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Quarterstaves

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  • Quarterstaves

    Hmmm, How do I say this.
    I was looking at the TEC comabt site and I noticed on the Quaterstaves pages some of the moves that they have. Those moves look very powerful. Staves are a defensive weapon right? Am I wrong there? If they are such a defensive then how come they have more power then other weapons? They have moves that can dish out three ugly bruises at once. If a defensive can do that, then I dont want to know what a ofensive can do! I mean come on. That doesn't exactly sound fair. I know they are custom moves, but still, I dont think thats a excuse for the power those moves have.


    Rune

  • #2
    Perhaps you should try actually using a staff before you start complaining its too powerful....
    *is too tired to give a more elaborate answer*

    Besides, in reality...a staff may indeed be more defensive then most weapons, but in skilled hands it can still dish out some very impressive damage. (You'll note the skilled part...)
    Tayron N'Mier

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    • #3
      Have you ever been hit with a staff? Or watched someone in real life use one who knows what they're doing?

      They are fast, powerful, and have a long reach. A single blow can easily kill a person, and it's easy to strike an opponent twice with a staff in the time it takes someone with a shortsword to slash someone twice. Simply because you can strike with either end, and on the rebound after hitting someone it's easy for the other end to come around and hit you again.

      Now, getting hit in the stomach with a staff isn't as bad as, say, a sword or a knife. But head wounds can be worse when non-fatal. Getting a cut isn't as bad as a concussion.

      A staff is a good weapon all-around. The main disadvantage is that when your opponent is too close you have no leverage to attack, you have to constantly keep a distance between him and you. Spears are the same way. So they're far from perfect.

      As far as the game goes, though, it does need to have some balance. I don't know how staff damage compares IC with say, a sword or a club. Honestly, a single strike with a club would be more devastating than with a staff, due to weight mostly. And any piercing/slashing attack can get to vitals with less force. So a single blow from a staff SHOULD be less than other weapons. But they still should have decent power, and they should be fast.
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      • #4
        finishing Tayron's reply...

        Let's start off with regular moves: The greatest damage one can do with a regular stave move is a bruise, that's if you're highly experienced and have a good(emphasis) stave. My swordsman is practiced and can get punctures with his tin gladius quite frequently.

        Extreme Damage: Let's compare bruising damage to cutting and piercing. An ugly bruise is slightly less powerful that a deep cut or a deep puncture. I say slightly less because the cuts and punctures could easily result in bleeding. A step up from deep is severe, and I've seen quite a few severe cuts and severe punctures being dealt if you have a decent sword.

        The custom move part: Triple bash is the only move which is capable of dealing three hits. The reference made on the TEC Combat website was refering to a critical hit, which would be the maximum potential of damage for that move. Oh and by the way, when you spend 2500 rps on your custom move we'll see wether you'll like being limited to only deep punctures or deep cuts, regardless if it is three hits or not.

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        • #5
          Staves being powerful?! What?! have you even used a staff yet IG?!

          First off, a few have said in this thread, and many, MANY posts back on the old forums, staves don't do much damage.

          The most damage I have EVER done with a stave was an ugly bruise, and this was under very, and I mean VERY favorable conditions An unconsious alligator in the vale, with someone else approached to him while I am standing back using 'longarm strike' (A damaging staves move that can only be used from long range). With this person approached to the unconsious alligator, I rolled a 70+ over a 15-25 (can't remember clearly which) success, and I got an ugly bruise.

          Looking at the conditions:
          1. Unconscious alligator (One of the easiest things to damage in the game, I think.)
          2. Someone approached to the unconscious animal
          3. Longarm strike
          4. Good quality staff
          5. A good roll over my success

          Just had to say, after playing a stavesman before, just HAD to put my 2 cents in =)
          ~/Please don't let me fall asleep, Because the Boogie Man will creep, Through my window, In my room, And stab me with a broken broom.... \~

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          • #6
            I've had Pivoting Longarm do a major bruise to a conscious small alligator once... I was alone, and in broad daylight, but that was a roll of about 95, with a success of 5, and using the strongest single blow attack available for staves...
            Tayron N'Mier

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            • #7
              Quaterstaves

              First off, triple bash is not the only staves move that can dish out 3 hits at once. Spin Strike can also dish out 3 hits at once.

