Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Emotes in Yelling?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    RL or IG ?

    In either one I've never yelled at someone I couldn't see unless it was "Keep yelling so I can find you." and "Can you hear me, come this way."

    Other than that I have never yelled a "frinedly greeting" at someone I couldln't look and see. Most of Nomad's yells are to people in the next "spot" like the pits or the mines. where he can look and see who he is yelling at.

    RL you can both hear me yell, and see me gesture a block away. And why else would I be yelling at you if I couldn't see you and know you were there ?

    IG I can see you in the next room. You are standling, laying, sitting, or kneeling. I know yoiu are there and you can hear me yell and look and see me. You just can't see what kind of gestures I am making. So I fill in what you would see RL. (To me this seems like RP.)

    There does seem to be a difference. RL I would make the gesture "Blows you a kiss." IG I yell *Hugs*. I think cuz I'm lazy and don't want to type it all out. Either way tho I'm sure the objection would be the same.

    So I guess we are at the conundrom of Game vs. Life. Are we role playing in our yelling that we can see the actions of the person we can look into the next room and "see", or are we admiting we are playing a game and admitting we can't possibly see the actions of the person in the next room, as we would RL? In which case we omit all gestures.

    But if we admit that we are in a game and are limited to the game mechanics rather than what we could achieve RL, doesn't that make for bad RP?

    And I have to go back to my personal experience with sign language. I can sign to you from two or three times further away than I can yell. The tendency of many members of my family would be to stand where they can be seen and then sign (gesture). If they yell it is only to get your original attention.

    I don't see the GM's taking the time to include a "long distance gesture" command so that "You see Nomad waving to the northwest", partly because I don't think the result would be worth the effort that could better be applied to more interesting things, espcially when that gesture can be included with the "Yell" command.

    On the other hand I do have to agree that "Pharsos yells *asskicks Nomad for being a wuss*" or "Jessa yells *Bonks Nomad for being brainless.*" is streatching things a bit, but I think it is more in the nature of having fun than either good or bad RPing. Just as in real life most yelling in my experience is good natured funning, like "Get away from that truck, fool, you don't know how to drive it." or "Whose car you stealing now?" and "Does your momma know yoiu are out after dark?" at which point the person being yelled at usually makes a gesture. And of course you cannot possibly see an eyebrow raise from that distance.

    Seen as the game mecanics does not allow for gesturiuing over a distence and does not permit you to see the actions of a person a room or two away, we are either stuck with the unrealistic "including gestures with yells" or the equally unrealistic "You can't see the person in the game as you can RL, so lets not RP that we can."

    Atama, I believe our disagreement can be summed up as follows.

    You believe that you can hear someone yelling from a further distance than you can see them gesture effectivly.

    I believe that you can see effectively much further than you can yell.

    and

    You believe the gestures should not be included with the "yell" command.

    I don't see any other reasonable way to get them across.

    and

    You believe that emotional content of yells can be contained in one or two simple words, (franticly, tenderly, etc)

    I believe the emotionaly content of common TEC emotes is both more complex and compact than that. *eyeshift*, *Raised eyebrow*, and *asskicks* convey complex emotional content that is not easily embodied in a word or two. Partly because in proper english you can't "Yell quizically" you have to "yell with a quizical tone in your voice."

    While we agree that many of the gestures and emotes used are impossible, (seeing raised eyebrows, long distence asskicks, etc) you see them as serioius breeches of RP, and I see them as "horseplay" and TEC shorthand for longwinded descriptions of emotional content.

    Even if you agreed with me with a 90 success there would still be the question of what would or would not be IC and / or OOC within yells.

    On the other hand, who else but a char from TEC would emote such stuff on any level ?

    I dare you to go down to the mall and act like that.


    Comment


    • #17
      I see lots of freaks in the local malls. I'm sure it wouldn't stick out that badly.

      I see your point, but there are situations, like if you're in a room seperated by a closed door, you could hear someone yelling but not see them gesturing. How can someone account for that?

      It's safest not to allow gestures at all IMO in yells.

