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  • #61
    I haven’t been keeping up with the dumpster fire that is these forums, but I’ll reiterate that the reason my main uses Centus as a broker is because of the quality of role play.

    Interacting with Centus feels immersive, fully fleshed out, and unique. He role plays providing lots of thoughtful services to his clients that go beyond just profit.

    Top prices aren’t necessary to attract a brokering client - but some kind of mechanical advantage, such as profit, is the catalyst for what can become a more interesting relationship. To progress further requires trust.

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    • #62
      I personally don't like brokers in the game. I think it's crap to hand someone a sack and then bingo there is more money than if I had done it myself. However, there are characters that have been designed to fill this role in the City and this is a blatant nerf of their ability. I don't care what you call it if a broker's appeal was that they could command 20% more than you and they charge 10% you are still ahead of the game. This change closes that gap and effectively eliminates their usefulness, that's a nerf. I've used a few different brokers and the reason that I look for certain ones is because of the additional benefits that they offer. Like they know the market, tell me when to hold or sell, take me to the best vendor, rp with me as we go and generally make the experience better.

      Everything about loot in this game is horrible. Hauling it, sorting it, selling it. It is a true joy suck and characters like Centus, Favianna and Zearia made that aspect of the game that much better. I feel bad for players that have made brokers to be a 'merchant' in this game to have it ripped away from them in a very heavy-handed fashion.

      I hope the gms look at another way to handle this. Either making a skill set, which allows you to use your skill and stats to haggle out of it or make it a rep based system which if you do a lot of business with Ylsa then she will give you better rates.

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      • #63
        Thanks Ariden even though you don’t like the concept for agreeing that it’s a nerf. And yeah loot transport is miserable!

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        • #64
          I'm a little confused by the logic of the forums these days. For one, I never said it wasn't a nerf. It's a nerf, but if anything. All these people saying brokers should be more than prices literally prove the fact the reduce in profit doesn't matter if you go through the efforts to rp an interesting character, learn to judge markets, among other things.

          You dont need 60% profit to do any of these things, and you could easily offer other services to make up for it. If you're truly committed to playing a broker/merchant, none of this matters. Skye and Ladona both use to sell loot for people so they could avoid the whole process for like 30% fees might I add. If anything it encourages less casual brokers. Oh, hello friend can you log in your broker alt so I can get 60% more profit, ty friend.

          I am pretty sure a lot of people would offer you the 23% of profit you make them if you did all the effort to sell including sorting and pulling. You don't need special skills, or skillsets to 'rp' nor to provide a service to someone else to that justifies your worth.

          Forums really are a dumpster fire aren't they.
          Last edited by Ciaran; 05-20-2020, 08:42 PM.

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          • #65
            Not really this change makes it not worth the time to line up a broker for a bit more than I could sell myself. Yes having people to rp with makes it better but it doesn’t make selling loot a thing to look forward to. And this change makes it easier to cut out the rp and solo play. How is that a good thing? And better yet who cares if brokers make a lot of money? As long as they don’t funnel it back to their mains it’s a non issue. If they do the gms can handle that. This change simply didn’t need to be done when there are other more important things that we are still waiting on. Traits anyone? Or have we given up on that happening?

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            • #66
              I get there are ways to rp and interact and try to make the best of it. But the suggestion to give brokers ability to negotiate much lower priced bought goods from shopkeepers would also benefit everyone. The prices on damn near everything are super inflated. And it would be something that could be unique to us. And yeah they promised us traits within a set time frame that has already passed no less. Which absolutely sucks when they drop a huge change like this that makes 2 of my traits essentially not worth a damn thing. If anything this should have been dropped on us after traits to lessen the impact a little. Now we are potentially waiting months to be able to re-trait.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Ariden View Post
                Not really this change makes it not worth the time to line up a broker for a bit more than I could sell myself. Yes having people to rp with makes it better but it doesn’t make selling loot a thing to look forward to. And this change makes it easier to cut out the rp and solo play. How is that a good thing? And better yet who cares if brokers make a lot of money? As long as they don’t funnel it back to their mains it’s a non issue. If they do the gms can handle that. This change simply didn’t need to be done when there are other more important things that we are still waiting on. Traits anyone? Or have we given up on that happening?
                ? Did you even read my post?

                What part of doing something other than having to offer sack to npc to make their worth viable flew over your head? You telling me you wouldnt pay someone to take loot from an inn room for you and sell it so you can go back to what you were doing?