              And I'm not talking about reality, I'm about the game. According to all the stuff I read on staves, it says its a defensive weapon. And like I said before, if a defensive can do that, then I dont want to know what a ofensive can do!
              If a stave can dish out ugly bruises, then I when I get or learn a custom sword move, I expect to be dishing out gaping wounds
              and devastating cuts, with every hit. And If I roll just over my success then I expect a deep or severe puncture.
              Also, the best wound I ever inflicted a enemy target(not counting the yellow, brown and gray rats in the dumps and pits) is a deep puncture. I was using a iron gladius.

              Still, for a defensive weapon to be able to dish out that much damage is unfair.


              Rune

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              • #8
                Well, can't verify the spinstrike since that move isn't being taught openly...
                And on another note... Ereal forbid a skilled staff user being able to not only defend themselves, but be an actual threat in combat!

                Make a character, train in staves and use it for a while. Then, complain that you're doing too much damage when the best you can reliably dish out with your strongest move is a bruise. You don't seem to understand the sheer amount of training it takes to actually do an ugly bruise to a REAL opponent....cause I've only managed it on those little alligators up in the Vale, and if I'm lucky, the rats, osecars, and whatnot.
                Tayron N'Mier

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                • #9
                  In my opinion, staves damage is where it should be. A regular tin gladius is powerful enough to make a deep puncture with a basic maneuver, so why shouldn't we? Not to mention that the people doing those triple-strike maneuvers with ugly bruises on each strike are either very very skilled or very very lucky (likely a bit of both). How many stavesmen do you see going around causing ugly bruises? A very small amount. The only methods of causing them are by using custom maneuvers or training longarm strike up to a fairly high rank (which takes a lot of time considering that it is a difficult move). On the other hand, my stavesman picked up the gladius for a while, at rank 5 with 1 in jab, he could do deep punctures on an unconscious rat with a bloody tin gladius, however, it took him 100 ranks in basics and 20 in longarm strike to be able to cause UGLY BRUISES on a bloody rat with an iron capped stave! I would say that our weapon is quite inferior when you look at it from that point of view. Why don't you try using a stave for two years then you can come and make a logical, educated, well-researched complaint.

                  **steps down from the soap box**
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                  • #10
                    Staves can be very good in good hanbds at hight ranks
                    -=Doctors do not save lives but only delay death-= Darakna Dewon

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                    • #11
                      Quaterstaves

                      What the heck are you talking about Kalonis? Tin gladius do not cause deep punctures. The best they can do is punctures and that is using stab and rolling over a 40 over your success.
                      And deep punctures with jab?????? Who told you that? The best I ever saw a jab do was a puncture, and that was with a iron gladius.
                      Kalonis, next time you make a post, put a little though into it. A beginner swords man with a tin gladius cant cause deep punctures!!

                      As I put a little THOUGHT into it. A grandmaster Stavesmen should be allowed to cause some damage, But I see a alot of stavesmen out there causing this kind of damage. And I doubt they are granmasters....

                      Its just unfair that you see a defensive weapom causing this kind of damage all teh time.


                      Rune

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                      • #12
                        Staves

                        The only reason that people who have never used staves think they are so powerful is that there is such a huge number of stave-users around. With such a large number, and with staves being a weapon that dates back far into the game's history, there are many extermely good stavespeople out there. It is these people that you see doing multiple bruises with a single attack, not people with only average skill. Imagine investing as many SPs as it takes for a stavesperson to achieve ugly bruises with any regularity into any other weapon in the game (except knives). You would be able to do deep cuts/punctures very easily, and pull off severe punctures/cuts with quite a bit of regularity. If you invested the same amount of SPs into clubs, you would be doing large and major bruises, with the occasional fracture thrown in for kicks. So, please actually try staves before saying they are strong. You want strong? Check out the gladiator weapons (granted, there are many disadvantages). My character at 50 basics and 30 vital jab never does faint wounds, and does gaping wounds almost three times as often as regular punctures. (I only need to roll above I think a 71 to do a gaping wound). With that amount of skill in staves, you would be doing bruises, with maybe an ugly bruise on occasion if you were very lucky.

