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Talk about RL and OOC when thieving.

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  • Talk about RL and OOC when thieving.

    [Success: 1, Roll: 64] You quietly and easily cut the strap on a small leather
    pouch worn soft and dark by years of handling and lift it gently away from a
    patrician without drawing attention to yourself.

    According to this text, there is no reason that player Constable could walk in and see me standing near a patrician in a crowd, and suspect that I've stolen from him, because according to this text, I didn't draw any attention to myself.

    Secondly, the fact a patrician is pulled out of the crowd; is merely in relation to my view (or, ought to be role-played as such...)

    I selected the patrician, to focus on him, as one man out of an entire crowd.....

    Just because I happen to be standing near him, (having nothing visible in my hands)

    You walk in, and see me standing near a patrician...

    it's totally OOC to just assume i'm a pickpocket, when you have seen no pouch in my hand, no blade, and no reasonable suspicion at all..

    Seeing as I drew no attention to myself.

    It's kind of OOC to see a Patrician pulled out of the crowd; (who pulled it out of the crowd? Honestly the mechanic is jacked up.... because it shouldn't show you who I pull or select out of a crowd... how would you know who I selected out of a crowd? before I approach him, or after I have faded away from him and wake away a pace.. How would you know I had once set my eyes upon a man a pace away?)

    So.. It shouldn't even show you who I pull out of a crowd, unless I attack him and he screams, or I draw attention to myself by failing to lift.

    The NPC should be invisible to everyone else in game, according to RL game mechanics.
    In a thick crowd, everyone is thronging one another, and I set my eyes upon a patrician (pull him out of a crowd, or select him out of a crowd) to perform my stealthy non-combat manuevers on...

    and I do it, without drawing any attention to myself.


    What's up?

    We got Archmagi talking about RL Short bow Damage, well let's talk about RL.... I drew no attention to myself.

  • #2
    To continue my rant....

    I really hate when I have walked a pace away; there is no patrician pulled out of the crowd (in the pace that i'm standing in)

    I lifted a pouch from a patrician a few paces away, or a pace away; without drawing any attention to myself..

    And a constable comes in the room, and immediately arrests me because of an NPC that is (Pulled out of a crowd) a pace away... (who doesn't even know I stole his pouch) and the Constable wasn't even in the room or pace to see me, at the time I was in that pace......

    How the hell do you know that I selected him out of the crowd, to do non-combat manuevers to (ICLY speaking)

    It's an OOC mechanical error that you even know I selected him out of the crowd.

    he never screamed or anything, and the game says, I drew no attention to myself.

    It's ooc bs really... NPC's that you pull out of a crowd for non-combat maneuvers should be invisible to everyone else in the game, exept for you alone, unless you fail and draw attention to yourself; then they should become visible in the gameworld; because they stand out of the crowd at that time to everyone else.

    before we get retards talking about RL Short bow damage, let's talk about RL "Drew no attention to yourself"



    • #3
      If you as a constable, walk into a pace where you see a patrician standing there in a thick crowd...

      (who, I had selected as a target to perform manuevers on, and i drew no attention to myself and moved into the next pace, leaving this target behind)

      You walk into the room, and see my target in a thick crowd...

      Icly speaking...

      There's no way you know he's been stolen from... He hasn't screamed. He hasn't said anything.

      You don't know that he was suppose to have a pouch on him, as long as he hasn't said anything...

      And why the heck, of all the people in a crowd, you happen to see this patrician, would you even begin to talk to him, and ask him if he's had his pouch missing today?

      ICly speaking... you see a patrician in a thick crowd as you walk into the pace I just left...

      there's nothing out of the ordinary...

      I dont want to hear any more B.S. about how Two-handed swords are not real for the roman times, and how RL short bow damage would make IG short bow damage suck...

      When no body gives a truck, about the oocness of the current system, where people drawn out of a crowd for theiving manuevers, are visible to others who just walked into the pace, where I already walked out of.


      • #4
        no one really gives a crap about RL or OOC ..... they just use RL when they want a weapon they have problems being beaten up with nerfed... or some other lame motivation i'm sure....

        But if you guys can't get in line with this... above post.... then dont give me your hypocritical cares about RL and IC / OOC because I dont want to hear it.


        • #5
          p.s. I had some good ideas on my 4th comment in my cut and lift post.... about coin sharpening, palming, handoff and receive... and cut and lift, to make them not only rank 1 skills that require no training past that, and have no real benefits past that.


          • #6
            Easy FIX....

            If I pull someone out of a crowd, that person should be invisible to everyone else in the game because I have merely (selected them with my eyes, at a target) that's all I've done.

            What I'm thinking in my head, and looking at with my eyes, regarding the personal property of a character in a crowd of many, thronging against one another... in a thick crowd.....

            when I choose one as a target.... Until he screams or draws attention to himself....

            He in no way whatsoever should be "pulled out" or "selected" to you or anyone else in the gameworld.

            There might be a small chance, that we happen to be looking at the same person, at the same time, in a thick crowd.....

            If there's 100 people in there, and there's 1 constable walk in... there's a 3 and 100 chance, that he's looking at someone else right now, other than me and my target.

            So.. I highly doubt he's going to notice me. I'm in a thick freaking crowd.

            I have (pulled out) which really means, selected, a person among the crowd for (MY PURPOSES)

            Not yours... so you shouldn't even know I've selected him, or set my eyes upon him, and if I happen to be walking near somebody in a thick crowd... or if I be right up against someone... it's nothing out of the ordinary..

