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  • #91
    For tailoring, it's every 4 easy subskill ranks = 1 basic tailoring rank. Unless they changed it.

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    • #92
      Newpatriot, I don't think you know how tailoring works. First off, it's not that basics are as high as your highest subskill, basics are figured out via a formula.

      I believe that is 1+1/4*Easy Ranks+1/2*Average Ranks. This is not figured out by just your highest subskill.


      Originally posted by Marnevel
      Dunstvangeet's right
      Newpatriot (Aux) Snakes on your plane to Storm_queen, "Jesus Christ: Vampire Hunter has a lot t do with lesbians. See, vampires find out that if they wear lesbian skin they can walk around in sunlight. So Jesus teams up with a Mexican wrestler named El Santos to fight lesbian vampires. And it's a musical."

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      • #93
        You not glad with your agility? raise it using your rps to get a potential stat raise.

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        • #94
          I've avoided this topic for a while, but I decided I'd like to point out a few things.

          1. Viviana is right. Attributes do make a lot of difference in the real world (I can't remember if she pointed this out in this thread, or one of the other agility threads, but she's still right on this point).

          2. I -feel- that raising raising agility is on par with raising skills as far as time cost/performance gain. It takes 140 hours to run the 4 obstacle course to completion. It takes many hours to accumulate 1000 rps. It also takes many hours to raise skill to overcome the performance disparity of characters with different stats. Whether this is true at selftrained skill levels I'm indifferent to.

          3. Characters with Average agility are not very average. If compared to other characters, they are probably decidedly below average (I consider this a problem). Players have and do reroll characters to get the stats they want.

          4. Characters do not all start out with the same stats, nor do they start out with random skills. Chargen does not allow players to allocate attributes as they'd like (if I were to venture a guess, this is to decrease min/maxing). Random attributes will never be fair(this is ok with me).

          5. Character re-rolling for higher attributes is rewarded significantly. I'm undecided if I think this is ok. One the one hand, players should be able to create characters who match the backgrounds or character concept they want to give them. On the other hand, twinking does occur.

          6. Some physical stats cost less to raise time-wise than others. Agility is one of the more expensive stats to raise.

          -Firetear
          in the storm.

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          • #95
            Agility is far too influencial, but that will never be supported by the people with the good stats.

            Andrew is always right.

            Originally posted by Arcano
            You not glad with your agility? raise it using your rps to get a potential stat raise.
            I shouldn't have to spend 5,000 rps to get the same stats as some guy who got lucky when he made his character. As Andrew pointed out earlier, the rp cost for potential stat increases needs to be lowered. Or take away the need for potential increases but restrict the amount of successful runs per day.
            I script the Ravines.

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            • #96
              Here's an idea... I don't know of it was proposed, but I've read most of the posts here...

              The bonus you get for agility could be based on it's relaitivity to average.

              For example:
              Andrew has very good agility and I have fairly good. his is two grades higher than me so it would be me as average but him as fairly good (two grades above average) when calculating the bonus for me to hit him. Likewise, for him to hit me he would be average and I would be... umm, poor? Also, it would lower one more grade for each person approached... so a person with inhuman could be touched if approached by a bunch of very good people

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              • #97
                Oh, and about tailoring basics.... thanks I really didn't understand

                [edit- my basic would be about 30 ranks higher if this were in place 8)]
                Last edited by NewPatriot; 06-03-2002, 04:15 PM.

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                • #98
                  Actually not all my characters have good agility. The fact remains that if 2 people are making characters with the same skill set, they have the same chance of making an agile character. If you are making a non-combat character, you should really have to make up for the fact that combat wasn't what that character was created to be. And the fact remains that it is reversible. A lot more easily than other stats. And I stand by my statement that other physical stats are more important than a lot of people think.


                  Viv

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                  • #99
                    Lemme reiterate.

                    Agility is THE MAIN combat stat. If you have bad agility, you are not going to be a very good combatant. Perhaps you might want to look into tailoring, I hear it's nice.

                    If you want to force the issue, you can raise your agility. Yes, it's expensive. But it's available. It just means you have to choose between that blackened iron helmet with a faceplate fashioned to look like Satan himself, or actually being a good fighter.

                    Firetear, you should support this issue 100%. You were the one saying that ranks shouldn't be the only thing involved in making a good fighter. Well, they're not. As I pointed out in that other thread, stats play a fairly large part. This falls under "natural ability". But even if you have godly stats, you still have to train to be effective.

                    Some characters are just going to suck at fighting. It's not realistic to expect everyone to be on equal footing. Real life is not that way, and I think this game reflects it pretty well. If you're trying to overcome the disadvantage, expect to put a LOT of time and work into it.