                Even if you wouldnt, a lot of the game would. Including all the people who use to cough up a lot of profit to Ladona and Skye. If I want to be the bad guy here, why exactly do I have to find a broker or lose 60% profit when all they need to do is type 'offer sack' to npc after I sorted the loot and pulled it to a npc anyway? I'm sorry that someone has to do more than offer sack to npc name 20 times now for 10% of my profits? I would literally give away any profit a broker made me if they dealt with Ciaran's loot in a heartbeat because it isnt worth the time investment. Or man, someone offers this service and then sets someone up to be mugged in said room they deliver it to and create rp too. Or, maybe just maybe, this opens up the possibility of fraud crimes because the broker or mule reported false numbers. Maybe say, the BC hires a broker to do this to make a profit offering them protection should they get caught. There's all sort of rp being thrown out a window because, hey, lets just make 60% more profit because 'offer sack to npc'.

                Once again, you dont need fancy skills to serve a purpose or to be useful or to rp. Last I checked, this was a rp game. I would absolutely love to see more characters willing to act as mules. Why, because it's RP? Hey, I'm going to BHC, how about your take my loot and pull it to town for me as I continue hunting and making even more profit for 25% of the sell. Oh wait, the pack mule got mugged on the road? Yay RP for the TM and Legio that isnt chasing the most recent GM puppet or spawned npcs. I love Analog, and everything she/he does when trying to create rp by spawning things. In fact, Analog taunting me when spawning bears on me on random bandit npcs last time they spawned things was hilariously fun. But, a npc invasion will always be an npc invasion and ignored by half the game. If you had someone running around mugging people again, maybe someone would show up who wasn't nearby already or the TM.

                If all you have to do is offer sack to npc to make me 60% more money, somehow I think that's dumb even if I wish they were working on more important things too, but you know, being the bearer of bad news, this change probably didnt take much effort anyway on their part except bumping a few numbers. Nor, am I opposed to a broker skillset by saying all this, but you know. 'Offer sack to npc', 'make 60% more profit'. Wasn't exactly logical. All this btw, while the npc watches you deliver the loot for the other person to sell it which makes absolutely no rp sense. Yes, some brokers tried to rp this with poweremoting, sweet talking the npc, whatever else. But it still makes, no sense. Specifically not for that much of a different when I have to imagine the NPC has a brain and can see the person dragging in the wagon and go, hrm.

                Would make a lot more sense if it was reputation based or, sells volume based, or something other than flat out, 'offer sack to npc'.

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                • #68
                  Sorting the loot is not really a hard task. Dragging a wagon back that takes like over an hr from some spots.. not really feasible for us. The mugging? Are you saying the broker wouldn’t be blamed and given crap if they were ambushed on the road and lost like 30t or more of stuff? Fraud crimes. Sounds fun if you want to play a criminal however the protection if you are caught? While that’s great nobody will ever wanna use you as a broker again because nobody likes a scammer and you would probably go to jail to top it off for heavy larceny + whatever they could stack with that. Not everyone wants to take their char down the criminal path. Charisma and appearance are no longer heavy factors I could have a great appearance and some rank smelly dude rolls in with one tooth in his entire mouth and stutters and gets anywhere near my prices doesn’t make logical sense either. The point is instead of having great appearance, very good charisma or whatever and 2 traits to gain a small advantage of like 23% I could have great dex, very good agility. I could be highly effective at combat or hunting myself and be like everybody else and only have to sacrifice 23%. They’ve effectively made those 2 traits and multiple social stats not worth having at all. And that is the biggest issue I have with it. It’s the fact that we’re stuck with these dumb stat rolls/traits that aren’t good for anything. It’s that 50 stat points in any other single category makes such a massive difference as long as it’s not a social stat. You’re telling us to look at it from a rp angle. That’s cool. After this simmers down I’m sure we will. What other choice do we have we’re stuck with these crap traits and stats that mean nothing in the game world that’s so heavily focused on traits and stats. But yes I will find ways to incorporate it into my chars rp. That’s ic. Ooc I’m not satisfied. And this forum is ooc.

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                  • #69
                    Ok how about this. This change was dumb and it makes the game more vanilla. It would be interesting to see trait choices people are picking now because with this change it’s even less. If the goal is to screw it all up so we are forced to opt in on the new traits I think they are doing a good job.

                    I did read your post Ciarian and here’s the thing you should have something to offer a pc for your split. Checking the local prices and hauling loot ( which most brokers won’t do) is really not worth paying someone for unless you are moving a lot of stuff. Even then with this nerf if you are going to haul it back anyways you might as well make a couple of extra stops.

                    These traits created a mechanical advantage for rolling a broker and to expand their offerings up make in worthwhile. Removing those traits invalidates the character. If you want to still rp with a loot seller go for it, some characters are worth the effort. For me I’d choose to spend my rp time differently and will going forward.