                        Oh, and a further note: I am fairly sure that ugly bruises actually hurt worse than deep punctures or cuts, although not much worse. And I do know that small bruises hurt worse than faint wounds or shallow cuts, because I can kill rats doing only small bruises (with my wooden pitchfork) while faint wounds or shallow cuts just get them worn.

                        Hope that all made sense . . .
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                        • #13
                          Re: Quaterstaves

                          Originally posted by Rune789
                          What the heck are you talking about Kalonis? Tin gladius do not cause deep punctures. The best they can do is punctures and that is using stab and rolling over a 40 over your success.
                          And deep punctures with jab?????? Who told you that? The best I ever saw a jab do was a puncture, and that was with a iron gladius.
                          Kalonis, next time you make a post, put a little though into it. A beginner swords man with a tin gladius cant cause deep punctures!!
                          I have seen the weakest weapon do huge amounts of damage in the hands of the right person. Deep punctures do happen, even with Tin Gladii. Not as often as with better swords, but it happens. So please, before bashing someone for not thinking about what they post... know what you are talking about.

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                          • #14
                            With an excellent-quality iron gladius, and a roll of 70 above my success, I could do deep punctures with jab. With a roll of either 45 or 50 above my stab success, I could do deep punctures.

                            On things like rats, these would happen more often than not.

                            It's quite possible to.

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                            • #15
                              Whats that funny little stat called, Hhmm... STRENGTH, maybe?

                              Talking about strength, this is probably one of the KEY factors as to why someone can do massive amounts of damage.

                              Try making a clubsman, trident, gladii, and a spear using character. With those characters, try maxing out the strength as much as possible, or try to get it as low as possible. THEN see the difference between the two characters (hopefully your comparison will be of the same 2 weapons, but at different strengths).

                              Now I'm thinking the reason why people can do deep punctures and stuff with tin gladii and the likes is not also because the weapon can cause major damage, but the damage is also multiplied because of their strength. You think a below average+
                              strength can cause an ugly bruise or fracture to someone? No. Most likely not. With above average+ strength, it is QUITE easily to do better than average damage with any of these weapons that I mentioned above. I mean, I made a Tuchean Trident wielder and had 7 (You hear that, 7!!!) in basics, 6 in jab and 4 in the butt smash move, or whatever its called. (Like the spear move.) And with those 2 moves at such a low rank, I was causing deep punctures at about 70+ success on conscious rats and 50+ when they were knocked out. These are sewer rats, too. And with my smash, I was causing ugly bruises with a 55+ success on conscious rats, and 30+ when they were unconscious. And my characters strength was exceptional. (Hhmm... Maybe strength played a role in there.)

                              Now, as for saying all of that, I never got any of that with a stavesman. Even with him being average strength, I knew PLENTY of people that were way stronger than I was, some as skilled, and some even more skilled than I was, only doing the about the same amount of damage I was.

                              In the case of the staff, its the skill that determines just about how hard you hit, and your strength may play a role in it too, but from what I've seen, not as much as skill is needed to cause serious damage for the other weapons. (Except knives)

                              Now if you'd like, and you STILL think staves are doing way too much damage for being a defensive weapon *cough* Yeah right *cough* then I'd gladly conduct a little experiment with a few people, if they are willing, and see just HOW damaging staves can be.
                              ~/Please don't let me fall asleep, Because the Boogie Man will creep, Through my window, In my room, And stab me with a broken broom.... \~

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