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  • Max Powers
    replied
    Originally posted by Armataan View Post
    I was -10- in shield sap. not 110. I would be surprised if Daydro didn't have something along the lines of a 20 on you.

    That's unique to 2hax, and their lack of blocks for saps, though.

    Move was still brokenly overpowered against everybody else, just less obviously so.

    He is right that both nelsor and pardelian were more easy peasy in pvp though. Lower damage? Sure. But also a lot less focus required and much less chance of getting hurt,.

    Daydro had 74, I think you had like 91.

    Leave a comment:


  • Armataan
    replied
    Originally posted by Max Powers View Post
    Was more responding to Armataan about that first part.

    But yeah, someone 110 in shield sap having a 74 to ssap Hurrok in normal v. normal was uh...odd. Especially when their hthrust was a 47 right before that.
    I was -10- in shield sap. not 110. I would be surprised if Daydro didn't have something along the lines of a 20 on you.

    That's unique to 2hax, and their lack of blocks for saps, though.

    Move was still brokenly overpowered against everybody else, just less obviously so.

    He is right that both nelsor and pardelian were more easy peasy in pvp though. Lower damage? Sure. But also a lot less focus required and much less chance of getting hurt,.

    Leave a comment:


  • Max Powers
    replied
    Originally posted by jkidd View Post
    Shield sap was absolutely ridiculous. Haven't tested since the nerf, but it really needs a rt nerf imo still. Silly to get good damage, bonus to hit, and fast rt...with a stun. Just silly.
    Was more responding to Armataan about that first part.

    But yeah, someone 110 in shield sap having a 74 to ssap Hurrok in normal v. normal was uh...odd. Especially when their hthrust was a 47 right before that.

    Leave a comment:


  • jkidd
    replied
    Originally posted by Max Powers View Post
    Um...Pard Shield Sap was single-handedly the most powerful maneuver for banditing in all 4 skill sets. Probably in the top 5 or 10 hardcore pvp moves in the game. Hardcore being all non-gladiator PvP.

    And saying Avros isn't good PVE is insane. Sslash high, needle high, rstrike neck, repeat. You don't get much higher DPS than that.

    All y'all need Ereal.
    Didn't say it wasn't good. Just annoying that strike and smash wasn't all it could be in PvE. Especially noticeable in a place like BHC where you can't just get away with sslash high, needle high pwnage.

    Shield sap was absolutely ridiculous. Haven't tested since the nerf, but it really needs a rt nerf imo still. Silly to get good damage, bonus to hit, and fast rt...with a stun. Just silly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Max Powers
    replied
    Um...Pard Shield Sap was single-handedly the most powerful maneuver for banditing in all 4 skill sets. Probably in the top 5 or 10 hardcore pvp moves in the game. Hardcore being all non-gladiator PvP.

    And saying Avros isn't good PVE is insane. Sslash high, needle high, rstrike neck, repeat. You don't get much higher DPS than that.

    All y'all need Ereal.

    Leave a comment:


  • jkidd
    replied
    Originally posted by Armataan View Post
    Yes. Avros has issues in PVE. That is really very minor though. Incredibly such. Smash is amazing in pvp.

    I meant 1v1, as far as avros's capabilities for banditry. banditry is based on highly aggressive attacks against an unprepared opponent. Avros excels there compared to nelsor, or pard. It leaves them in the dust IMO. Are there better banditry weapons? sure. Is there a more aggressively minded sword in such circumstances? No. Avros benefits from stance swiping more than either of the other two. It is an 'active' style that relies on timing and foresight to excel. Pardelian is quite reactive, and nelsor is... just... 1, 2, ? , profit.
    I agree with pretty much everything you're saying but if the opponents unprepared he probably won't be wielding a weapon and then you're out of luck and using rstr spam. Which isn't the worst thing in the world.

    Prior to changes Avros bandits could stomp then sslash, needle, etc. I don't think they're that OP for banditry currently. PVP strike and smash is a big, you don't want to stance dance on me mofo. Unless they're a brawler/panker..then stance dance away buddy.

    Leave a comment:


  • Armataan
    replied
    Originally posted by jkidd View Post
    PvE I never liked Avros because a move like strike and smash gets negated/reduced effectiveness in the tougher hunting grounds by NPC's that don't play by the same rules as PC's.

    i.e. create an opening and the NPC doesn't suffer the RT penalty and attacks before the Avros user can exploit.
    Yes. Avros has issues in PVE. That is really very minor though. Incredibly such. Smash is amazing in pvp.

    I meant 1v1, as far as avros's capabilities for banditry. banditry is based on highly aggressive attacks against an unprepared opponent. Avros excels there compared to nelsor, or pard. It leaves them in the dust IMO. Are there better banditry weapons? sure. Is there a more aggressively minded sword in such circumstances? No. Avros benefits from stance swiping more than either of the other two. It is an 'active' style that relies on timing and foresight to excel. Pardelian is quite reactive, and nelsor is... just... 1, 2, ? , profit.