      I think we have to tailor RP to match the gameworld. Yes, it seems silly that you can't examine someone who is a little down the road from you, but the way the game is designed that's how it is.

      I wouldn't mind a gesturing version of yell, where you can have your character wave his arms and people in adjacent areas will see on their screen "Nomad waves to you from the northwest". But that leads to line-of-sight issues, where you would see someone from a location that you shouldn't. The only way around THAT is to set up some very complicated system where every area "knows" in the code what it can and can't see from the surrounding... Like if you're outside the Toga you can't see someone on the other side of a closed door but you can see someone down the street. Way too complicated.

      Sound carries through where sight won't, it isn't too much of a stretch to just assume anyone close enough can hear you regardless of where they are, but there are situations where you just can't see someone who is close to you.

      Also... You need to be looking at someone to see them, but you will always hear someone close to you. The likelihood of hearing someone shout as opposed to seeing them gesture to you out of nowhere is much higher.

      Basically, it's just too hard to justify emoting over a distance. Just let your yells carry sound which is what are intended.
      Lovecraft Country: Albert Zero
      Castle Marrach: Cody the Blade


      StoryCoder Azrael tells StoryHermit Death, "I *did* get told "you're amazing" by a girl when I was saucing my hotdog..."

      Comment


      • #18
        Atama, you weren't around for the 'watch' command. When it was turned on, you could see people approaching from several squares away depending on your perception. It was great for areas like Monlon or Grey Sands, or any of the forests. In town in the more crowded areas lilke the alleys, it was a pain. Especially when you have people spamming your screen by entering and leaving your area, back and forth criss-crossing and such instead of finding a spot and staying there (a technique that gives me far better success than pacing the entire hunting area).

        I went to a 7-11 and asked the clerk for five dollars worth of gas. She farted and handed me a receipt.

        Originally posted by kamikazehiker
        Or. . .
        We can all acknowledge that Jolee is right, get over it, and shut up.

        A thief burst into a Florida bank one day wearing a ski mask and carrying a gun. Aiming his gun at the guard, the thief yelled, "FREEZE, MOTHER-STICKERS, THIS IS A ****-UP!"

        Unwary: "Jolee rocks!"

        "Of course she does, she's related to me. "

        -Firetear

        Comment


        • #19
          "Watch" sounds like it makes alot more sense than yelling out your actions.

          And it would also solve what Nomad was talking about. You could yell "Over here!" and then watch the direction you heard the yell from, and see them gesturing to you.

          Oh, and the line-of-sight thing is easily solved if you watch exits... Like you can watch the north area if the north exit is a road, but not the south are if the south exit is a locked door.

          What happened to it?
          Lovecraft Country: Albert Zero
          Castle Marrach: Cody the Blade


          StoryCoder Azrael tells StoryHermit Death, "I *did* get told "you're amazing" by a girl when I was saucing my hotdog..."

          Comment


          • #20
            If I remember correctly, it was said to be causing too much lag. Now that we are at Skotos, I don't know what the hold up is. Maybe they are tweaking.

            Comment


            • #21
              Actually, all you could do was sense or see someone approaching. You couldn't see gestures. That would be a nice addition.
              I went to a 7-11 and asked the clerk for five dollars worth of gas. She farted and handed me a receipt.

              Originally posted by kamikazehiker
              Or. . .
              We can all acknowledge that Jolee is right, get over it, and shut up.

              A thief burst into a Florida bank one day wearing a ski mask and carrying a gun. Aiming his gun at the guard, the thief yelled, "FREEZE, MOTHER-STICKERS, THIS IS A ****-UP!"

              Unwary: "Jolee rocks!"

              "Of course she does, she's related to me. "

              -Firetear

              Comment


              • #22
                Watch was cool when you were playing a thiefy type, but I heard it created a lot of system lag. Last time it worked was like six months ago.

                What it did Atama was just gave you a message like "someone is moving to the northeast of you". You toggled it on and off like being submissive. It got to be overwhelming sometimes and really it is kind of ooc since there is a lot of movement in crowds and things in town.


