Announcement

Collapse

SkotOS Downtown: Wednesday, 11am-1pm PT

I am scheduling a downtime for all SkotOS machines from 11am-1pm PT on Wednesday.
  • Marrach will be going down to upgrade its Operating System
  • Lazarus (and Lovecraft) will be going down to upgrade its Operating System
  • Ironclaw will (hopefully) be going down to tune its performance
See more
See less

Thoughts on GM played characters

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Tweninger View Post
    I definitely didn't see this post, so thanks for that.

    Would be cool to know who the GM's characters are. I personally would be fairly hesitant on RP'n or doing any sort of conflict with GM ran characters that aren't GMNPC's, for a lot of reasons.
    Not sure what your fear or worry is... so if you know what characters the GM plays, you're going to avoid them like plague? Wouldn't it be more fun to not know whoever characters any of the GM play to make your game play experience much more enjoyable?

    Also, knowing who the GM characters (even any characters that is NON-GM player) will never be made available as it is against TOS. Here, let me make it easy for you:
    1. collect or store personal data about another member without the express permission of such member.
    2. reveal information, to anyone without access to such information, without the express permission of a member, that (i) personally identifies such member; (ii) reveals the administrative role of such member within a game; or (iii) reveals the names of game characters identified with such member.
    And if you would like to read ALL the TOS : http://www.skotos.net/about/

    Based on your question, all I am seeing is that you're just making assumptions or hearing rumors that might or might not be true. I also second what ArchMagi said.. you're moaning about something that is based on rumors? Assumptions that you can't prove? and think it to be true. Have fun in there and play without the need to know who plays who.


    Comment


    • #17
      I mean... it's not really my post being responded to, but several aspects I think this response got wrong.

      Originally posted by Faelynn View Post
      Not sure what your fear or worry is... so if you know what characters the GM plays, you're going to avoid them like plague? Wouldn't it be more fun to not know whoever characters any of the GM play to make your game play experience much more enjoyable?
      I don't think anyone said "avoid them like the plague". A little over-exaggeration. I don't think anyone would leave the room when a known GM walks in. Just maybe not rob them, cut their tongue, kill their beloved dog, sleep with their wife, etc. Maybe that's just me.


      Originally posted by Faelynn View Post
      Also, knowing who the GM characters (even any characters that is NON-GM player) will never be made available as it is against TOS. Here, let me make it easy for you:
      1. collect or store personal data about another member without the express permission of such member.
      2. reveal information, to anyone without access to such information, without the express permission of a member, that (i) personally identifies such member; (ii) reveals the administrative role of such member within a game; or (iii) reveals the names of game characters identified with such member.
      And if you would like to read ALL the TOS : http://www.skotos.net/about/
      The section you quoted is in the "6. Restrictions. You agree not to do any of the following prohibited actions:" It does not say we should never know who GMs play. No one is saying we should reveal other people's characters or store information without someone's permission. The main parts I would focus on is the "without express permission". The suggestion is that they openly choose to do so, or it is a requirement of being a GM.

      FYI the link you provided is wrong. Actual link for reference. https://www.skotos.net/help/TOS.html


      Originally posted by Faelynn View Post
      Based on your question, all I am seeing is that you're just making assumptions or hearing rumors that might or might not be true. I also second what ArchMagi said.. you're moaning about something that is based on rumors? Assumptions that you can't prove? and think it to be true. Have fun in there and play without the need to know who plays who.
      Not really "rumours or assumptions". Sceadu himself said...

      Originally posted by Sceadu View Post
      I have fired GMs in the past for crossing this line.
      So are you honestly making the assumption that it happened in the past, but NOW everything's all good? Or that by saying "They are held to a higher standard than players when it comes to sharing OOC knowledge between their accounts." means that what? Those past GMs weren't held to a higher standard? Maybe I'm just someone who cares about the details of certain statements. If someone says something was broken and now it's fixed, I care to know HOW it was fixed. Maybe I should be more trusting. *Shrugs*
      A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome says to a ram in Cineran, "Oh yes, hit me now, you bad bad bad sheep."
      A woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome is stunned.
      A ram bumps roughly into a woman in a shiny boison helmet with an absurdly tall dome with its head!.


      “Everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer... because it teaches you how to think.” - Steve Jobs

      Comment


      • #18
        I'm done gonna move on.

        GM's shouldn't have characters in a position of power or put them in any sort of pvp conflict, unless it's a GMNPC. That's the last 2 cents I have.

        It's also my opinion.

        Comment


        • #19
          It sure would be nice to have accurate knowledge of some of the deeper mechanics that many of us have debated over for ages. This would go a long way to a player with sense enough to use it and build around it. I will openly admit that I'm very jealous that some have this level of understanding about the game and I would wager that there are many others who share my sentiment on this. I also realize that any GM that has this level of understanding is also freely donating his or her time to make our game better and is likely good enough to have influenced one or many systems I use on a regular basis. It's earned. I'm sure dealing with all of us is pure hell at times.