    Leave a comment:


  • jkidd
    replied
    While we're talking Avros..PvE I never liked Avros because a move like strike and smash gets negated/reduced effectiveness in the tougher hunting grounds by NPC's that don't play by the same rules as PC's.

    i.e. create an opening and the NPC doesn't suffer the RT penalty and attacks before the Avros user can exploit.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vorico
    replied
    In a group, yes. For one on one, without stomp, not at all. I don't plan on going the group vs alone traveler pvp route.

    Either way, it's my opinion, unless they want to convince me why I'm wrong, of what character concept got thrashed into the ground that matters.

    Yea, they should be giving refunds.

    Leave a comment:


  • Armataan
    replied
    Originally posted by Vorico View Post
    Avros by itself is a very passive, tanky skillset.
    With respect (really), you're mistaken. Avros was the best sword style for banditry pre-change. It still is post change.

    That being said though, I absolutely agree with you that if your concept no longer works because of a retcon, you getting to functionally hit the reset button MAKES SENSE, since it just means that your character learning nelsor instead of avros 'because avros never fit his mindset' is just PART of that retcon.

    These changes are good for game balance. Greater game balance is good for play experience. But pissing off 1/3 of your playerbase is NOT good for play experience. It is bad for it. And those players will be pissed at the refusal to compensate them, instead of pleased at the improved balance. It's basically fumbling in the home stretch.

    Leave a comment:


  • rebel862
    replied
    I'm just moving on. I unlearned avros and bumped my Nelsor. I'm over the change and sticking with nelsor. I'm glad in a way that I no longer feel the need to train so many skills.

    Leave a comment:


  • Vorico
    replied
    My character is one of the least affected, at his current skill state. However, I would have greatly appreciated an SP refund for these drastic changes. The style of combat I had planned for the character has been barred completely.

    Avros by itself is a very passive, tanky skillset. If I knew this would be the state of things, I would have gone with Nelsor or even an entirely different weapon. This isn't a case of min-maxing; I'd just be choosing a weapon that fits what style I want better.

    Leave a comment:


  • krisslanza
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragonus View Post
    If you don't particularly care about the matter, but repeatedly post a contrary view, knowing very well it will insight a certain reaction in other forum members... I'm pretty sure that's the definition of trolling.
    I figured it's only trolling if you make up stuff for the sole purpose of posting it to annoy people, instead of posting your honest damn opinion on a lot of things that rile up some people like a nest of angry hornets.

    It's a bloody game not a lifestyle. You're supposed to be having fun with it, not freaking out.

    Leave a comment:


  • zeldaiscool
    replied
    Originally posted by Dragonus View Post
    How about... If your character knows say whips, knives, and tridents. You're a grandmaster in all 3. Invested ~15K SP into each. Then suddenly one day a new mechanic gets put into place where you need a wall shield to wield a whip, a long shield to wield knives and to carry a net to use your trident. Regardless to the fact that you agree that the mechanic should be created, how might that impact you?

    Best case scenario, you normally walk around with a wall shield. Now your first thought may be, "Hey, that's not so bad". Then you may realize that a long shield is an extra 9 lbs of weight and the net is an extra 6 lbs. So unless you have a free 15 lbs of leeway, you'd have to walk around with a significant load.


    So if you decide to keep everything on you...
    - Bigger fatigue drain while carrying a significant load.
    - If you get jumped along the road, you're at a big disadvantage, can't guard as effectively, etc. (Any other penalties created by a significant load).
    - Dropping your stuff nearby before you fight has the possibility of someone grabbing your 11t wall shield and whatever else is in the sack.
    - You can't carry as much loot from hunting grounds.


    If you decide to go with the 'I'll change skillsets each day' method...
    - You need to constantly go back to your room and/or the bank whenever you want to change your fighting style. Not always practical with trips to Monlon, Blackvine, Rock Valley, etc.
    - If you're using your 'weaker' skillset and get jumped, you're at a huge disadvantage.
    - If your net breaks (because it takes damage from use) or any of your shields, you can no longer use that skillset. Some skillsets can break your net in 3 good hits.
    - Carrying an extra net is an extra 6 lbs each.




    I'm not sure where you fight or hunt, so it may not hit home. But perhaps to better understand how much of an inconvenience the second option is you can try an exercise. If you'd like, try changing your weapon type each day. I have no idea which weapon you use, but let's say axes. Use a retalq axe one day. Go home, leave the retalq and change to a boison axe the other day. The next day go home again and change it to bronze axe. The next day go home again and back to a retalq axe. Doesn't matter if you sleep out in Monlon or the Treehouse, keep going home to switch. Ideally you'd want to gain SP and training with each weapon because you've used them all for 5+ years. See how long it takes to become annoying. Would it be completely out of the question to say screw it and want to focus on 1 skillset instead of 3? Would you think an SP refund for such a change would make sense?
    Honestly I would still look at it as its my choice to unlearn as im still able to use all the skillsets its just become annoying. The problem I guess with it is sword users never should have been able to use so many skillsets. At least it has been corrected now to avoid future problems.

    I think im opting out of future conversation about the SP loss because my opinion isnt changing and neither is the opinion of those who are upset about it. People will be upset about it as long as they want to be upset about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • jkidd
    replied
    Kudos to Dragonus. Great explanation.

    Leave a comment:

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