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Talk about RL and OOC when thieving.

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  • #46
    You know, this whole threads point is generally that ooc mechanics exist due to npcs not having the free will to react the same way as a pc would, and as such is violating how "real life" would work, just a bit, to make it possible to do anything about the ooc thief who steals from npcs rather than pcs, because npcs don't call for help.

    So, yes, certain aspects of the game are ooc, but this doesn't limit the ability to base things that are supposed to be based on real life things, like short bows, after their real life counterpart... and to base other things like magic, on just the fact that it's a game.
    Many things are just game related, like pulling someone from a crowd, and robbing them blind, and getting away with it.
    If you'd like to make it more like real life, we can permanently delete the crowds, and make it so that there are no npcs you can steal from, so that you'd not have bots roaming around to practice on, and then you could steal from pcs, and claim innocence when they call you out. And wind up dead, instead of in jail. Then you could complain about the pcs being ooc and knowing that you stole from them, because you "got away clean" because you rolled high enough.

    You can't rob someone from stealth, so, you're not invisible. Not to mention, the crowd of hundreds of people, are considered to be moving along, you standing in one game room, is not, moving along, so you stand out. just like when someone pulls someone from a crowd, they stop moving along, and stand out.


    • #47
      Originally posted by yezrah7 View Post
      Fel, if you ever want to use the excuse or argument "RL" or "OOC" to defend against actions done against you.

      slap yourself

      Because nobody cares.
      Oh ok, thanks for informing me about what I can and can't do on an old text based online game.

      Glad to have you on the TEC Staff Team.
      Tale responds from afar, "Decided to give out t-shirts to all the people I murder. Three so far. This way you can all say, "Tale murdered me! .....and all I got was this stupid t-shirt!!""


      • #48
        I think yezrah7 is the chosen one, he is managing to combine a fractured player base against one common foe..
        Tale responds from afar, "Decided to give out t-shirts to all the people I murder. Three so far. This way you can all say, "Tale murdered me! .....and all I got was this stupid t-shirt!!""


        • #49
          This thread is a shame because it's a missed opportunity to discuss how to improve the PP skillset given how many people have responded to the ranting.
          <Tivan thinks aloud: No offense, I'd rather take it from behind by an eyeless humanoid from twilight...guess I'll get them myself.>

          Haggard squeaks to MindThrasher, "My only regret about lanc that Kjel was at the toga.."

          Fidellus whispers something to Lucarnes.
          Carefully reading his lips, you make out the words "I liked it, but I have a thing for blondes in catholic school girl skirts

          A woman in a slinky red nightgown flirts to you, "Bears are repulsive."


          • #50
            The reason the system exists as it does is because otherwise, there would be no penalty for using PP mechanics on NPC's. It's a necessary place hold for better mechanics that don't exist, that provides an element of danger to an otherwise illegal trade.

            I would think a simple solution here, would be to exchange the visibility of NPC's pulled from the crowd for NPC's having their own defensive options and not having to rely on a thief rolling too low or a PC coming along and connecting the dots. Why do patricians walk around alone, anyways? They should be attended by people.. guards, handlers, scribes. This should be reflected in your success, the skills you use to do the job, etc. choose to ground approach instead of regular approach and the next action against the NPC isn't hit with a penalty. Choose to cut and lift instead of slice sack, the next action isn't hit with a penalty. Choose to fade instead of fall back or retreat, and the guard doesn't notice you on the way out.

            Could even expand on it further, and introduce 'boss' type targets. Super wealthy patricians surrounded by entourages that are incredibly difficult to get near, or traders transporting expensive goods across city by cart down main streets. maybe even require cooperation among multiple thieves with skills like draw attention.

            Kill two birds with one stone. Give thieves more meat to bite into with their skills and a reason to actually train them for more than bragging rights, while improving an ancient and universally disliked mechanic.
            Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
            I thought it was just a rumor that it was all number-crunching and competitive training in a game with no logical endpoint since characters are ostensibly immortal and can always get better.

            You mean it's true?
            Originally posted by Phwoar
            Maybe I'm just becoming some tea-sipping hippy, or maybe I'm sour because my main uses cesti, but, why sacrifice a character idea for the sake of some hypothetical edge in some imagined combat situation in the distant future?
            Originally posted by Elowynn
            Rupert is like the Snowden champion of TEC.


            • #51
              Oh, Rupert, I've missed you.


              • #52
                I like what Rupert had to say.


                • #53
                  My main complaint is, lifting a pouch without drawing any attention to yourself, and going a pace away....

                  and because of mechanics, that the patrician is pulled out of the crowd....
                  and because I'm a player thus, pulled out of the crowd...

                  a player constable, can see immediately, the patrician and thief; without doing any real roleplaying or investigation, or anything real at all..

                  it's unreal to walk into a room with a thick crowd, notice a guy missing a pouch, walk down the hallway and pick the thief out of the crowd instantly.... with no information to go on..

                  you dont know what the theif looks like, you dont know who stole it...

                  It's just the ooc mechanic that the thief is pullled out of the crowd... and the patrician too... that allows you to walk in, see a patrician without a pouch, and then see the thief in an instant.... everytime,with 100% accuracy...

                  it's just unrealistic....

                  Let's play a real life scenario, pretend that the patrician noticed...

                  He begins to make a scene, "My pouch is missing!" As he notices it missing. By chance, that he went to feel and it wasn't there.

                  A constable walks in and says "Any clue who might have stolen it?"

                  The thief, who drew no attention to himself, is now a pace away; about 70 feet away; mixed in with a thick crowd.....

                  The constable with no clues to go on... .scans north, scans south....

                  Here is what happens IC, and here is what happens OOC.

