.
                - If you get jumped along the road, you're at a big disadvantage, can't guard as effectively, etc. (Any other penalties created by a significant load).
                - Dropping your stuff nearby before you fight has the possibility of someone grabbing your 11t wall shield and whatever else is in the sack.
                - You can't carry as much loot from hunting grounds.


                If you decide to go with the 'I'll change skillsets each day' method...
                - You need to constantly go back to your room and/or the bank whenever you want to change your fighting style. Not always practical with trips to Monlon, Blackvine, Rock Valley, etc.
                - If you're using your 'weaker' skillset and get jumped, you're at a huge disadvantage.
                - If your net breaks (because it takes damage from use) or any of your shields, you can no longer use that skillset. Some skillsets can break your net in 3 good hits.
                - Carrying an extra net is an extra 6 lbs each.




                I'm not sure where you fight or hunt, so it may not hit home. But perhaps to better understand how much of an inconvenience the second option is you can try an exercise. If you'd like, try changing your weapon type each day. I have no idea which weapon you use, but let's say axes. Use a retalq axe one day. Go home, leave the retalq and change to a boison axe the other day. The next day go home again and change it to bronze axe. The next day go home again and back to a retalq axe. Doesn't matter if you sleep out in Monlon or the Treehouse, keep going home to switch. Ideally you'd want to gain SP and training with each weapon because you've used them all for 5+ years. See how long it takes to become annoying. Would it be completely out of the question to say screw it and want to focus on 1 skillset instead of 3? Would you think an SP refund for such a change would make sense?
                Honestly I would still look at it as its my choice to unlearn as im still able to use all the skillsets its just become annoying. The problem I guess with it is sword users never should have been able to use so many skillsets. At least it has been corrected now to avoid future problems.

                I think im opting out of future conversation about the SP loss because my opinion isnt changing and neither is the opinion of those who are upset about it. People will be upset about it as long as they want to be upset about it.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Dragonus View Post
                  If you don't particularly care about the matter, but repeatedly post a contrary view, knowing very well it will insight a certain reaction in other forum members... I'm pretty sure that's the definition of trolling.
                  I figured it's only trolling if you make up stuff for the sole purpose of posting it to annoy people, instead of posting your honest damn opinion on a lot of things that rile up some people like a nest of angry hornets.

                  It's a bloody game not a lifestyle. You're supposed to be having fun with it, not freaking out.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    My character is one of the least affected, at his current skill state. However, I would have greatly appreciated an SP refund for these drastic changes. The style of combat I had planned for the character has been barred completely.

                    Avros by itself is a very passive, tanky skillset. If I knew this would be the state of things, I would have gone with Nelsor or even an entirely different weapon. This isn't a case of min-maxing; I'd just be choosing a weapon that fits what style I want better.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I'm just moving on. I unlearned avros and bumped my Nelsor. I'm over the change and sticking with nelsor. I'm glad in a way that I no longer feel the need to train so many skills.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Vorico View Post
                        Avros by itself is a very passive, tanky skillset.
                        With respect (really), you're mistaken. Avros was the best sword style for banditry pre-change. It still is post change.

                        That being said though, I absolutely agree with you that if your concept no longer works because of a retcon, you getting to functionally hit the reset button MAKES SENSE, since it just means that your character learning nelsor instead of avros 'because avros never fit his mindset' is just PART of that retcon.

                        These changes are good for game balance. Greater game balance is good for play experience. But pissing off 1/3 of your playerbase is NOT good for play experience. It is bad for it. And those players will be pissed at the refusal to compensate them, instead of pleased at the improved balance. It's basically fumbling in the home stretch.

                        Originally posted by VinianQuartz
                        HAIL CULEXUS

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          In a group, yes. For one on one, without stomp, not at all. I don't plan on going the group vs alone traveler pvp route.

                          Either way, it's my opinion, unless they want to convince me why I'm wrong, of what character concept got thrashed into the ground that matters.

                          Yea, they should be giving refunds.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            While we're talking Avros..PvE I never liked Avros because a move like strike and smash gets negated/reduced effectiveness in the tougher hunting grounds by NPC's that don't play by the same rules as PC's.

                            i.e. create an opening and the NPC doesn't suffer the RT penalty and attacks before the Avros user can exploit.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by jkidd View Post
                              PvE I never liked Avros because a move like strike and smash gets negated/reduced effectiveness in the tougher hunting grounds by NPC's that don't play by the same rules as PC's.

                              i.e. create an opening and the NPC doesn't suffer the RT penalty and attacks before the Avros user can exploit.
                              Yes. Avros has issues in PVE. That is really very minor though. Incredibly such. Smash is amazing in pvp.

                              I meant 1v1, as far as avros's capabilities for banditry. banditry is based on highly aggressive attacks against an unprepared opponent. Avros excels there compared to nelsor, or pard. It leaves them in the dust IMO. Are there better banditry weapons? sure. Is there a more aggressively minded sword in such circumstances? No. Avros benefits from stance swiping more than either of the other two. It is an 'active' style that relies on timing and foresight to excel. Pardelian is quite reactive, and nelsor is... just... 1, 2, ? , profit.

                              Originally posted by VinianQuartz
                              HAIL CULEXUS

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Armataan View Post
                                Yes. Avros has issues in PVE. That is really very minor though. Incredibly such. Smash is amazing in pvp.

                                I meant 1v1, as far as avros's capabilities for banditry. banditry is based on highly aggressive attacks against an unprepared opponent. Avros excels there compared to nelsor, or pard. It leaves them in the dust IMO. Are there better banditry weapons? sure. Is there a more aggressively minded sword in such circumstances? No. Avros benefits from stance swiping more than either of the other two. It is an 'active' style that relies on timing and foresight to excel. Pardelian is quite reactive, and nelsor is... just... 1, 2, ? , profit.
                                I agree with pretty much everything you're saying but if the opponents unprepared he probably won't be wielding a weapon and then you're out of luck and using rstr spam. Which isn't the worst thing in the world.

                                Prior to changes Avros bandits could stomp then sslash, needle, etc. I don't think they're that OP for banditry currently. PVP strike and smash is a big, you don't want to stance dance on me mofo. Unless they're a brawler/panker..then stance dance away buddy.

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