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Emotes in Yelling?

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  • Nomad
    replied
    I think we are dealing with 3 things here.

    1) The limitations of the English language. We have a word "Yell" meaning to make a loud noise that can be heard a long ways away, but we do not have a word for a gesture that is seen a long ways away, let alone a word that encompasses both. If we did I think this convo would be different.

    2) A lack of shared experience. I seem to be the only person here who knows sign language. But one of my daughters pointed something out to me I had not thot of, as I am not a sports fan.

    Baseball and football umpires use signs that can be seen by every fan in the stadium to convey their messages. They don't yell.

    To Govan.

    Take your index finger and point at the person you are taling to at about rib high. Now make a tickling motion. Almost everyone will understand yoiu are signing *tickle you*.

    Take your hands, ball them into fists, and bring them up to your chest, crossing them. This is the sign for *Hug you* and also *Love you*.

    Take your two fingers, index and ring, and turn them toward yoiur eyes as tho you were going to poke your eyes. (This shows you are signing about your eyes) now turn them toward the person you are talking to, bend them slightly and shake them. --- You just did an *eyeshift* in sighn language.

    As for a kiss, come on, have you never blown a kiss to a friend across a crowded store ?

    There is of course one other Major difference between yelling and signing over a long distance. When you yell everyone within earshot knows you are doing it. It is Very Intrusive. When my family and I sign across a crowded room, sometimes 3 or more of us carrying on a convo, and none of us closer than 10 feet to the other, almost no one ever notices that we are doing it.

    and of course the third one, the one that perhaps rules us most.

    3) The capability of game mechanics. Obviously there are many things that cannot be done. And of the things that can be done you have to choose the greatest benefit for the time devoted to it. I don't think anyone would consider solving this worth the effort.

    The upshot for me on this topic is that I have said everything I can possibly say on it. And while I will personally never critisize anyone else for emoting while yelling, I will try to avoid it in my own yells.

    Leave a comment:


  • Helio
    replied
    Nomad,

    I understand the point you are making, and would just like to comment on some things that you brought to mind. They are simply viewpoints and alternatives so please don't take them personally, as I respect your position.

    For those who want to role-play, you know that you need two things. People to interact with, and situations to define your character by. You need to find people who want the same thing, and have the patience to do so. All actions in the game are delayed due to reasons of typing, lag, etc... so some waiting will always be required. If the people you are playing with have better things to do than wait a few extra seconds for a non-IRC type greeting, and this frustrates you, I'd say you need to find new people to play with. Emotes do not need to be long, beautiful and elegant things, they just need to convey what you are trying to get across. If you're not constantly hitting the up arrow and enter buttons, or clicking the macro bar, your typing usually becomes adequate enough to write out a full name, or add a word or two here and there without losing an insane amout of time. I will cry the day I see people conversing like this:

    "Hi J, how R U?"

    "Good thanx, brb"

    "K"...and have it be acceptable. There is no shortage of people who are willing to carry on a conversation, or share their knowledge/experiences, you just have to find them. And if this really doesn't interest you, all you have to do is stay IC as much as possible while in-game, simply because it is required. If you cannot have fun while doing this then this may not be the game for you. I think we'd all agree to say that the most important thing is that we all enjoy ourselves without infringing upon the enjoyment of others.

    Thank you for your time,
    Helio's player

    Leave a comment:


  • Govan
    replied
    Well, theoretically, you can see one square around you easily. Makes sense, right? But beyond that, you're getting a bit far, imho. Think...how big are these squares? How many people are around within those squares? How many people are you yelling through?

    In the city, the colosseum, theoretically, you're in a crowd. It is not realistic to be on the other side of the colosseum and yelling *hugs* because there are so many people around. Even if you're one square away from someone, the chances to see someone through the crowd is unrealistic. Again, using the hugs as an example, how the hell do you hug someone who is not with you?

    Govan yells, "Mathus! Get back here!"
    Mathus walks in from a cobblestone street.
    Govan hugs Mathus.
    Govan says to Mathus, "You walk too fast, I barely saw you. Silly."
    Mathus hugs Govan.
    Mathus walks out to a cobblestone street to the west.

