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  • #16
    The only unfortunate side to this is it makes the stat gap a good bit worse than it was. at 239 dex, you're talking a massive to-hit bonus difference that ranks will -never- even close to make up for.

    Every char rolled from here forward will be traits with bonuses to agility and dex as the main choices, as strength,endurance,speed and perception simply aren't nearly as powerful. I'll do my best to test the strength part of this anyways, but I have a feeling being able to do max level damage at 25 over roll instead of 37 over roll won't matter if I'm at a 60 point to-hit disadvantage

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    • #17
      Yes, they probably should cap out the maximum at 5% (10 pts) or if multiple positive traits 10%. 20% is waaaaay too much.
      Originally posted by urek23
      On a scale from spawning-monsters-is-an-event to three-armors-fit-in-a-sack-on-purpose, how useless am I?

      Fixed12345

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Ilkilyn View Post

        Every char rolled from here forward will be traits with bonuses to agility and dex as the main choices, as strength,endurance,speed and perception simply aren't nearly as powerful. I'll do my best to test the strength part of this anyways, but I have a feeling being able to do max level damage at 25 over roll instead of 37 over roll won't matter if I'm at a 60 point to-hit disadvantage
        I don't know. If you could get near 220-240 speed I believe you'd see some traditionally slow weapons turn into godly weapons. Couple that with the dex bonus and you've probably won TEC.

        When I logged in last night I was asked if the post made sense and the first thing I did was request real numbers be used since those of us who would understand it in the first place already know what does what. I also expressed extreme concern about letting stats run up past 200 and how it will skew game balance. Attribute changes are one place where transparency would be really nice. Some of us put tens of thousands of RPs into attributes. This isn't a "learn 50 more ranks" change.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Syden View Post
          But if you manage to run the courses and get a successful increase let me know because I cant.
          I bought some increases for Strength, which was previously maxed, and I was able to train them at the courses.

          My encumbrance limit did not change at all. I guess perhaps it will affect my damage rolls in combat?


          So if I understand this change correctly, this means that every previously-maxed stat that I can now train is taking me beyond 200. Right?


          Addendum:
          I guess the impact of this change remains to be seen. It sounds like it will make combat more varied, though I'm not sure if that means more interesting or more frustrating. It will probably take some time to really tell. It certainly sounds like it will be a significant benefit to those characters who happen to have the largest bonuses in dexterity and agility.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jkidd View Post
            Yes, they probably should cap out the maximum at 5% (10 pts) or if multiple positive traits 10%. 20% is waaaaay too much.
            Hrm, or what if certain stat bonuses were also affected by stance, but based as a percentage of points over stat-skill level (170 I think?)

            In other words, dexterity, primarily used for offense, in berserk would indeed give a +35 to hit for someone at 240 dex compared to 170 stat skill. But in normal, that bonus would only be at +17, or effectively 204 dexterity. (170 + 35 effective dex points). This would also effectively reduce the stat gap when a person is fighting counter to their natural stats. In other words, if someone is naturally perceptive and dextrous, but not agile, when fighting defensively their perception and dex bonuses would be minimized. Someone who is naturally agile though would have the massive increase in agility in wary or defensive however compared to others.

            I think this should also be true for other stats like strength, where being more berserk means getting the full bonus of damage, but fighting defensively and getting a lucky hit shouldn't easily land a devastating cut.

            Just throwing stuff out there I guess

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            • #21
              Yeah, but with the changes, you can now hit 10 then the bonus from the traits and other things will push you further. While you can hit 10 with the negative traits, but the penalty will drop you below that. Or at least that's what I got from it.
              You are correct.
              Game Master Sceadu

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              • #22
                I don't know. If you could get near 220-240 speed I believe you'd see some traditionally slow weapons turn into godly weapons. Couple that with the dex bonus and you've probably won TEC.
                Due to balance issues the weapons themselves, in a sense, have their own speed caps on them. If you notice something that contradicts this, please @report.
                Game Master Sceadu

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                • #23
                  Sceadu could you please comment on the stat vs stat skill gap? Are there any concerns on the disparity this might create and are there any plans to address this in any way? ( Of course while still being fair and rightfully allowing a certain level of benefit to those that have invested much into these stats)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Irisa View Post
                    So if I understand this change correctly, this means that every previously-maxed stat that I can now train is taking me beyond 200. Right?


                    Addendum:
                    I guess the impact of this change remains to be seen. It sounds like it will make combat more varied, though I'm not sure if that means more interesting or more frustrating. It will probably take some time to really tell. It certainly sounds like it will be a significant benefit to those characters who happen to have the largest bonuses in dexterity and agilit.
                    It can be taken above 200 if you have a trait that gives it a boost. If not 200 is where you are left. As far as it's effect on combat, it depends on your weapon... most of them are balanced, only a few fall into the "Only good against the same weapon or the bottom 3 combat skill" range.

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                    • #25
                      Sceadu could you please comment on the stat vs stat skill gap? Are there any concerns on the disparity this might create and are there any plans to address this in any way?
                      "Stat skills" don't actually affect your attributes. They are figured in the numbers during combat, therefor this change shouldn't affect them at all.
                      Game Master Sceadu

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sceadu View Post

                        "Stat skills" don't actually affect your attributes. They are figured in the numbers during combat, therefor this change shouldn't affect them at all.
                        I meant in terms of the "meta" reason that stat-skills exist in the first place, which is to close the gap between those with massive stat increases (also pay-to-win) and free accounts. Previously a fight at 10k ranks could be easily won based on the following:

                        Person A has maxed all stats, Person B has only stat skill-level attributes.

                        Person A has at least a 25 point to-hit bonus (15 from dex, 7 from perception, 3 from strength) and a 22-point defensive bonus (15 from agil, 7 from speed).

                        This 47 point swing is large, but was (on my opinion) a very fair difference between a deeply invested paid account and a freebie.

                        Now though, dex and agil based builds can likely get around another +20-30 points into that swing while only suffering a slight loss in max strength (nimble feet + steady hands + finesse). Effectively doubling the disparity.

                        Can't wait to get my vet package for all my char deaths now :/

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                        • #27
                          My problem has been fixed now. Ty Sceadu
                          .

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                          • #28
                            Holy ereal...

                            Agility: phenomenal Appearance: slightly below average
                            Charisma: very poor Dexterity: incredible
                            Empathy: poor Endurance: outstanding
                            Judgement: slightly below average Memory: slightly below average
                            Perception: phenomenal Reasoning: below average
                            Speed: extraordinary Strength: outstanding
                            .

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Syden View Post
                              Holy ereal...

                              Agility: phenomenal Appearance: slightly below average
                              Charisma: very poor Dexterity: incredible
                              Empathy: poor Endurance: outstanding
                              Judgement: slightly below average Memory: slightly below average
                              Perception: phenomenal Reasoning: below average
                              Speed: extraordinary Strength: outstanding
                              Good God

                              is Phenom or incredible higher? Word-wise I'd think Phenominal, but your stats make me think Incredible is higher.

                              and if the thresholds are the same at those levels between words... do you seriously have 260+ dexterity???

                              that's a +50 to hit over stat skills lol

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                              • #30
                                Incredible is higher

                                Outstanding
                                Remarkable
                                Extraordinary
                                Phenomenal
                                Incredible
                                .

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