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  • Increase Spawn Rate = Encourage Group Hunting

    Not fun to go very many places as a group to hunt, as the spawn rate most everywhere is too slow. Would like to see spawn rate in hunting areas increase - perhaps corresponding to PC's numbers and tier level. We find ourselves sitting around, scratching our butts in many places - this encourages us to simply go solo. As this is an interactive multi-player game, you'd think collaborative efforts would be encouraged.

    And yes, we do use those slow periods to chit chat and "RP." (Pretty tired of having the same old "wow, slow day today," conversation, though.) Games should scale with their player population - that's why subscription games continuously release content, expansion packs, etc. and continuously provide content that is a challenge to its players, provides new goals, and encourages grouping.

    Increasing the spawn rate in the 'hard' places would be the simplest, lowest hanging fruit to address the above issue.

    Have sent in multiple suggestions (of varied complexity) about tweaking hunting areas to be more challenging and group oriented over the years, but I've never gotten a response to them. Do these forums still work?

  • #2
    I do like the idea. It seems like the code is already in place for this since the arena works similar.
    At a certain rank total, you get two gladiators instead of one.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Elowynn View Post
      As this is an interactive multi-player game, you'd think collaborative efforts would be encouraged.
      That's what I like about GM-created mass attacks (brawlers all over the Forum, bandits storming the PG, etc.) Nearly everyone gets involved in fighting, dragging people to safety, etc.

      Anything that brings people together - whether it's increased spawn rate or on-the-fly invasions - is desirable in my book.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by GinaDana View Post

        That's what I like about GM-created mass attacks (brawlers all over the Forum, bandits storming the PG, etc.) Nearly everyone gets involved in fighting, dragging people to safety, etc.

        Anything that brings people together - whether it's increased spawn rate or on-the-fly invasions - is desirable in my book.
        Yes. I'd like to see people "need" each other. Right now, day to day, I see about half the population never need anyone to go anywhere, do anything, they'd like. As there isn't enough GM-power, apparently, to have continuous mini crisis events, tweaking hunting areas to be more challenging and requiring players to need one another to go to the 'hard' places = this is just logic and keeps this game up to pace with how other subscription games continuously bump levels and goals.

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        • #5
          Other than the Traevant, where bandits will constantly spawn, arent the other area's set up the same?
          "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Kered View Post
            Other than the Traevant, where bandits will constantly spawn, arent the other area's set up the same?
            Only areas with constant spawns for big groups tends to be BHC officer area and Traevant (Keeping in mind when people hunt Traevant it tends to be for RP reasons. Not the best hunting ground for anything else.. really). Ravanite tunnels, Franlius Docks can get pretty dull. Places with the Step gardens seem to have a certain number of groups limit in place too. So, if two people split up there one person gets all the spawns typically and the other one gets nothing.

            This change is actually pretty necessary.

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            • #7
              The number of spawned bad-guys in a group can easily be changed in outdoor wilderness settings (aka, basically, areas where you can forage for something with an outdoorsie skill, or an area that small non-violent animals spawn based on season and time of day), like the forest areas. But that would also mean it would become even more dangerous to the woodsmen and women that live and work in them.

              Doing that in 'indoor' or 'urban' environment hunting areas is problematic, as that uses a completely different system to spawn things - one that spawns them one at a time. This is why the Cinerans auto-group with the leaders in their respective areas before continuing to wander - it's an attempt to help that limited system become more group-oriented as time passes.

              The hunting area with the highest spawn rate in the game is, to be frank, a breeding ground for scripters trying to maximize their min-gains. It's used almost exclusively by soloing scripters. When the difficulty was changed, they simply raised the blocks and dodges that benefit them in that one area, as well as their fastest attack and returned.

              Even Franlius, where we've said time and time and time again that it is a group area, people regularly find ways to solo it...and then scream and rage about how unfair the POW system is. Something I had to "fix" so that the anti-social people can eventually free themselves without outside help so that Skotos stops being flooded with "This is BS! The GMs are doing this because they just don't like me! I'm rage-quitting and you won't get my money anymore!" types of emails. Even though you cannot be taken prisoner if there are other PCs in the area. Aka, making it a group hunting area if you want to minimize your risk.

              We've tried a myriad of ways to give benefits to groups, restrict soloing specific areas, prevent farming/scripting in areas where people are at 0-risk, provide interesting challenges and dangers that simply having another person there allow you to overcome....and literally all of them have been met with sarcasm, disdain, and complaints. Because at the end of the day, the playerbase isn't at a size to support anything but regular solo play, and a good portion of the current player base might like the sound of group-combat, but those who seem to prefer being able to do everything by themselves are by far the ones who give the loudest and most persistent feedback.

