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  • Footshot

    Are we serious?

    Im assuming this is to combat pc bandits but what about when fighting NPCs? Archers need to kite...
    .

  • #2
    Just to clarify I know very little of archery. Except that pulling arrows sucks. I had no hand in getting things changed not really sure what it is except it pins you to the ground. No idea how many paces you have to be to do it
    blank kills you with blank's bare hands.
    You are slain.

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    • #3
      I haven't been around for a while, so pardon me if there are already some posts out there on this topic: Does a character still need 4 attacks through which to rotate in order to maximize SP gain? Would this change to Footshot influence an archer's ability to train effectively?
      [color=dark yellow]Verbal Crushings[/color]
             &nbsp ;[color=dark yellow]Now Serving #[/color][color=royal blue]7[/color]


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      • #4
        From what I can tell, rotations are important for archers. This quite possibly might effect SP gain.
        This is obviously an attempt to combat PC archers. if real life ergonomics were taken into consideration, many of the moves in the game wouldn't be very feasible. Spear impale? Yeah, alright.
        I can understand the difficulty in trying to keep the game balanced, especially when it comes to PvP scenarios which are generally very high stakes.
        The concerns raised are valid. Since arguing 'realism' was never really going to work for anyone, would it be possible to only add this change to PvP situations? Allow archers to foot shot from a pace away. Training as an archer is hard enough as it is without you taking one of our few methods of kiting NPCs

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        • #5
          Perhaps this is considered more of a balance thing than a realism thing after all.

          As it stands now, archers will sit in berserk from a pace or two away and pepper a foe with arrows because most foes without a shield have no realistic chance of defending against a good archer. Even folks with shields must be in wary or defensive to stop one.

          Consider also that every other combat skillset requires CMs to be effective. Some require shields, some require a style, and some arguably require brawling also. But at minimum it takes two sets. Archery requires one if you plan on being at range.

          Now consider an archer with CMs in melee range. Obviously they will be at a disadvantage, but they are not a lamb to the slaughter. Footshot, fallback, run and shoot. NPCs are generally pretty stupid and weak vs missiles and the PVP element could be very fluid, just like a normal non-archery fight has been.

          Some tweaking obviously might need to be done still, but given how receptive the GMs have been lately to suggestions, I imagine a data-based argument could sway them.

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          • #6
            Very few moves would survive the test of realism.

            If you play an archer character that is well rounded with CM's and Brawling, then this change is not a world ender. Headshot still works and is pretty damn lethal.
            Tale responds from afar, "Decided to give out t-shirts to all the people I murder. Three so far. This way you can all say, "Tale murdered me! .....and all I got was this stupid t-shirt!!""

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            • #7
              Between headshot and handshot, Archery is far from crippled. Footshot now becomes either a defensive measure for when they get to close so you can retreat again, or a point-blank utility. Personally I would like to see arrows only "Stick" when both are true: 1) critical hit and 2) armor doesn't completely stop it. But hey I I've only tried archers a couple times

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              • #8
                Now I have to add my 2 sens. Here's the issue I have with this: it just stinks of crap. This 'nerf' doesn't -critically- affect Archery...no. But it's also not a -constructive- change by any means at all. I mean, if you're going to alter/change something, make it useful eh?

                Basically, this change was made because of the 'angle' at which you'd be shooting would be 'odd'? Maybe I'm a broken record, but when did 'realism' become a thing in this game?
                "...only you can prevent forest fires" The Legendary Smokey the Bear

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                • #9
                  This change makes it even more challenging for an archer to train. In hunting grounds, where NPCs are programmed to chase you, Footshot was helpful in slowing a mob down. Now that the shot can't be used at distance, the archer is constantly on the run, and a training cycle takes much, much longer.

                  Although I applaud the effort at a more realistic representation, perhaps the change could be complemented by another sub that embraces the spirit of giving the archer the ability to knock-down/pin a target at range - perhaps a shin/knee/thigh/groin shot?

                  Off topic - do GMs read @feedbacks any more, or just the @reports?
                  [color=dark yellow]Verbal Crushings[/color]
                         &nbsp ;[color=dark yellow]Now Serving #[/color][color=royal blue]7[/color]


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                  • #10
                    My only archer is played like an hour a month so this doesn't effect me but I do get annoyed with "realism" being the stated factor in certain changes. I don't many people that would have arteries slashed or almost lose an eye and then win a fight and be fine after being stitched. RP being mandatory and everything is great but an rpg can't really be realistic.

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                    • #11
                      You know what the real problem with complaining about the change to footshot? It doesn't affect your ability to train at all, archers are the only combat class that can train on a "practice dummy" in the form of an archery target, forever. There's zero risk involved in training archery, and now you're complaining that there's SOME risk involved in using archery.... whiners.

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                      • #12
                        Have you ever played an archer? Have you tried to fight in a hunting ground with one? The whole idea is to kite the enemy down not to be a close combat character.


                        .

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                        • #13
                          Yes, I have played an archer, and yes, I have used one in a hunting ground. I don't anymore, because I didn't enjoy it. I've done it, so I have some experience with what I'm talking about. Archers are the only combat class that whines when SOME risk is introduced, into their zero risk lives, because they're the only ones who can fight someone, who's not in the same room as them, without throwing away their weapon to do so. And again, I'm commenting on the fact that people are complaining about how it's harder to TRAIN... it doesn't impact your ability to train at all... you can continue to use an archery target till you're blue in the face, and have unlimited combat ranks. It alters your ability to hunt, very slightly, giving other people a chance to actually do something back... so, whiners.

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                          • #14
                            I've learned reading this that 9/10 Archmagi's hate archers.
                            Your regular combat character can stay on the island/sewers/pits and get a billion ranks too, doesn't make it very fun.Your argument encourages shooting an inanimate object and discourages player interaction.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by The_thief View Post
                              Your argument encourages shooting an inanimate object and discourages player interaction.
                              This ^^^^
                              I would really like to see a more open interaction between players and GMs BEFORE and after combat changes. BRP should still exist. I would like to see a more active role in combat balancing than simply 'Nerfing the moves people complain about most'

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