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                    • #70
                      I'm tending to agree with Tele's points. What's the point in playing a broker roll unless the roll actually provides its own significant advantage? If he went fighter, top fighters would likely make far more than 23% more income than he does based on their ability to down NPC's faster. Instead, the broker role is created by the delta in selling ability. Fighters that didn't take broker traits now have the ability to make even more money when teaming up with this role. The amount paid to the broker is up to an agreed upon decision between the fighter and broker, meaning it's effectively supply and demand.

                      Broker: "You'll need to pay me 20%" Fighter: "Um no", Broker: "I don't see any other brokers around and I net you 40% more income, so you still make 20% more. Up to you"

                      Also: Broker "You'll need to pay me 20%". Broker 2: "I'll take just 5%" Broker 3:"I'll take 3% if you promise to always use me if I'm around". Fighter "Hrm, I'll just go with Broker 2 for now"

                      I think that by reducing this broker advantage, we're reducing the ability to have this role at all. Change story 1's to "I net you 11% more" and it's a lot harder to make it worth finding a broker for a fighter.

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                      • #71
                        This change only negatively affects a 'role' that takes zero time/effort/skill/stratagy to obtain beyond re-rolling an alternate character slot a few times. It it were 'about the role-play' as claimed, it wouldn't matter what percentage you charged - you could charge 1% and still live better and be wealthier than any other 'newbie' character trying to raise money with their skills/professions, 'scavenging', or doing any of the unskilled labor mechanically available in the game. This is a clear indication that it is not about lost role-play opportunities, but about inflated profit margins.

                        Over 80% of the characters in the game mechanically benefit from this change. We left room for brokers to continue to do business - even if the profits were truly 'halved', they still have the ability to make truly ludicrous amounts of money with minimal effort. If that isn't good enough...I'm sorry you feel that way, but we can't please everyone.
                        Game Master Tale
                        Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

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                        • #72
                          Tale Ok. Any eta on trait revamp? Cause that would at least help my problem some.

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Tale View Post
                            This change only negatively affects a 'role' that takes zero time/effort/skill/stratagy to obtain beyond re-rolling an alternate character slot a few times. It it were 'about the role-play' as claimed, it wouldn't matter what percentage you charged - you could charge 1% and still live better and be wealthier than any other 'newbie' character trying to raise money with their skills/professions, 'scavenging', or doing any of the unskilled labor mechanically available in the game. This is a clear indication that it is not about lost role-play opportunities, but about inflated profit margins.

                            Over 80% of the characters in the game mechanically benefit from this change. We left room for brokers to continue to do business - even if the profits were truly 'halved', they still have the ability to make truly ludicrous amounts of money with minimal effort. If that isn't good enough...I'm sorry you feel that way, but we can't please everyone.
                            That's a pretty strong reply. Can we shut the thread now?
                            Newpatriot frowns to you, "I don't have any open slots. "
                            You ooc to Newpatriot, "Ummmm..."
                            You ooc to Newpatriot, "Are they all full?"
                            Newpatriot asks you, "I've got a man in all 5. Why do you ask?"

                            <01:28:30> "That Gay Dude": Dude, I'm not even gay.

                            Originally posted by Bactrian
                            Your signature has been edited to remove a quote from another player. Let's not use signatures to make other players look silly, please (even if you are just quoting their own words).

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                            • #74
                              If you keep it up Tale people might think you are as grumpy as me
                              "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Tele View Post
                                Tale Ok. Any eta on trait revamp? Cause that would at least help my problem some.
                                Soon.

                                Originally posted by Trisidius View Post

                                That's a pretty strong reply. Can we shut the thread now?
                                I don't lock a thread unless it's encouraging the violation of policy. If people want to scream their angst into the void, I take it as a win that they're not screaming directly at me.

                                Originally posted by Kered View Post
                                If you keep it up Tale people might think you are as grumpy as me
                                If I came off as grumpy, I apologize. My reply was made calmly, logically, and was meant as a statement of my (to the best of my ability) unbiased opinion based on the points brought up by previous posters. I've had a broker. I've used brokers. I have no problem with their existence. I went out of my way to make sure they still had a function so as not to penalize players who made broker characters. However, keeping their profit margins at unreasonable levels at the detriment of 80% of the characters in the game by keeping them from being able to fairly profit from actual effort without forcing them to participate in that scheme is just not a valid argument in my opinion. I'm sure a handful of people will vilify me for that opinion, but the entire staff agreed on this change on its merits, and so it went through, and we believe it to be a good one.
                                Game Master Tale
                                Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

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