              We are, however, still hopeful, and open to ideas. Feel free to @request in the Idea /Suggestion category to send us your group-combat area ideas.
              Game Master Tale
              Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

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              • #8
                Is there some way to make it so that some combat areas are *only* available to groups? Mechanically, someone has to be following someone else to enter? In terms of realism/echoes, the system could give an echo about there being a gap and a human chain has to be formed, one person has to give another a leg up and then get pulled up, etc.

                I can submit that as a suggestion, but thought the PB might want to kick it around here first.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by GinaDana View Post
                  Is there some way to make it so that some combat areas are *only* available to groups? Mechanically, someone has to be following someone else to enter? In terms of realism/echoes, the system could give an echo about there being a gap and a human chain has to be formed, one person has to give another a leg up and then get pulled up, etc.

                  I can submit that as a suggestion, but thought the PB might want to kick it around here first.
                  Heh, the sale of body guards would go up until interest in the new area fades and Constables/Soldiers would have a leg-up, as they can command certain NPCs to follow them. Even if we could code around that and keep it IC, what would happen if you went with a friend and they fell asleep? Would you have to leave? Could you leave? Even if that is sorted, people could just stand there and idle until someone else happened by, group to enter, and then disban to solo their own corners. Or if it's just 'you need someone to give you a boost' into the area initially, someone would inevitably idle there and boost people up so they can go solo for a nominal fee. :-p
                  Game Master Tale
                  Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad. Creativity is putting tomatoes in a fruit salad to make mango salsa. Philosophy is wondering if that means ketchup is actually a smoothie. Common Sense is knowing that no, ketchup is not a smoothie.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tale View Post

                    Heh, the sale of body guards would go up until interest in the new area fades and Constables/Soldiers would have a leg-up, as they can command certain NPCs to follow them. Even if we could code around that and keep it IC, what would happen if you went with a friend and they fell asleep? Would you have to leave? Could you leave?
                    All true points. Could limit it to just PCs. As far as someone sleeping - the exit could be different from the entrance (have to boost them up a cliff, they roll down the cliff on the way out).

                    Some people are always going to zombie script, but I hate the idea that we are limited to the lowest common denominator.
                    Originally posted by Tale View Post
                    Even if that is sorted, people could just stand there and idle until someone else happened by, group to enter, and then disban to solo their own corners. Or if it's just 'you need someone to give you a boost' into the area initially, someone would inevitably idle there and boost people up so they can go solo for a nominal fee. :-p
                    At least they'd be interacting? Kudos to an entrepreneur?

                    There will never be a perfect solution, but perhaps we could get closer to a *better* one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Tale View Post
                      The number of spawned bad-guys in a group can easily be changed in outdoor wilderness settings (aka, basically, areas where you can forage for something with an outdoorsie skill, or an area that small non-violent animals spawn based on season and time of day), like the forest areas. But that would also mean it would become even more dangerous to the woodsmen and women that live and work in them.
                      Then don't do those.

                      Originally posted by Tale View Post
                      Doing that in 'indoor' or 'urban' environment hunting areas is problematic, as that uses a completely different system to spawn things - one that spawns them one at a time. This is why the Cinerans auto-group with the leaders in their respective areas before continuing to wander - it's an attempt to help that limited system become more group-oriented as time passes.
                      What's problematic? I'm not pretending to understand the coding. If the spawn can be adjusted for the PCs within it for the arena, can the same be done for the Docks?


                      Originally posted by Tale View Post
                      The hunting area with the highest spawn rate in the game is, to be frank, a breeding ground for scripters trying to maximize their min-gains. It's used almost exclusively by soloing scripters. When the difficulty was changed, they simply raised the blocks and dodges that benefit them in that one area, as well as their fastest attack and returned.
                      I didn't ask for that particular area to have spawn increased. I am specifically discussing the combat areas that are supposed to be "hard." That's the Franlius Docks, the Ravanite tunnels, perhaps the Ravines, and perhaps the Worm Temple.

                      Even of those, there's actually nowhere "hard" to go for a group of 2-3 top tier fighters. What ends up happening is Elowynn looks at Kabar, then at Hizerimus, and eenie-meenie-meinie-moes which friend she likes best right now. El ends up not being able to invite both, because then the Docks are boring. Sorry, Hizerimus - go sit this one out. Sorry, Kyrah and Velger - the addition of the two of you is overkill, there's nowhere in Franlius for a group of us to hunt together. God forbid Syden shows up and wants to hang out. A group of 5-6 hunters most likely can't even enter the same places in Franlius, and if we all go the Docks, we should bring something to whittle while we wait.