          Comment


          • #20
            Not really "rumours or assumptions". Sceadu himself said...
            ^^ Obviously, you're quoting me towards something that is not related to what I was talking about. I was referring to Tweninger's question:

            Do GM combat characters that fight in the games have to pay premium for the RP investment to get 7 max inhuman characters?
            If not, then they shouldn't be playing them in pvp situations.


            How does he EVEN know a GM combat character is in pvp situations if it's not for rumors and assumption? If IT"S NOT EXPLICITLY mentioned anywhere that so and so is a GM character? It could have been any "regular" player, and with the half-off stats, i'm sure some probably already maxed their whole combat stats. Regardless, THAT question did come about, he must have THOUGHT and had a probable cause to think so (GM with OP/position of power characters), hence his question. It could have been a player who isn't a staff member, then he wouldn't have asked that question in the first place, but he did. Reason why I said 'rumors' and 'assumption'.

            No one is saying we should reveal other people's characters or store information without someone's permission.
            What Tweninger's said :
            Would be cool to know who the GM's characters are
            Cool to know? In other words "would be nice to reveal a GM character" which is noone else business.


            I don't think anyone said "avoid them like the plague". A little over-exaggeration. I don't think anyone would leave the room when a known GM walks in. Just maybe not rob them, cut their tongue, kill their beloved dog, sleep with their wife, etc. Maybe that's just me.
            Again, this is what Tweninger's said that had me typed that statement :

            I personally would be fairly hesitant on RP'n or doing any sort of conflict with GM ran characters that aren't GMNPC's, for a lot of reasons.

            Fairly hesistant on RP... 'nuff said.

            FYI the link you provided is wrong. Actual link for reference. https://www.skotos.net/help/TOS.html
            Thanks for the correction!

            IF everyone could understand what Sceadu said

            :>>>Staff player accounts are completely separate than their GM accounts <<<

            ...then questions and topic like this shouldn't even be brought up or thought about. Just like WE can't interact with our own alts or drop items from one main to another alt. Both cases are extremely OOC and definitely get you caught. So, same scenario, obviously, any OOC knowledge is never an IC knowledge unless it happens in-character and in the game.

            Pretty sure Sceadu knows how to do his job as a head honcho and police his own staff members if they are crossing the lines or not.

            Comment


            • #21
              Fairly hesitant on RP.. Yes. I chose who to avoid and who to play with. That's how I enjoy playing this game. If I know you're a blatant cheater, I'm probably not gonna play around with you much. If I know you love to talk OOC gossip, I'm probably not going to RP with you. If I know you have behind the scene knowledge that no one else knows, I'm probably not gonna RP with you much. Hate on me for my choice on how I want to play this game, I don't care.

              I said it in discord, and I'll say it again here. Sceadu admitted that the GM's are held to a higher standard and has fired them in the past.. That right there is enough for me to have my ASSUMPTIONS about certain characters. He literally proved my point. GM's have, in the past, abused their powers. Not saying it's being done now. Not at all. I'm saying that it can happen, because that's how history works. Until I get a list of who GM ran characters are, or they're removed entirely, I'll keep having my assumptions and play my game how I wish.

              Why GM's can't be happy with spawning a GMNPC character with the same ranks and stats and weapons as their current, and RP it that way, I dunno. Hiding behind a regular character, with the knowledge that the person behind the keyboard has, is frustrating, especially if that character is in a position of power or in pvp. Whether or not this is happening, I don't know. My assumption is just that though. MY Assumption.

              To make another point. GM's know things that we regular players don't know. Are they taking that knowledge IG to their main character on the other account? That depends. Are they hiding their character at a place where a known criminal has been hiding out to catch him? That'd be cheating. That's obvious. That's where Sceadu would step in? Has that happened? Well, GM's have been fired for unspecified reasons. Assumptions can be made.

              I guess I'm more vocal about this then others, but I know I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Hell, I may not even be the minority here.