    Now, that could all be done with a:

    Govan yells, "*hugs Mathus*"

    But what would the point be? I'm -NOT- hugging him.

    Govan yells, "Hey Mathus! Get over here, I owe you a hug!"

    Much more appropriate.

    Let's use eyeshift (which is NOT OOC When people use it, it's NOT supposed to not be noticed, it's supposed to be very obvious to convey non-seriousness).

    But again, assuming you're in a crowded area, like on the street or in the colosseum, even one square away, how are people going to see you through ALL the other people? And even if they could see you through the crowd, are they going to notice someone's eyes shift back and forth?

    Pretend you're on a stage: When you look out at the crowd, that is the "next square." Can you pick out your specific friends in a crowd, and can they hug you, kiss you, tickle you, eyeshift at you....all the way over there?

    No.

    Emotes are you DOING SOMETHING. It's there to enable you to actually do things outside of a strict emote system. It's there to be able to let you do things.

    You can't do anything from a square away, and you can't hug, kiss, tickle people unless you are right beside them.

    The use of asterisks, dashes, squares - it's symbolic of an action. And you can't do actions through yells is what this comes down to.

    [editted for spelling errors]

    Leave a comment:


  • Atama
    replied
    Govan, I agree with you. It's like being on the phone to your friend and saying "Kisses!". You can yell "hugs to everyone", stating the desire to hug people, and that'll convey that you are showing affection. Totally appropriate.

    Hmm... I guess it sounds like the "viewing actions from a distance" thing is possibly beyond the capabilities of the client and/or server. That's a shame, it would be cool to be able to gesture to people from a distance like Nomad said, cause his posts really got me thinking.

    Oh well... It's a game, and we have to live with restrictions. I've assumed that areas/rooms are far enough apart that you can see other people with the "scan" command but can't see them well enough to tell details about them or see what they're doing. That for me is enough of a justification to make the limitations make since IC. I don't like working around those justifications by abusing something like Yell.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nomad
    replied
    Lazy ? Stupid ? Slow ?

    Just trying to get by!

    Actually I am capable of much better RP than I do, have done, or ever will do. While I admire some people's ability to RP and will hang around just to watch them do it when I have the chance, I seldom even try anymore myself. So I will never make RPer of the month. In fact I've never, in all the time I've been here even gotten any kind of a bonus for participating in events, nor do I expect to.

    The reason is simple.

    By the time I have done any of these wonderful, elegant things, the person I'm trying to RP with has decided I''ve been ignoring them, is fed up with my attitude, and is gone. Then I'm standing there RPing to an empty room, or to people who are pointing out to me the person is long gone, or now I have to erase all my flowery garbage and trying to catch up to the next thing that is going on.

    I even have trouble when I talk normal and skip the RP.

    Tyranthan walks into the pits and says to Nomad, "Hey, bud, how are you doing?" and I reply smiling, "Tyranthan, Good to see you again. Jump on in.", but he's already gotten tired of waiting for me to answer a simple greeting and has left the pits feeling ignored.

    So instead of learning all these vaunted RP skills what I have tried to school myself to do is cut down on words.

    "tyr Jump in."

    and skip the pleasentries.

    The same is true of Yelling. By the time I've done a Govan and shouted out, "Hugs to everyone." Everyone I know is gone and some strang guy is down there wondering who the hell I am and why I'm getting fresh with him.

    So I'm learning to "Un" RP.

    While I agree that the more you hang around good RPers the better your RPing will become, it is just plain glib to say, "Find an IG reason to hang around with them.

    You have to be able to go where they go.

    Nomad yells to Dragoon in the next room, "Hey, bud, can I come and hunt with you so I can get my butt killed a few times while I learn to be slick and suave like you so all the chicks will swoon over me too?"

    Yeah. Sounds good to me. Worth the price anyday.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hydropig1
    replied
    Govan is correct.

    Fact is:
    Yell = Sound.
    Under no circumstances can you yell your actual action. But you can yell WHAT you are doing.

    If you do do it you should consider the fact that you are in grounds for OOC warnings and just doing downright bad RPing.

    Why don't I start yelling things like this?
    " <::::::::::::::::::|===o "

    It is the exact same thing as yelling an action.
    Let me repeat.
    It is the exact same thing.