                Viviana

                Comment


                • #23
                  It was only OOC in cities, Viviana. As Jolee pointed out, the watch command was great for quieter areas...places where it'd be quite easy to hear/see/sense a person or creature moving near you. (Drunk brigands make a lot of noise stumbling around the forest. ) Whether coding the command so that we could still use it in less crowded areas is feasible...That's something I don't know...but I'd certainly appreciate it if it happened.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Only meant that it was OOC in cities

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Atama is absolutely correct. Actions may be what one is inclined to do when they feel a certain emotion, but they are not by any means the actual emotion themselves. Two people may perform the same action for very different reasons. One particular culprit that comes to mind is the 'sigh' action. Some people have labeled this as solely an expression of down-heartedness, so when it is used in any context other than that, they become a bit confused, having misinterpreted the situation.

                      This is where the versatility of the emote command has an opportunity to shine. Someone once posted in the old forums, complaining about people colouring their emotes with adverbs or adjectives. They said something along the lines of "I don't care if you're smiling softly, broadly, happily, sadly, whatever! You're smiling, that's it". I really did disagree with this and still do. If adjectives and adverbs weren't important, we wouldn't have that newly implemented system. If you hang around some of the characters who are frequently on the top-ten list, you'll find all sorts of 'colourization'. The emote command is a wonderful tool, take the time to use it and develop some uniqueness to your characters.

                      Now...back to the original issue. Specifying the tone of a yell (*lovingly*, *playfully*) is much better than tagging an action to a sound. Until we have the ability to: Joe yells angrily, "Hey!!" (which is a smashing idea ), this might be a good alternative. All you can do is give it a shot and see how it turns out.

                      Thank you for your time,
                      Helio's player

                      (if this seems out of place, I was replying to the last two posts on the first page...didn't even see page two)
                      "There is hopeful symbolism in the fact that flags do not wave in a vacuum."
                      ~Arthur C. Clark

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Erm.

                        Govan yells from the east, "*hugs*"

                        Versus

                        Govn yells from the east, "Hugs to everyone!"

                        If you're going to yell an emote, put it into words.

                        I mean...govan yells "star hugs star" or "asterisk hug asterisk" just dun make sense

                        For the hugs, whaps, eyeshifts, etc that go on in yells, just WORD it...dont emote it.

                        hugs to everyone, when I catch yer sorry arse yer getting a major whap, uhm, cant think of a way to word eyeshift.

                        It's laziness at its best and its a horrible thing to see.
                        Least likely to train: Govan.. actually, I should say her player. Accompanied an alt of hers training once and after she had spent fifteen minutes deciding on the wardrobe, we got all of two minutes in before she was bored.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Govan is correct.

                          Fact is:
                          Yell = Sound.
                          Under no circumstances can you yell your actual action. But you can yell WHAT you are doing.

                          If you do do it you should consider the fact that you are in grounds for OOC warnings and just doing downright bad RPing.

                          Why don't I start yelling things like this?
                          " <::::::::::::::::::|===o "

                          It is the exact same thing as yelling an action.
                          Let me repeat.
                          It is the exact same thing.

                          So why do you yell "actions" and not "pictures"?
                          It is the exact same thing.

                          Fact is neither is acceptable.
                          It is just PURE LAZINESS

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Lazy ? Stupid ? Slow ?

                            Just trying to get by!

                            Actually I am capable of much better RP than I do, have done, or ever will do. While I admire some people's ability to RP and will hang around just to watch them do it when I have the chance, I seldom even try anymore myself. So I will never make RPer of the month. In fact I've never, in all the time I've been here even gotten any kind of a bonus for participating in events, nor do I expect to.

                            The reason is simple.

                            By the time I have done any of these wonderful, elegant things, the person I'm trying to RP with has decided I''ve been ignoring them, is fed up with my attitude, and is gone. Then I'm standing there RPing to an empty room, or to people who are pointing out to me the person is long gone, or now I have to erase all my flowery garbage and trying to catch up to the next thing that is going on.

                            I even have trouble when I talk normal and skip the RP.

                            Tyranthan walks into the pits and says to Nomad, "Hey, bud, how are you doing?" and I reply smiling, "Tyranthan, Good to see you again. Jump on in.", but he's already gotten tired of waiting for me to answer a simple greeting and has left the pits feeling ignored.