              I'm going to keep my assumptions going and continue to play the game how I like it. I'm not tossing any names around. I'm not hurting anyone else's play.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Lantraste View Post
                It sure would be nice to have accurate knowledge of some of the deeper mechanics that many of us have debated over for ages. This would go a long way to a player with sense enough to use it and build around it. I will openly admit that I'm very jealous that some have this level of understanding about the game and I would wager that there are many others who share my sentiment on this. I also realize that any GM that has this level of understanding is also freely donating his or her time to make our game better and is likely good enough to have influenced one or many systems I use on a regular basis. It's earned. I'm sure dealing with all of us is pure hell at times.
                We can create a new open forum for everyone to learn, there are many players that have just as much if not more knowledge and understanding of combat/non combat mechanics.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by HotMoltenLava View Post
                  While I did not hold such a staunch ideal while I was on staff, I did continue playing not so much by choice, I do agree that it would be better if they limited any positions that gave them an unfair advantage. Stepping back, you see things more clearly, and though I think I did a pretty good job at the time of maintaining a line, I can not honestly say I never crossed it. Your views are skewed while on high, it is impossible for it not to ever have an influence/effect on your actions. Coming back, I have seen rules that were put into place, are no longer adhered to, which I think is bad form. Though I can not see everything clearly, that is disappointing. TEC_Ghuan, check your damned email, ya goober.
                  Thank you HML, this is effectively what i'm getting at. It actually means a lot to me that you can admit this.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Anyone remember the typo at one of the more recent GM auctions where a GM would up the bids on their main character? I get trying to rid the gameworld of talents, but come on, if there's ever a time to keep your main away from something, it's at your own auction.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Tweninger View Post
                      Anyone remember the typo at one of the more recent GM auctions where a GM would up the bids on their main character? I get trying to rid the gameworld of talents, but come on, if there's ever a time to keep your main away from something, it's at your own auction.
                      If there is truth to this it should be investigated
                      "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Until I get a list of who GM ran characters are, or they're removed entirely, I'll keep having my assumptions and play my game how I wish.
                        You will never see this list unless the GM that owns the account wants to share. GM player accounts are protected by our NDA just as yours are. As far as PC vs GMNPC, there is no way for you to know which is which if played in the right way. I was pretty clear in my first response to this thread and I see no need to drag it any further.
                        Game Master Sceadu

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          As Sceadu stated, this thread has been answered clearly, and there is no need to expand on anything (and it would be a violation of out NDAs to do so on certain things), but knowing that "That should be enough" isn't satisfying for some people, I will touch briefly on my experience and opinions on the matter, just to give you a broader idea of things from my own point of view:

                          Combat Skill Mechanics
                          The GMs most familiar with Combat and have spent a lot of time using it as a player, as well as studying the back-end are the most qualified to make balance changes...because they're most familiar with it. That seems pretty common-sense to me. Who else would you want making Combat Code decisions? Me?! I rarely play my player account. And the very few times I play a combat character, I'm abysmal at it, and I've had my butt handed to me at the Ludus many a time. And once, I even died on the newbie island. This does not inspire confidence in that area.

                          GM Division Of Labor
                          However, that is also why I do a lot of the Noncom skill overhauls and updates, and craft new critters to fight, etc. That's where my experience lies as a long-time player of not only this game, and others like it, as well as from other genres. You'll recall the Major overhaul of woodsie skills a few years ago, and the addition of an inordinate amount of functionality to skills that needed love, and even some new ones in the last couple years.

                          We usually divide up the work to whoever is most knowledgeable and familiar with the systems involved and give them the lead on changes in that area. We either discuss or debate anything truly significant so we can get several different perspectives on a topic before any work is even decided on, let alone completed.

                          Some staff are even specifically hired just for Customer Service, or Event Staff, etc. Some staff members transition to other roles as their skills/experience lends itself to better suit a new role, etc. We naturally learn and grow, and our duties end up reflecting that thanks to good staff communication and leadership.

                          GM-Played Player Characters
                          I've seen a lot of different staff members over the last decade, and I've seen how they all play and use their characters. Some have even been brought on specifically for their knowledge and creativity in certain areas the staff at the time had lacked. Some, as Sceadu stated, were outright fired because they crossed a line or one variety or another. But all the current staff play mostly to have fun. Some like tea-sipping, some like combat, some like collecting virtual loot/coin just to feel a sense of accomplishment, etc.

                          But ALL of us get RPs every hour (when we actually log into our player accounts - we do not gain RPs while logged into our GM accounts, so we get no 'credit' while putting in 'work hours') just like every other premium member, and we spend them just like everyone else does. We don't get bonus RP rates, we can't/don't give each other or ourselves RP awards, and we put in request tickets (and pay the same RP rates) just like everyone else when we want something altered, or a custom item.

                          GM Integrity
                          If you knew how many times I've seen variations of the conversation "Didn't that person do such & such?" - "Yeah, but I wouldn't know that IG, so I've got to put up with it and let my char believe him...even if I know he's lying through his teeth.", you'd be impressed. The current staff is some of the most professional and unbiased group of staff I've had the pleasure to work with in the ten or so years I've been around as a GM.

                          Final Note
                          Buuuuut, perceived reality is a strong force, so if you choose not to take me at my word, I respect your right to have your own opinion. For those of you who either value, respect, or appreciate my thoughts and opinions, I hope this has been enlightening or informative in response to your concerns or questions.

                          This will be the only statement I give on the topic. Thank you for your time.
                          Game Master Tale
                          Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

                          Comment

                          Working...
                          X