                      This seems extremely incongruous for "the battlefield front," which should be catering to group-combat Legionaries putting forth collaborative effort. I mean - one of the only (or the only) fun PVE things in this game is group combat and seeing how well you can work your style with that of your group's - and unless you're in the 1-3k ranks range, there's nowhere for El (or Ciaran, or Kabar, or the other half of the game) to go do that.

                      Am I asking for El's comfort and convenience? No. I'm asking so that she has any reason at all to invite more than one person. Personally, I suppose I've long since become comfortable having El hang out by herself. But honestly, this seems a damn shame for a multi-player with such a small playerbase already.

                      Originally posted by Tale View Post
                      Even Franlius, where we've said time and time and time again that it is a group area, people regularly find ways to solo it...and then scream and rage about how unfair the POW system is. Something I had to "fix" so that the anti-social people can eventually free themselves without outside help so that Skotos stops being flooded with "This is BS! The GMs are doing this because they just don't like me! I'm rage-quitting and you won't get my money anymore!" types of emails. Even though you cannot be taken prisoner if there are other PCs in the area. Aka, making it a group hunting area if you want to minimize your risk.
                      Saying that Franlius is a group hunting area doesn't make it so. You can go with a group of 2-3 max, and that depends entirely on your skill level and that of your friends'. But mostly, it's far more "efficient" and "less boring" to go alone or, tops, one friend.

                      Who is screaming about an unfair POW system? I loved the introduction of it - and I rather love it a bit more before it became possible to free oneself. I feel like you've gone on a tangent that has nothing to do with what's being suggested here. Nevertheless - with or without the POW system, Franlius is easily soloable.

                      Originally posted by Tale View Post
                      We've tried a myriad of ways to give benefits to groups, restrict soloing specific areas, prevent farming/scripting in areas where people are at 0-risk, provide interesting challenges and dangers that simply having another person there allow you to overcome....and literally all of them have been met with sarcasm, disdain, and complaints. Because at the end of the day, the playerbase isn't at a size to support anything but regular solo play, and a good portion of the current player base might like the sound of group-combat, but those who seem to prefer being able to do everything by themselves are by far the ones who give the loudest and most persistent feedback.

                      We are, however, still hopeful, and open to ideas. Feel free to @request in the Idea /Suggestion category to send us your group-combat area ideas.
                      People don't script in the Docks or Ravanite Tunnels, do they? Why? Because the mobs are too hard to script safely. A coma, or crawling out of the sewer with broken limbs, is embarrassing - not to mention, bad for a scripter's fatigue bar. The "scripty places" are elsewhere for reasons, and those aren't just because of the spawn rate. And at no point did I suggest those places need spawn rate increased. It's the "hard" places such as the Docks and Ravanite Tunnels that need it, so that it's actually fun to go there with your friends, plural.

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                      • #12
                        Boss mobs seems to be one way to encourage group fighting. I know Kabar -can- fight and kill some boss mobs by himself, but not all of the, and certainly not with a posse of underlings with them.

                        Franlius is an issue. I recall at every tier of Franlius, a group of two was ideal. Anything more and you had to wait a good bit between spawns unless five magically spawned on you at once. Every wing there is like that.

                        The Ravanite Tunnels can be very exciting and dangerous if you get ambushed by a big group and a couple boss mobs thrown in there. The east side doesn't seem to have regular boss mobs but as I said, boss mobs tend to get people to do one of three things.

                        Find a partner
                        Think outside of the box
                        Run.

                        Increase boss mob spawns in "hard" hunting areas.

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                        • #13
                          Yes, increase boss mob spawns in 'Hard' hunting areas so the botters have something more to kill off while they sleeping!
                          I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.
                          Steven Hawkings

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                          • #14
                            A huge Cineran marine is not going to be solo botted. Nor is a group of 6 brawlers with a boss mob thrown in. Did you even read it?

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                            • #15
                              Sorry Matt..your toon might not be able to bot the docks. But pretty sure I can rattle off a half dozen other folks who's toons can. Including the one who started this post.
                              I think computer viruses should count as life. I think it says something about human nature that the only form of life we have created so far is purely destructive. We've created life in our own image.
                              Steven Hawkings

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