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  • Agility.

    I think the agility bonuses should be lessened a bit. A person with exceptional agility is harder to hit than a person who spent six months working on his or her blocks. I dislike making long posts so I refuse too. As always, I'd like to hear your opinions on this.

    Andrew.

  • #2
    Agility

    I couldn't disagree more. I think someone with exceptional strength has just as much advantage in damage done and someone with exceptional speed is a lot faster and therefore gets more attacks than someone with lower speed. I believe agility should stay where it is, as an important physical stat that needs to be supplimented with ACM's and/or shields (as it stands now)

    Altene axe chick,
    Viviana

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    • #3
      If you are slow, train at the obstacle course. If you're maxed out try to find some way to compensate, like with ACMs or a shield.

      Some people are just more "talented" than others, because they have a stat that's better.
      Lovecraft Country: Albert Zero
      Castle Marrach: Cody the Blade


      StoryCoder Azrael tells StoryHermit Death, "I *did* get told "you're amazing" by a girl when I was saucing my hotdog..."

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      • #4
        What you brought up is something I've thought about for a while Andrew. I do think it's fairly unrealistic that a person with exceptional agility and no training in blocking or dodging what-so-ever is harder to hit than say someone who's outstanding in basic ACMs and familiar in most the moves. Here's a couple of idea's I've come up with for that though. The higher your agility, the easier it is for you to train in ACMs. In other words instead of 6 sp to train in basics at your second skill, it would only cost say 5 sp. Or whenever you train, you're rank bonus increases more the higher your agility is. Sure it should be harder for you to hit someone with a high agility. IF they know how to dodge. But just because you have a high agility, you're not going to be any harder to hit than anyone else if you just stand there and trade blow for blow without making any effort to avoid your opponent's attacks.
        ~Lyrad: The old knivesman.~

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        • #5
          My main's charecter's agility is maxed out at good, and his blocks are pretty damm good. At least practiced in every move and outstanding in shields and ACM. Folks that have exceptional agility have too much of an advantage over others. I mean, if a charecter who is exceptional in agility is beserk, Andrew can barely even hit him in normal. As far as strength, I really haven't seen a noticable amount of extra damage which you can do. You can wear a lot of extra armor, though. Dante, an inhumanly fast knifesman, I think, only had an advantage of 4 attacks to Andrew's three. Andrew's speed is normal and he uses a gladius.

          Andrew.

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          • #6
            *sigh* Leave it alone. Its the one good stat I have.
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            Or. . .
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            • #7
              agility

              How fair is it that someone with exceptional strength can do more damage with one hit than someone who is fairly skilled in the same weapon? It is fair because it is an attribute. One character is stronger than the other. And from what I have seen, every one of the physical stats matter. I had several characters with above average endurance and they had hp's around 130. A little bit goes a long way with these stats. My character with good willpower gains more hp in the time it takes her to ooze once than she loses when she bleeds. Agility is an innate ablity to respond and move. Do you need to know how to dodge to be hard to hit? No. I sincerly doubt anyone who trains a warrior character relies on a good or better agility to not get hit in combat, most train. Yes they have the advantage when it comes to eluding injury, but that is how the real world works. Certian people are born with gifts that you will never be able to duplicate, no matter how hard you train at it. Characters with high agility have an inborn gift...as well as someone with high speed, strength, endurance and willpower. I think the bonuses should stay as they are and hope that people realise that just as in real life, there is sometimes going to be someone naturally better than you at something.

              Viviana
              Altene axe chick

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              • #8
                Agility is definitely too much of an advantage. I once had a character with inhuman agility, and there were some grandmasters who had difficulty hitting him, even when he was in berserk. However, strength also does have a significant effect. Changing my strength from very good to exceptional (with the traits) made a ten point difference in the roll I needed to have a gaping wound.
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                • #9
                  More stuff

                  If you want to see the difference in the ammount of damage done due to strength create a clubber, axeman or whipper.

                  Viviana
                  Altene axe chick

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                  • #10
                    Sorry about numerous posts but...

                    And speed does make a difference...I had an ihumanly fast knifer and she got 3 stabs in to her glad friend's one....perhaps Dante wasn't being truthful about his stats.