    So why do you yell "actions" and not "pictures"?
    It is the exact same thing.

    Fact is neither is acceptable.
    It is just PURE LAZINESS

    Leave a comment:


  • Govan
    replied
    Erm.

    Govan yells from the east, "*hugs*"

    Versus

    Govn yells from the east, "Hugs to everyone!"

    If you're going to yell an emote, put it into words.

    I mean...govan yells "star hugs star" or "asterisk hug asterisk" just dun make sense

    For the hugs, whaps, eyeshifts, etc that go on in yells, just WORD it...dont emote it.

    hugs to everyone, when I catch yer sorry arse yer getting a major whap, uhm, cant think of a way to word eyeshift.

    It's laziness at its best and its a horrible thing to see.

    Leave a comment:


  • Helio
    replied
    Atama is absolutely correct. Actions may be what one is inclined to do when they feel a certain emotion, but they are not by any means the actual emotion themselves. Two people may perform the same action for very different reasons. One particular culprit that comes to mind is the 'sigh' action. Some people have labeled this as solely an expression of down-heartedness, so when it is used in any context other than that, they become a bit confused, having misinterpreted the situation.

    This is where the versatility of the emote command has an opportunity to shine. Someone once posted in the old forums, complaining about people colouring their emotes with adverbs or adjectives. They said something along the lines of "I don't care if you're smiling softly, broadly, happily, sadly, whatever! You're smiling, that's it". I really did disagree with this and still do. If adjectives and adverbs weren't important, we wouldn't have that newly implemented system. If you hang around some of the characters who are frequently on the top-ten list, you'll find all sorts of 'colourization'. The emote command is a wonderful tool, take the time to use it and develop some uniqueness to your characters.

    Now...back to the original issue. Specifying the tone of a yell (*lovingly*, *playfully*) is much better than tagging an action to a sound. Until we have the ability to: Joe yells angrily, "Hey!!" (which is a smashing idea ), this might be a good alternative. All you can do is give it a shot and see how it turns out.

    Thank you for your time,
    Helio's player

    (if this seems out of place, I was replying to the last two posts on the first page...didn't even see page two)

    Leave a comment:


  • Viviana
    replied
    Only meant that it was OOC in cities

    Leave a comment:


  • Poggio
    replied
    It was only OOC in cities, Viviana. As Jolee pointed out, the watch command was great for quieter areas...places where it'd be quite easy to hear/see/sense a person or creature moving near you. (Drunk brigands make a lot of noise stumbling around the forest. ) Whether coding the command so that we could still use it in less crowded areas is feasible...That's something I don't know...but I'd certainly appreciate it if it happened.

    Leave a comment:


  • Viviana
    replied
    Watch was cool when you were playing a thiefy type, but I heard it created a lot of system lag. Last time it worked was like six months ago.

    What it did Atama was just gave you a message like "someone is moving to the northeast of you". You toggled it on and off like being submissive. It got to be overwhelming sometimes and really it is kind of ooc since there is a lot of movement in crowds and things in town.


    Viviana

    Leave a comment:


  • Jolee
    replied
    Actually, all you could do was sense or see someone approaching. You couldn't see gestures. That would be a nice addition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Enkar
    replied
    If I remember correctly, it was said to be causing too much lag. Now that we are at Skotos, I don't know what the hold up is. Maybe they are tweaking.

    Leave a comment:


  • Atama
    replied
    "Watch" sounds like it makes alot more sense than yelling out your actions.

    And it would also solve what Nomad was talking about. You could yell "Over here!" and then watch the direction you heard the yell from, and see them gesturing to you.

    Oh, and the line-of-sight thing is easily solved if you watch exits... Like you can watch the north area if the north exit is a road, but not the south are if the south exit is a locked door.

    What happened to it?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jolee
    replied
    Atama, you weren't around for the 'watch' command. When it was turned on, you could see people approaching from several squares away depending on your perception. It was great for areas like Monlon or Grey Sands, or any of the forests. In town in the more crowded areas lilke the alleys, it was a pain. Especially when you have people spamming your screen by entering and leaving your area, back and forth criss-crossing and such instead of finding a spot and staying there (a technique that gives me far better success than pacing the entire hunting area).

    Leave a comment:

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