                    P.S. Most folks have heard of Bjergar. One of the all time greatest fighters in this game. I've heard, but just from hearsay, that he spent not once, but TWICE to raise his agility potential. Then ran the courses to max it out. Was it a lot of work? Undoubtedly. Did it pay off? As far as I know, his match hasn't and will not be seen in the forseeable future. Sort of the Michael Jordan of TEC combat.
                    The Sunfish speaks.

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                    • maybe if things like fairly good-very good attributes weren't so common, things like average would ACTUALLY be average.
                      Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
                      I thought it was just a rumor that it was all number-crunching and competitive training in a game with no logical endpoint since characters are ostensibly immortal and can always get better.

                      You mean it's true?
                      Originally posted by Phwoar
                      Maybe I'm just becoming some tea-sipping hippy, or maybe I'm sour because my main uses cesti, but, why sacrifice a character idea for the sake of some hypothetical edge in some imagined combat situation in the distant future?
                      Originally posted by Elowynn
                      Rupert is like the Snowden champion of TEC.

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                      • I think blazing physical stats are a lot rarer now. Mental stats, well they are another thing.


                        Viv

                        [misses her inhumanly fast knifer with good strength]

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                        • Originally posted by Solartuna
                          Firetear, you should support this issue 100%. You were the one saying that ranks shouldn't be the only thing involved in making a good fighter. Well, they're not. As I pointed out in that other thread, stats play a fairly large part. This falls under "natural ability". But even if you have godly stats, you still have to train to be effective.
                          It's sounds like you selectively read posts.

                          I was the one saying that simple numbers inflated by time and mind numbing tedium shouldn't be the only way to make a good fighter. It doesn't matter to me whether those numbers are skills, stats, attributes, or whatever you want to call them.

                          Nothing I stated said whether or not I was for or against agility's impact on combat. In real life agility does have a great deal of impact.

                          In real life agility is not raised solely by spending RPs and running obstacle courses.

                          But if you're going to make assumptions about what I advocate, running the obstacle courses is an order of magnitude more tedious than training skills, and takes more time (though I contended that the time factor felt like it's to scale benefits wise).

                          The only thing I like about it is that they're random... this becomes a double-edged sword, though, with re-rolling which is highly rewarded.

                          If I were going to try and make suggestions about agility, I would instead suggest changing chargen to where players could pick certain stats or skills (yes, either) that would be a priority for the character they were making (though still fairly random) and then increase the time between re-rolls to a week or more. This would give players enough control over their beginning stats and skills to make them match their concept of the character, yet discourage re-rolling and twinking (unless the twink was particularly patient). Other than that, if you're going for realistic (which I often do) have more ways to raise attributes than the tedium of the obstacle course.

                          At it's root, though, attributes aren't much of a different mechanism from skills, they're just less embellished, less affected by the cleverness of the player, and called something else.

                          -Firetear
                          in the storm.

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                          • *bangs his head against the wall*

                            No, I read every freaking post in that insanely long debate.

                            What you seem to be advocating is a system wherein the character is only limited by the player himself. Where it doesn't matter if the character is a pigeon-toed, asthmatic cripple who never hefted a weapon before, he should be able to take out anyone simply because you as the player have clever little ideas about how you as a player could do it in real life.

                            This is a game. It's actually a bit backwards of that. Where we, as overweight or anorexic or crippled or depressed or what have you, put ourselves into a character. This means that now, we are no longer limited by our OWN shortcomings, but we ARE limited by those of the character we choose to become. If our character is not a natural fighter, it is going to require a LOT of work/training to get him to become a good fighter. The basis for this is mechanics. Without them, you get a freeform emote game, which is what you earlier mentioned you did not want.

                            P.S. I didn't say whether or not you did support it. From your post, I couldn't really tell. What I said is that you should support it, from your previous stance. *shrugs*
                            The Sunfish speaks.

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                            • riiiight.. hard to get physical stats.. so hard I just rolled a character with good agility, speed, and exceptional strength..
                              Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
                              I thought it was just a rumor that it was all number-crunching and competitive training in a game with no logical endpoint since characters are ostensibly immortal and can always get better.

                              You mean it's true?
                              Originally posted by Phwoar
                              Maybe I'm just becoming some tea-sipping hippy, or maybe I'm sour because my main uses cesti, but, why sacrifice a character idea for the sake of some hypothetical edge in some imagined combat situation in the distant future?
                              Originally posted by Elowynn
                              Rupert is like the Snowden champion of TEC.

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                              • Uhm those aren't blazin'


                                Viv

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