                    Viv
                    Altene axe chick

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                    • #11
                      When a newcomer in berserk can stand up to a grandmaster whose normal, I believe there should be a few changes. The posts about someone whose exceptional strength being able to do more damage with a ten point lower hit is irrelevant. I do sincerely doubt the ratio of 3:1 hits for exceptional speed, but that is also irrelevent. I made this thread to talk simply about how unbalanced agility is. Ask any good warrior out there, and he'll tell you that agility is the most important trait because it leaves one virtually unhittable Every single charecter I've made after Andrew, I made sure to get exceptional agility. It makes one almost untouchable. Reason it out. It isn't that difficult to see that it's unbalanced a bit. I don't think it should be slashed to bits. An exceptionally agile person should still get a considerable bonus over an average agile person, but not as large as it is. If anyone doubts how good agility is, try to hit a Cineran. Most of their blocks are terrible, but they are almost untouchable because of it.

                      Andrew.

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                      • #12
                        *cough*

                        Actually Andrew you started this thread to hear a discussion of whether the agility bonus should be toned down. Now comparing this attribute to the bonuses given to attributes *is* relevant to a discussion. Now if you just wanted for people to agree with you you shouldn't have said discuss. *roll*

                        I don't appreciate you insinuating that I was lying about the speed thing...I wasn't.

                        As far as the other stats,a person with exceptional endurance might have over 200 hp, if you compare it to above average of around 125 and average of 100. That is because exceptional is just that exceptional.

                        Yes I know how important agility is, Viv has phenomenal agility. She sparred grandmasters who had a hard time hitting her when she was familar in basics. The thing was, she had a hardtime hitting them especially if they were using shields. The point of this story, you might be able to slide your way out of getting hit, but agility isn't end all.

                        When you cross the line from a very good stat to execptional, you are entering an area very different from the last. As you climb the ladder, there are fewer and fewer on the rungs. Exceptional, phenomenal, and inhuman stats are meant to be amazing, rare and natural. That is the stuff that professional athletes of today are made of. That ablity suplements training and is enhanced by training but exists with or without training.

                        Viviana
                        Altene axe chick

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                        • #13
                          Wait a minute... You want to talk about how "unbalanced" agility is, and then you say it's irrelevant to talk about other stats? What is it supposed to be balanced against then? When speaking of game balance, you need to compare and constrast the subject against other subjects.

                          *Atama, player of Thugga, who is depressed about playing a clubber who's strength is maxed at Very Good and is wondering if there's any point in playing him any more...*
                          Lovecraft Country: Albert Zero
                          Castle Marrach: Cody the Blade


                          StoryCoder Azrael tells StoryHermit Death, "I *did* get told "you're amazing" by a girl when I was saucing my hotdog..."

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                          • #14
                            What I believe Andrew is trying to say is this. The strength attribute can't be compaired to agility when talking about it in this context. Strength is used everytime you make a swing with your weapon. Agility isn't used when just standing there attacking. In other words, when you're berserk, it shouldn't make a damn how agile you are if you're not using it. Berserk means that you don't dodge anything. So why should it be harder to hit a person that has high agility than a person with low agility if they are both berserking? It shouldn't. Agility only comes into play when you stop berserking and start defending. That's where you should start getting the benifits of a high agility.
                            ~Lyrad: The old knivesman.~

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                            • #15
                              When someone is berserk, I don't see why their agility should affect them in the least. After all, berserk is an all-out attack. I do recant what I said about the relevence of the skills after reading Atama's and Viviana's posts.

                              Andrew's speed is average, and he attacks around every five to six seconds. I've never seen someone attack every two seconds. I was just saying that.

                              I never said agility was all-important, and I didn't intend for it to sound that. It does help much too much, which was basically my whole point.

                              In our gameworld, the exceptional, phenominal, and inhuman traits are not that rare. They are fairly commonplace. I've made five or six charecters, and every charecter I've made was at least exceptional in one area.

                              Atama, strength isn't that important. You'll just be able to carry a few less pounds of items, and also do a little less damage. Much more important is your agility, so with an extremely small amount of work you can become untouchable.

                              Andrew.

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