                  IC : The constables scans around, but with no information about what the thief looks like, (because the thief drew no attention to himself) and no evidence to go on... He shrugs it off, and waits for the thief to get caught in the future another time.

                  OOC: The constable scans north and sees a player in the pace. He knows immediately who stole the pouch, with 100% accuracy.... he has the ability to scan through 200 people and pick 1 guy out of the crowd... and instantly know he did it.. It's miraculous.

                  Do you see? My problem?


                  • #54
                    Everyone understands your problem because we have all been in the same situation as you.


                    • #55
                      Hmm, do go on about the social injustice of this game, the lack of realism argument always works great. You're forgetting that that constable was born into the streets, is extremely perceptive and has caught thousands of thieves, he's obviously the best thief sniffing constable on the planet and you never stood a chance. There's plenty of places to steal from NPCS where you will not bump into another player for hours at a time. Sounds like a lesson well learned.


                      • #56
                        So Constables are even former gang members...
                        Tale responds from afar, "Decided to give out t-shirts to all the people I murder. Three so far. This way you can all say, "Tale murdered me! .....and all I got was this stupid t-shirt!!""


                        • #57

                          I noticed when looking at the crowd at the colosseum "You see a crowd of people standing shoulder-to-shoulder gradually making its way past you."

                          Can you imagine, in a wide broad colosseum hallway; a mass of people so large that they're forced to stand literally "shoulder to shoulder" like sardines in a can.

                          Now, a constable walks into the pace. Unless he's standing shoulder to shoulder with the NPC that I lifted a pouch from last pace I was in...

                          It would be impossible, from any distance of 3feet or more (because, at more than 3foot distance, there is someone else standing between the stolen from character, and the constable; making it impossible for that constable to see the npc)

                          There's a hundred+ people in this pace, they're standing shoulder to shoulder; you couldn't be standing a few people distance away and notice them missing a pouch. IRL.

                          And, yes I'll beat this horse, because this horse isn't dead....

                          If I select one person out of the crowd to work on... How do you know who I have selected as a target?

                          That should be invisible to you; the only way you should see a patrician drawn out of a crowd; is if I approach him, or retreat from him; and during that time frame; you might notice that patrician out of the crowd, but up until then, so far I have simply seen a patrician with my eyes from a distance. There's no way to accuse me of guilt because my eyes have seen a patrician. (yet as soon as I do look for a patrician and spot one with my eyes, mechanically; he's noticeably drawn out of the crowd for everyone to know, i've spotted a patrician.) <<< that's broke.

                          and to say you can see he's missing a pouch when you walk into the room; of a crowd of people standing shoulder to shoulder.... that's impossible.

                          you must have x-ray vision; to see through like 30+ people to the direct patrician missing a pouch out of 10+ patricians in the pace.

                          You'd have to be right up next to him; to look down to see he's missing a pouch.

                          And, since the thief who just left the room, lifted it without being noticed. The patrician didn't scream, nor say he was missing one.

                          You would have to be standing right beside him to notice it. Which is like... impossible, unless you bust through the crowd and start pushing your way to get to him; seeing as he's surrounded like a sardine, by multiple people; shoulder to shoulder.

                          As a thief... I spotted him; and yea I did push through the crowd to get to him; in order to approach him.

                          I think the mechanics should be setup; as soon as you look for a patrician, it gives you a 3 second window to approach him; and then the game mechanics read that you retreat from him; and he instantly gets mixed back into the crowd, as soon as you retreat from him.

                          The only way they should be stuck out of the crowd for a long periods of time; is if they scream because you rolled under success; or if you attacked them.


                          • #58

                            It's possible to be accused or suspected of being a thief, simply for "looking" at a patrician. "You spot a patrician in the crowd"

                            Someone else walks in; How do they know I spotted a patrician in the crowd?

                            Why does this Patrician have a giant red X above his head for every player to see?

                            simply because I spotted him out of the crowd; of many patricians in a giant crowd of people standing shoulder to shoulder.

                            Only during the time you're approached, should he be RED X visible to another player walking into the room.

                            That would be a better mechanic.

                            and even then... what's the chances of you walking in and noticing me standing next to a patrician when i'm surrounded by people shoudler to shoulder?

                            Really the chances are near to none..

                            It's still being generous to say; you notice them pulled out of the crowd; only when I'm approached.

                            And that should be, only if I use a combat approach.

                            It should be possible as a master thief..... to walk the same streets as Players, and lift pouches, and steal from traders; without being seen.

                            Look for patrician (You spot a patrician) {this patrician is one of many in the pace, nothing special to anyone else in the room}

                            if you combat approach; you and him immediately become noticeable to players who walk in....

                            However; with street approach, or ground approach; it should nullify that....

                            and if you combat retreat; he becomes noticable to people in the room.

                            if you fade; he doesn't.

                            But here's the FACTS. I can steal all day long with NPCS in a throng; a multitude and mass; without ever having someone catch my hands; stealing from a man....

                            how come players can see what 1000 other people (npcs) can't see?

                            it's broken...

                            master thieves should be able to steal from npcs and players without being seen; using street, lift, and fade, and no one ever know..... no players should see I spotted someone in the crowd....

                            For example; if there's a Festiv having a show at the Toga, and there's 10,000 players online and they're all at the Toga... and I street approach a trader there, and lift his pouch; and fade unseen... rolling over my success.... I succeed.

                            that's the way it should be.

                            and if you disagree, kiss my hands.


                            • #59
                              You can't steal with 1 player in the room, but you can steal with 1000 npcs in the room?



                              • #60
                                p.s. if slice sack ever gets to be completely unseen with ranks....

                                I"m going to become a constable.... "SIT!" "DONT MOVE" street, slice sack, stow sack, fade...

                                Make yourself passive, so I can search you.

                                Hmm you're not wearing much today.