                            So instead of learning all these vaunted RP skills what I have tried to school myself to do is cut down on words.

                            "tyr Jump in."

                            and skip the pleasentries.

                            The same is true of Yelling. By the time I've done a Govan and shouted out, "Hugs to everyone." Everyone I know is gone and some strang guy is down there wondering who the hell I am and why I'm getting fresh with him.

                            So I'm learning to "Un" RP.

                            While I agree that the more you hang around good RPers the better your RPing will become, it is just plain glib to say, "Find an IG reason to hang around with them.

                            You have to be able to go where they go.

                            Nomad yells to Dragoon in the next room, "Hey, bud, can I come and hunt with you so I can get my butt killed a few times while I learn to be slick and suave like you so all the chicks will swoon over me too?"

                            Yeah. Sounds good to me. Worth the price anyday.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Govan, I agree with you. It's like being on the phone to your friend and saying "Kisses!". You can yell "hugs to everyone", stating the desire to hug people, and that'll convey that you are showing affection. Totally appropriate.

                              Hmm... I guess it sounds like the "viewing actions from a distance" thing is possibly beyond the capabilities of the client and/or server. That's a shame, it would be cool to be able to gesture to people from a distance like Nomad said, cause his posts really got me thinking.

                              Oh well... It's a game, and we have to live with restrictions. I've assumed that areas/rooms are far enough apart that you can see other people with the "scan" command but can't see them well enough to tell details about them or see what they're doing. That for me is enough of a justification to make the limitations make since IC. I don't like working around those justifications by abusing something like Yell.
                              Lovecraft Country: Albert Zero
                              Castle Marrach: Cody the Blade


                              StoryCoder Azrael tells StoryHermit Death, "I *did* get told "you're amazing" by a girl when I was saucing my hotdog..."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Well, theoretically, you can see one square around you easily. Makes sense, right? But beyond that, you're getting a bit far, imho. Think...how big are these squares? How many people are around within those squares? How many people are you yelling through?

                                In the city, the colosseum, theoretically, you're in a crowd. It is not realistic to be on the other side of the colosseum and yelling *hugs* because there are so many people around. Even if you're one square away from someone, the chances to see someone through the crowd is unrealistic. Again, using the hugs as an example, how the hell do you hug someone who is not with you?

                                Govan yells, "Mathus! Get back here!"
                                Mathus walks in from a cobblestone street.
                                Govan hugs Mathus.
                                Govan says to Mathus, "You walk too fast, I barely saw you. Silly."
                                Mathus hugs Govan.
                                Mathus walks out to a cobblestone street to the west.

                                Now, that could all be done with a:

                                Govan yells, "*hugs Mathus*"

                                But what would the point be? I'm -NOT- hugging him.

                                Govan yells, "Hey Mathus! Get over here, I owe you a hug!"

                                Much more appropriate.

                                Let's use eyeshift (which is NOT OOC When people use it, it's NOT supposed to not be noticed, it's supposed to be very obvious to convey non-seriousness).

                                But again, assuming you're in a crowded area, like on the street or in the colosseum, even one square away, how are people going to see you through ALL the other people? And even if they could see you through the crowd, are they going to notice someone's eyes shift back and forth?

                                Pretend you're on a stage: When you look out at the crowd, that is the "next square." Can you pick out your specific friends in a crowd, and can they hug you, kiss you, tickle you, eyeshift at you....all the way over there?

                                No.

                                Emotes are you DOING SOMETHING. It's there to enable you to actually do things outside of a strict emote system. It's there to be able to let you do things.

                                You can't do anything from a square away, and you can't hug, kiss, tickle people unless you are right beside them.

                                The use of asterisks, dashes, squares - it's symbolic of an action. And you can't do actions through yells is what this comes down to.

                                [editted for spelling errors]
                                Least likely to train: Govan.. actually, I should say her player. Accompanied an alt of hers training once and after she had spent fifteen minutes deciding on the wardrobe, we got all of two minutes in before she was bored.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X