            The real problem is the (Pull out of the crowd) mechanic, that makes the selected target visible to every player in the room... that broken mechanic, is what makes it ooc.... because the moment I as a thief, choose a victim by targeting him (pulling him out)

            OOCLY, every player in the room, knows who I just targeted, because he has become visible to every person in the room.

            Perhaps, the gm's could make 2 commands...

            Look for <target> and Select <target> So that, the look for command is for roleplaying purposes, when you want everyone to see who you've selected..

            and select <target> is stealthy, and unless I fumble my manuevers, and draw attention to myself, by failing to lift, or failing to fade.... then only I the selecter, know who i've selected.

            If you wanted to make is Really really RL... you could give a Success : Roll for Select <target>

            and give a setups skill, that lets you select a target ,without being noticed by others in the room (so that this target is not pulled out of the crowd, visible for everyone in the room)

            because I agree... if there's 100 people in a room... Me, my target, a constable, and 97 other possible people the constable could be looking at, or who could be blocking the view between me and my victim, and the constable's sight of me messing with that victims pouch...

            when I select someone to do manuevers to.... there's like 97% chance you're not looking at me and my target.

            So... it shouldn't take many ranks to select a target without anyone in the room noticing who you've selected..

            Lol, so screw the setups skill just give me a select command.


            • #7

              You spot a patrician within the crowd.

              *Notice it says "you" spot, not every player in the pace spots a patrician... but -you- spot a patrician.

              other players, are looking other places, having other things in mind.... some might be looking at a pretty woman walking by, some might be gazing at the sky....

              its a thick crowd...

              so when I choose a target out of a crowd.... you shouldn't know that I've spotted him...

              and when I use skills like, street approach, cut and lift (with people standing all around me, in a crowd) and you're on the opposite side of the crowd, totally unable to see through the thickness of bodies; me in the middle of a group of bodies...

              and I fade away....

              AT LEAST...

              We can agree, if I lifted a pouch unseen and leave the pace, and you walk into the pace behind me that I just left....

              there's no way for you to know.....

              maybe if you were in the pace when I did it... you might have a 2% chance of looking at me in a room of 100... since you are the 3rd person in the room, and that leaves 97 other people to look at....

              So, I'll give you a 2% chance to see the patrician visibly standing in the pace ,when I spot him in the crowd...

              That's about it.

              Rant over.. I feel better.


              • #8
                You will have an easier time learning to work with the realities of the game than a) trying to convince others to play dumb about what they know about the game or b) trying to get GM's to change the game so it coincides with your interpretation of realism. Don't forget the constable player has his take on what realistically happened. Possibly, he walks into a forum and sees a patrician who is missing a pouch. He looks around and sees someone with a criminal record.

                What's said about classic Dungeons and Dragon applies here -- it's a game of our collective imaginations. Every player plays out a scene a little differently in their mind. Where our imaginary worlds meet is what scrolls across the screen. You're not really playing a co-operative game if you're going to ignore what's on the screen or expect others to.


                • #9
                  "You lift a pouch without drawing any attention to yourself"

                  I rest my case.

                  Ok, your fake fake scenario.... "Perhaps he sees a patrician missing a pouch"

                  How the hell did the constable know, the patrician was supposed to be wearing a pouch that day? How the hell did he know he was missing a pouch? Not even the patrician knows he's missing a pouch...

                  You walk into a pace, you see a patrician wearing a toga, and a belt... in realisticly; whether he has a pouch or not, if he's not complaining, is no thought a rl person would have about a patrician he just saw for the first time...

                  It's ooc to notice he's missing his pouch, if he hasn't said anything... you dont know if he was wearing a pouch that day or not ICly speaking.

                  So, your scenario to me is moot, and you have no good argument. My argument is solid.

                  Also, remember if there is 100 people in the room, there is a 1% chance out of the 100 people, when a player contable walks in to a pace, that he will see 99 other people, before he sees this one patrician, who I just stole his pouch...

                  The chance of taking notice of him at all, in reality; is unrealistic.


                  • #10
                    I think Constables, should practically ignore "Patricians" that I pulled out of a crowd, and I left the pace, and they enter into the pace that i'm not in, and the patrician who I selected a pace back; for them to take notice of that patrician of all the people in the crowd...

                    every time, 100% of the time, is OOC and unrealistic.

                    I dont think you comprehended the earlier pages of rant I ranted about.


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by yezrah7 View Post
                      I think Constables, should practically ignore "Patricians" that I pulled out of a crowd, and I left the pace, and they enter into the pace that i'm not in, and the patrician who I selected a pace back; for them to take notice of that patrician of all the people in the crowd...

                      every time, 100% of the time, is OOC and unrealistic.

                      I dont think you comprehended the earlier pages of rant I ranted about.
                      I don't think you comprehend how little everyone cares.
                      Tale responds from afar, "Decided to give out t-shirts to all the people I murder. Three so far. This way you can all say, "Tale murdered me! .....and all I got was this stupid t-shirt!!""


                      • #12
                        No, I comprehend that. I just want to point out the hypocrisy of you wanna-be "roleplayers" who always cry "RL" "RL"

                        On other things, but when it comes down to real RL mechanics on issues that aren't in your favor...

                        No crying RL RL anymore.


                        • #13
                          Fel, if you ever want to use the excuse or argument "RL" or "OOC" to defend against actions done against you.

                          slap yourself

                          Because nobody cares.


                          • #14
                            You're not going to make friends very fast with this attitude.


                            • #15
                              I'm only mirroring him. He said, nobody cares, when I cry ooc, so let no body care when he cries ooc.

                              I'm just putting in his face, what he put in my face.